INCEPTION Review Thread (SPOILERS!!)

[Blu3]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Dude... you do a horrible job in responding to other peoples posts. It looks like you are just highlighting what someone else has said. Then, once reading, it looks like the person you quoted is contradicting themself repeatedly.

When you click on Quote, look at the way the text is wrapped in "[QUOOTE]" and "[/QUOOTE]" minus those extra O's. You really should isolate sections of the post and use those tags. Type your response in between.

I usually do that, separate everything in their own quotes, but these posts are so big and I have a few comments/responses for each paragraph, so I got lazy and decided to embed my responses within the quoted text, highlighting it in bold, instead of breaking it into 20 little quotes and half a page. Oh well. I tried.

Edit: I added my name to each bolded response, so everyone knows who is saying what. Hope that helps.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Blu3

I usually do that, separate everything in their own quotes, but these posts are so big and I have a few comments/responses for each paragraph, so I got lazy and decided to embed my responses within the quoted text, highlighting it in bold, instead of breaking it into 20 little quotes and half a page. Oh well. I tried.

Edit: I added my name to each bolded response, so everyone knows who is saying what. Hope that helps.

lol... it's better I guess.

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

Yes. I will make you cite the script.

[Show spoiler]I'm telling you right now that I never heard Yussuf say that he could control the exponential effects of time in each dream level. And I listened carefully to everything in the film both times I saw it. He never said that he was going to give them a week in the first level. He said that his compound would be strong enough to keep them under all three levels for the duration of what would be a weeks worth of dream time on the first level. That statement was based on a calculation of the regular scale of difference in time to keep them asleep on the plane for a certain duration. He knew that he could keep them asleep on the plane for 'x' amount of time, which would then translate to 1 week in the first level of dreaming.

There seems to be a slight difference in our understanding of what was said. I'm going to try and see it twice (maybe thrice) more times this weekend + Monday. I'm 99% certain though that Yussuf is just doing a calculation based on what everyone already knows about how time is affected by dreaming levels.

You know what? You are not the final official word on 'Inception'. Accept the possibility that you might have missed a detail that someone else picked up. You've been eager enough to dish out "corrections", you should be willing to accept at least a little bit yourself.

Originally Posted by JTStarkiller

But there's plenty of evidence that level 4 IS limbo. I'm not saying it is, but I personally can't figure out if it is or if it isn't.

How about Cobb and Ariadne having a dialogue right before they go there, where they refer to it as limbo? That should be enough evidence.

[JTStarkiller]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

How about Cobb and Ariadne having a dialogue right before they go there, where they refer to it as limbo? That should be enough evidence.

Did they say that? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I saw it twice and don't remember that. Also, if it were limbo, how the hell did Fischer get out so easily? Ariadne just threw him off the roof. I thought the whole point was that you had to know and BELIEVE you were lost to get out of it. Things like these are evidence that it's not limbo, but just another dream, Cobb's dream.

[Blu3]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

How about Cobb and Ariadne having a dialogue right before they go there, where they refer to it as limbo? That should be enough evidence.

You're assuming that limbo just happens to be the next numbered level, which would be wrong. Anyone that died in either level of the Fischer job would go straight to limbo. In fact, Saito died back in level 1, on the van (which then "killed" all the Saito's in each other dream level), and he went to limbo. Now here's the kicker - limbo could be level 4, we just don't know for sure, at least not without watching it again to see if the movie ever puts a dream level number on it. But you can't assume that it's level 4 just because Fischer, Cobb and Ariadne go there from within level 3. Fischer died and thus, went to limbo, while Cobb and Ariadne followed him there by plugging into him, courtesy of Eamus, or so I remember.

Originally Posted by JTStarkiller

Also, if it were limbo, how the hell did Fischer get out so easily? Ariadne just threw him off the roof. I thought the whole point was that you had to know and BELIEVE you were lost to get out of it. Things like these are evidence that it's not limbo, but just another dream, Cobb's dream.

That's a good point, about them remembering that they are in limbo, and the movie never shows us anyone reminding Fischer that he's dreaming, in order to get out of limbo, like it does with Cobb and Saito. I think we'll just have to accept that dying in limbo is the only way out, whether the person in limbo knows it or not, and when Ariadne jumps out the window with Fischer, they both die when they hit bottom (ouch) and thus, wake up from limbo back to level 3. Maybe there's no actual need to know, just die to get out of limbo, so maybe Cobb was just being nice to his wife by convincing her to join him on the tracks instead of pushing her in front of the train (lol), and by the time he reached Saito, he could barely remember what was going on and where they were (it's hard to remember the previous dream, the movie tells us that early on), so they each help each other remember, and we're led to believe that Saito puts them both out of misery with his hand gun, and out of limbo.

