Top Gun 4K UHD (1986)

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by BDougherty

I watched it on a calibrated LG OLED and thought something seemed off the way the movie looked. I had never seen Top Gun before this viewing, so I can't really compare it to any other transfers

At least it doesn't have the pretty noticeable chroma noise problems of Days of Thunder. I watched it in HDR10 on a Samsung 4k TV where it rears its ugly head in the various background shots and even some foreground images, and then moved over to the DV capable TCL, and most of the noise is gone using the combined FEL Dolby Vision layer.



That sure doesn't help when I have my JVC 4k projector hooked back up because no consumer projector has Dolby Vision as of yet (and more mid to upper end 4k projectors have actual 12 bit video processing that would truly benefit from 12 bit FEL encoded Dolby Vision than flat panel displays, which are mainly 10 bit or 8 bit with dithering), and so you are stuck with the HDR10 core layer with the visible encoding issues.


If Dolby had a DV profile for projector manufacturers by working with them as they did in the Dolby Cinema sphere, that would be wonderful.

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

At least it doesn't have the pretty noticeable chroma noise problems of Days of Thunder. I watched it in HDR10 on a Samsung 4k TV where it rears its ugly head in the various background shots and even some foreground images, and then moved over to the DV capable TCL, and most of the noise is gone using the combined FEL Dolby Vision layer.



That sure doesn't help when I have my JVC 4k projector hooked back up because no consumer projector has Dolby Vision as of yet (and more mid to upper end 4k projectors have actual 12 bit video processing that would truly benefit from 12 bit FEL encoded Dolby Vision than flat panel displays, which are mainly 10 bit or 8 bit with dithering), and so you are stuck with the HDR10 core layer with the visible encoding issues.


If Dolby had a DV profile for projector manufacturers by working with them as they did in the Dolby Cinema sphere, that would be wonderful.

The A5u has DV

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

The A5u has DV

That has not been verified as of yet. The Chinese Changhong company doesn't advertise their laser projectors as having Dolby Vision as such and they have been known to add display menus that look good spec wise, but don't really do anything performance wise.



If it actually had Dolby Vision processing, I would think Dolby would let the world know of the world's first consumer projector with Dolby Vision support.


That was the whole point of Dolby Vision in the first place... HDR grading and performance for cinema projectors.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

The A5u has DV

It did, until it was removed in a firmware update as Dolby de-listed it. Someone could just not run the firmware update and keep it as it is, sure, but "Dolby Vision consumer projectors" are back to square one.

[Schwartzy]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

The 3D?

Havent seen the 3D. Atleast in the 2D version i remember seeing some wierd grain movement

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It did, until it was removed in a firmware update as Dolby de-listed it. Someone could just not run the firmware update and keep it as it is, sure, but "Dolby Vision consumer projectors" are back to square one.

I gotta wonder if Dolby found out that it didn't actually have DV in the first place. Some Chinese firms play fast and loose with their "features." It's the Wild West in tech land there.

[BdoUK]

In the next few months I'm planning to test LLDV with my JVC projector. A good summary of how it works is below:

https://www.hdfury.com/enjoy-dynamic...hdr10-display/

Reports from AVSForum indicate it works very well and is a way to bring dynamic tone mapping to older JVC projectors that don't support it natively. I would assume this would not show the same chroma issues as the HDR10 layer because it's using the DV metadata.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

I gotta wonder if Dolby found out that it didn't actually have DV in the first place. Some Chinese firms play fast and loose with their "features." It's the Wild West in tech land there.

It had to have had some sort of DV tech in there if only to trigger the actual output from the players, whether they obtained it legally or reverse-engineered it is another matter, but the problem with DV in consumer projection still comes down to the fundamental disconnect between the actual projection device and the screen it's being viewed upon, which could be one out of many, all with their different characteristics.

Not that Dolby use their "golden reference" reference any longer as there was too much variance across the same model of TV to bake in just one profiled reference, but they still put in the approximate values of the display device and let it map to that whereas with PJs they just don't know what screen the customer is using. PJs will also get successively darker as the lamps wear out, I do realise that people don't have to change them every five minutes but even so, there's no way of telling the DV mapping to compensate for it.

We have had some ingenious souls spoof the low latency DV mode in supported devices using a HD Fury or whatever to trick the EDID, this basically outputs an HDR12 signal with all the mapping done up-stream by the player, but even that requires a custom profile for some PJs to dial in the correct colourimetry.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by BdoUK

In the next few months I'm planning to test LLDV with my JVC projector. A good summary of how it works is below:

https://www.hdfury.com/enjoy-dynamic...hdr10-display/

Reports from AVSForum indicate it works very well and is a way to bring dynamic tone mapping to older JVC projectors that don't support it natively. I would assume this would not show the same chroma issues as the HDR10 layer because it's using the DV metadata.

The way the core+extension structure works with FEL encoded Dolby Vision, this faked Dolby Vision work around would not reconstruct the 12 bit full enhancement layer and add back what picture information was missing from the HDR10 layer.



For that, you need a licensed Dolby Vision processor on both ends... player AND display.