The one part that confuses me a bit is why Eamus sets up a kick on the military base. The kick only works in waking up someone who, at that level, has gone one more level higher in dreaming. The only people that are dreaming in the military base are Cobb and Ariadne, when they get plugged into Fischer - does this mean they could've gotten out with Eamus' kick, even though they were in limbo? Or was the kick just a way to stir things up in limbo to warn Cobb and Ariadne that time was running out (van was about to hit the water)? Everyone else in the military base level was awaken by the kick back in the elevater shaft, in the hotel dream (level 2).

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by JTStarkiller

Did they say that? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I saw it twice and don't remember that. Also, if it were limbo, how the hell did Fischer get out so easily? Ariadne just threw him off the roof. I thought the whole point was that you had to know and BELIEVE you were lost to get out of it. Things like these are evidence that it's not limbo, but just another dream, Cobb's dream.

[Show spoiler]Fischer died. That means limbo for him. That's the rule established early on regarding the sedative Yussuf uses. Plus, when Cobb & Ariadne are looking for him in that level (limbo), they are walking through the city that Cobb & Mal created while they were in limbo. So, it's made pretty obvious where they are.

Fischer wasn't dead long and Eames brings him back to life with a defibrelator while Fischer is simultaneously taking his own life by being thrown off of the building. He wasn't dead long in that level. In real life dead people get revived all of the time if they are attended to quickly enough. And with the stuff he is witnessing around him with Cobb & Mal, Fischer's probably very aware that he is dreaming and not in the real world, so the fall is perfect.

[Blu3]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

[Show spoiler]Fischer wasn't dead long and Eames brings him back to life with a defibrelator while Fischer is simultaneously taking his own life by being thrown off of the building. He wasn't dead long in that level. In real life dead people get revived all of the time if they are attended to quickly enough. And with the stuff he is witnessing around him with Cobb & Mal, Fischer's probably very aware that he is dreaming and not in the real world, so the fall is perfect.

Crap, I thought the only machine they used was a dream machine. So Eames does use a defribelator on Fischer? Was that part of a redundant plan with Cobb? I'll try and bring him back to life with the defibrelator, while you and Ariadne try and bring him back from limbo with the dream machine - either one of us succeeds, we all win?

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by Blu3

Crap, I thought the only machine they used was a dream machine. So Eames does use a defribelator on Fischer? Was that part of a redundant plan with Cobb? I'll try and bring him back to life with the defibrelator, while you and Ariadne try and bring him back from limbo with the dream machine - either one of us succeeds, we all win?

I guess so.

[Show spoiler]I remember that the defibrelator is used and that causes a thunderstorm with lightning to come flooding into limbo where Cobb & Ariadne are trying to save Fischer and confront Mal.

[Blu3]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

I guess so.

[Show spoiler]I remember that the defibrelator is used and that causes a thunderstorm with lightning to come flooding into limbo where Cobb & Ariadne are trying to save Fischer and confront Mal.

Ha! I remember that part now. I'm itching to watch this movie a 2nd time now almost as bad as the 1st time..

[JTStarkiller]

Originally Posted by Petra_Kalbrain

[Show spoiler]Fischer died. That means limbo for him. That's the rule established early on regarding the sedative Yussuf uses. Plus, when Cobb & Ariadne are looking for him in that level (limbo), they are walking through the city that Cobb & Mal created while they were in limbo. So, it's made pretty obvious where they are.

I understand that there's plenty of evidence that it's limbo, but my point earlier was that there's evidence that it's not too.

EDIT: Okay, I reread your post again and am seeing you were attempting to explain Fischer in the second paragraph, so I'll retract my statement above.

[Petra_Kalbrain]

Originally Posted by JTStarkiller

I understand that there's plenty of evidence that it's limbo, but my point earlier was that there's evidence that it's not too.

EDIT: Okay, I reread your post again and am seeing you were attempting to explain Fischer in the second paragraph, so I'll retract my statement above.

lol... I've been involved in so many discussions about this film and varying details that I think I may be getting lost in some of the details myself. I really have to go see this for a 3rd time.

[JTStarkiller]

Saaaaaammmme heeeeerrrrree.

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by Blu3

You're assuming that limbo just happens to be the next numbered level, which would be wrong.

The only thing I'm assuming, is that they said they were going down into Limbo. That's where Fischer was, and they were going after him. There is no reason to think that Fischer went anywhere else, he got killed, he didn't get "rigged" into anybody's dream from there. How would he get to some "level 4" by getting shot?

Originally Posted by Blu3

Crap, I thought the only machine they used was a dream machine. So Eames does use a defribelator on Fischer? Was that part of a redundant plan with Cobb? I'll try and bring him back to life with the defibrelator, while you and Ariadne try and bring him back from limbo with the dream machine - either one of us succeeds, we all win?

They both had to succeed for it to work. They have to bring Fischer back while he is being defibrillated. If they don't find him, then Eames just zaps him in vain effort.

[Blu3]

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

The only thing I'm assuming, is that they said they were going down into Limbo...How would he get to some "level 4" by getting shot?

Right, they did go into limbo, but nobody explicitly says level "4" - that's the point I was trying to make. Limbo is a level where anyone jumps to if they die, no matter where they are, no matter what dream level they're in when they die. Limbo can be level 4 or level 50, I don't think the movie ever ties a level number to it.

Maybe we're on the same side about this. Originally I thought your post was in support of JTStarkiller's post where he proposes limbo is level 4 (you quoted him). Were you agreeing or disagreeing with him?

Originally Posted by mjbethancourt

They both had to succeed for it to work. They have to bring Fischer back while he is being defibrillated. If they don't find him, then Eames just zaps him in vain effort.

I don't think they both had to succeed for it to work (and simultaneously, nonetheless). Nobody zapped Saito and Cobb when they got out of limbo and nobody zapped Cobb's wife when they layed on the train tracks (along with Cobb himself). Why would the rules change for Fischer?

[mjbethancourt]

Originally Posted by Blu3

Right, they did go into limbo, but nobody explicitly says level "4" - that's the point I was trying to make. Limbo is a level where anyone jumps to if they die, no matter where they are, no matter what dream level they're in when they die. Limbo can be level 4 or level 50, I don't think the movie ever ties a level number to it.

Maybe we're on the same side about this. Originally I thought your post was in support of JTStarkiller's post where he proposes limbo is level 4 (you quoted him). Were you agreeing or disagreeing with him?

Yes, you and I are in agreement on this. Limbo is Limbo, not "Cobb's dream" or "level 4".

I don't think they both had to succeed for it to work (and simultaneously, nonetheless). Nobody zapped Saito and Cobb when they got out of limbo and nobody zapped Cobb's wife when they layed on the train tracks (along with Cobb himself). Why would the rules change for Fischer?

Because Fischer had not yet completed the mission. They still needed him to get back and open the vault and talk to his father, all before the kick-chain gets them back up through the levels to the van, (where they presumably finish out their "week" at that level, waiting for the sedative to wear off). If Fischer had just used the "kill" method to escape Limbo, he would not have gone back to the Mountain Base where he was still needed, (who knows what would have happened... under that sedative, there's no guarantee that he would just wake up on the plane, he may probably still be "out"). He needed to be defibrillated to get him back to the Mountain Base, instead of merely "out of Limbo". They had to do both in order to stay in control of Fischer. I guess I wasn't very clear what I meant by "they both had to succeed for it to work".

Cobb and Saito miss the kick-chain, they are stuck for a very long time. In the case of Cobb and his wife, we don't know the details of what sedative or compound they were under, and it's suggested that they never had a plan for a kick, they were just going to wait-out the chemicals, but it ended up going on longer than Cobb could bear, so he used the inception to pursuade her to get out early. That "experiment" was clearly and unfortunately not under the same kind of controls and supervision that the Fischer inception job had.

[BluRoo98]

I just saw this tonight and all I can say is OMG that was awesome. Nolan is going to go down as one of the best writer directors of all time. I don't think we can appreciate how talented he is yet. Noone else in holyywood comes close.

[Azyiu]

Simple question.

So at the end did Cobb give in, decided to carry on with him life while staying in his dream world, as if he was awake? That is one part I didn't quite get.

[danman227460]

What you guys think of this?

http://micechat.com/forums/movies/14...ge-mcduck.html

Direct link to the comic:

http://disneycomics.free.fr/Ducks/Ro...002-033&s=date

[Azyiu]

Originally Posted by danman227460

What you guys think of this?

http://micechat.com/forums/movies/14...ge-mcduck.html

Direct link to the comic:

http://disneycomics.free.fr/Ducks/Ro...002-033&s=date

Meh... like the second poster said there, entering someone else's dream isn't exactly a new concept. The Cell is more or less another example based upon this concept.

[danman227460]

It is the concept I agree but they do mention a form of the kick in the comic. Might be even more. I am reading through the comic now.

Mention of the kick:
http://disneycomics.free.fr/Ducks/Ro...002-033&s=date

Originally Posted by Azyiu

Meh... like the second poster said there, entering someone else's dream isn't exactly a new concept. The Cell is more or less another example based upon this concept.