Since the projector does not contain Dolby Vision processing (and so you only have one part of the two part system), the chroma errors would still be there as you're only dealing with the core layer of the FEL video file structure and the dynamic metadata, not a completely reconstituted 12 bit FEL encode.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The way the core+extension structure works with FEL encoded Dolby Vision, this faked Dolby Vision work around would not reconstruct the 12 bit full enhancement layer and add back what picture information was missing from the HDR10 layer.



For that, you need a licensed Dolby Vision processor on both ends... player AND display.



Since the projector does not contain Dolby Vision processing, the chroma errors would still be there as you're only dealing with the core layer of the FEL video file structure.

No no no, you're missing the point of LLDV. The spoofed player is doing EXACTLY what it would do when attached to an actual low latency DV playback device, it's doing everything upstream including the tone mapping and FEL 12-bit rebuild and all the TV is doing is basically displaying this pre-mapped "HDR12" signal without applying any of its stock tone mapping to it.

That's it as far the low latency display is concerned and that's the whole point, to put all the processing on the player rather than the display, and that's why the DV spoofing for projektors should work just as well in suppressing the chroma compression artefacts. But as I said in my other reply above they may still require a custom profile on the PJ in order to properly display the incoming pre-mapped 12-bit signal.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No no no, you're missing the point of LLDV. The spoofed player is doing EXACTLY what it would do when attached to an actual low latency DV playback device, it's doing everything upstream including the tone mapping and FEL 12-bit rebuild and all the TV is doing is basically displaying this pre-mapped "HDR12" signal without applying any of its stock tone mapping to it.

That's it as far the low latency display is concerned and that's the whole point, to put all the processing on the player rather than the display, and that's why the DV spoofing for projektors should work just as well in suppressing the chroma compression artefacts. But as I said in my other reply above they may still require a custom profile on the PJ in order to properly display the incoming pre-mapped 12-bit signal.

Hmmm... most interesting, if indeed it allows the 12 bit FEL encode to get reconstructed.



I have a JVC 4k projector awaiting my basement remodel and that mod would be most intriguing.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by BdoUK

In the next few months I'm planning to test LLDV with my JVC projector. A good summary of how it works is below:

https://www.hdfury.com/enjoy-dynamic...hdr10-display/

Reports from AVSForum indicate it works very well and is a way to bring dynamic tone mapping to older JVC projectors that don't support it natively. I would assume this would not show the same chroma issues as the HDR10 layer because it's using the DV metadata.

I have a JVC RS440U 4k projector and Oppo 203 (was using the 420 with the JVC due to the HDR tone mapping, but if I can force DV reconstruction I will go back to the 203) and was wondering which HD Fury unit works for this LL DV trick/spoof. They have a few models to choose from. Gracias!

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

I have a JVC RS440U 4k projector and Oppo 203 (was using the 420 with the JVC due to the HDR tone mapping, but if I can force DV reconstruction I will go back to the 203) and was wondering which HD Fury unit works for this LL DV trick/spoof. They have a few models to choose from. Gracias!

"This method can be performed on any HDR10 display using Vertex2/Diva or Maestro. If you own a JVC PJ with custom gamma curve or if you have a PJ that can be manually forced in HDR mode, then you can perform this method using Vertex1, Integral2 and Linker as well."

https://hdfury.com/enjoy-dynamic-dv-...hdr10-display/

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

https://hdfury.com/enjoy-dynamic-dv-...hdr10-display/

Since I only need to trick the LL DV mode of my Oppo 203 to produce a true 12 bit output from FEL encoded discs, the Linker unit is the cheapest option at just shy of $200.



Anybody know if there are any other problems that get introduced using HD Fury's cheapest product?

[Apari]

Looks great, sounds great, but I was hoping for more oomph to the low end. I think it lacks a bit of the thunder it could have at times. I was hoping for the couch to shake more when the planes take off for example.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Apari

Looks great, sounds great, but I was hoping for more oomph to the low end. I think it lacks a bit of the thunder it could have at times. I was hoping for the couch to shake more when the planes take off for example.

Blame the rise in the use of crappy soundbars. It is influencing audio mixing decisions.

[Apari]

Can't really blame the soundbar buyers but if that really drives audio mixing decisions it really sucks, I just hope it isn't so..

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Apari

Can't really blame the soundbar buyers but if that really drives audio mixing decisions it really sucks, I just hope it isn't so..

A top Sony home video exec and engineer was talking to Scott Wilkinson about this very issue on a prior Twit casting of the now retired Home Theater Geeks interview show. This is EXACTLY why some studios neuter their soundtracks during the near-field remix phase. Sony has been trying to resist such a move, but...


This dumbing everything down to the lowest common denominator approach to various things must stop!!! Argh!!

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Blame the rise in the use of crappy soundbars. It is influencing audio mixing decisions.

still, why not put in the oomph? so what if the soundbar won't present the oomph at all, it'll still be there for those with true audio setups

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

still, why not put in the oomph? so what if the soundbar won't present the oomph at all, it'll still be there for those with true audio setups

It would cause distortion or even overload.

What I don't get is why there is no separate soundbar optimized track, leaving the primary soundtrack optimized for high end audio systems.