Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[OG Pooh]

I really wonder how much stuff was just made up to fit the way the episodes were filmed, rather than there being real backstory.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

I really wonder how much stuff was just made up to fit the way the episodes were filmed, rather than there being real backstory.

Quite the opposite. There's a lot in Episodes I-III that are inconsistent with what happens in the original trilogy. There's also the opposite, but I can see how that would have been harder to control without destroying the prequel storyline.

Once Episode IV was a success, Lucas had originally planned 9 movies. After Episodes IV, V and VI were made he was originally going to do I, VII, II, VIII, III, IX. He always had claimed he wrote the backstory for all the characters who appeared in Episode IV.

Here are the flaws and cheats that I found:
Episode III: If anger and fear leads to the dark side, why does Yoda look so angry in each of his “fights”? Why does Obi Wan smile when he kills all the droids in the elevator?
Episode III: If the Jedi can feel changes in the Force, how come they don’t know that Palpatine is the Sith Lord?
Episode III: Why does Darth swear his allegiance to the Emperor even after Padame dies? The biggest reason for turning to the dark side was to save her life.
Episode III: In an early scene, the Sith Lord already looks like he has the effects of the electrical charges which deform his face later in the film.
Episode III and later: If Chewbacca works with Yoda to fight the Empire, how come this role is never mentioned in Episodes IV-VI? If Obi Wan knows Chewbacca from 20 years before (although Chewbacca only meets with Yoda in the film), does this mean that Chewbacca is hiding his role in the battles from Han?
Episode IV: Both the Emperor and Darth Vader “know” that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker. But when the name of Luke Skywalker first comes up, neither brings up the possibility that Luke is Vader’s son. Is Skywalker such a common name in that galaxy?
Episode IV: What purpose does Obi Wan’s “suicide” serve? He doesn’t become “more powerful” as he tells Darth Vader he would be.
Episode IV: Vader tells Obi Wan, “You shouldn’t have come”. Why doesn’t he say, “where have you been for the last 20 years” or “I’m going to kill you for almost burning me to death”?
Episode IV: What is Darth Vader’s motivation for his actions? It’s never expressed. It can’t be to oppose the Jedi or Obi Wan because Obi Wan has been in hiding for at least 20 years and there are no other Jedi, except for Yoda, who isn’t mentioned in Ep IV. Is it to bring order to the Empire? But the only disorder is a small band of rebels. Why does this small band of rebels require the construction of the Death Star?
Episode IV: How does Obi Wan Kenobi know that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker? Same for Yoda in Ep V. At the end of Ep III, he thinks Anakin is dead.
Episode V and VI: In Ep V, Yoda insists that Luke not help his friends, but complete his Jedi training instead. Yet when Luke returns in Ep VI to complete his training, Yoda tells him that his training is complete.
Episode VI: Chewbacca tells the blind Han Solo that Luke is now a Jedi Knight. But later in the episode, Yoda first informs Luke that he is a Jedi.
Episode VI: Leia tells Luke she remembers her mother, but in episode III, Padame dies giving birth to her.

[No Ceiling]

^^Its just a movie, calm down.

[STARSCREAM]

Every now and then I pop in to see if there is any new info on the release but all I find is countless pages of b*tching about the movies.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Quite the opposite. There's a lot in Episodes I-III that are inconsistent with what happens in the original trilogy. There's also the opposite, but I can see how that would have been harder to control without destroying the prequel storyline.

Once Episode IV was a success, Lucas had originally planned 9 movies. After Episodes IV, V and VI were made he was originally going to do I, VII, II, VIII, III, IX. He always had claimed he wrote the backstory for all the characters who appeared in Episode IV.

Here are the flaws and cheats that I found:
Episode III: If anger and fear leads to the dark side, why does Yoda look so angry in each of his “fights”? Why does Obi Wan smile when he kills all the droids in the elevator?
Episode III: If the Jedi can feel changes in the Force, how come they don’t know that Palpatine is the Sith Lord?
Episode III: Why does Darth swear his allegiance to the Emperor even after Padame dies? The biggest reason for turning to the dark side was to save her life.
Episode III: In an early scene, the Sith Lord already looks like he has the effects of the electrical charges which deform his face later in the film.
Episode III and later: If Chewbacca works with Yoda to fight the Empire, how come this role is never mentioned in Episodes IV-VI? If Obi Wan knows Chewbacca from 20 years before (although Chewbacca only meets with Yoda in the film), does this mean that Chewbacca is hiding his role in the battles from Han?
Episode IV: Both the Emperor and Darth Vader “know” that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker. But when the name of Luke Skywalker first comes up, neither brings up the possibility that Luke is Vader’s son. Is Skywalker such a common name in that galaxy?
Episode IV: What purpose does Obi Wan’s “suicide” serve? He doesn’t become “more powerful” as he tells Darth Vader he would be.
Episode IV: Vader tells Obi Wan, “You shouldn’t have come”. Why doesn’t he say, “where have you been for the last 20 years” or “I’m going to kill you for almost burning me to death”?
Episode IV: What is Darth Vader’s motivation for his actions? It’s never expressed. It can’t be to oppose the Jedi or Obi Wan because Obi Wan has been in hiding for at least 20 years and there are no other Jedi, except for Yoda, who isn’t mentioned in Ep IV. Is it to bring order to the Empire? But the only disorder is a small band of rebels. Why does this small band of rebels require the construction of the Death Star?
Episode IV: How does Obi Wan Kenobi know that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker? Same for Yoda in Ep V. At the end of Ep III, he thinks Anakin is dead.
Episode V and VI: In Ep V, Yoda insists that Luke not help his friends, but complete his Jedi training instead. Yet when Luke returns in Ep VI to complete his training, Yoda tells him that his training is complete.
Episode VI: Chewbacca tells the blind Han Solo that Luke is now a Jedi Knight. But later in the episode, Yoda first informs Luke that he is a Jedi.
Episode VI: Leia tells Luke she remembers her mother, but in episode III, Padame dies giving birth to her.

Very interesting ponderings. Lots of that does make ya wonder. There a few others too. Overall though, Georgie did a good job tying it all together from film to film.

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Quite the opposite. There's a lot in Episodes I-III that are inconsistent with what happens in the original trilogy. There's also the opposite, but I can see how that would have been harder to control without destroying the prequel storyline.

Once Episode IV was a success, Lucas had originally planned 9 movies. After Episodes IV, V and VI were made he was originally going to do I, VII, II, VIII, III, IX. He always had claimed he wrote the backstory for all the characters who appeared in Episode IV.

Here are the flaws and cheats that I found:
Episode III: If anger and fear leads to the dark side, why does Yoda look so angry in each of his “fights”? Why does Obi Wan smile when he kills all the droids in the elevator?

More like concentrated and uber tough(Yoda). Killing droids doesn't do any harm, as they are only machines (Obi Wan)
Episode III: If the Jedi can feel changes in the Force, how come they don’t know that Palpatine is the Sith Lord?
Because the dark side has clouded their vision. It's mentioned a couple of times.
Episode III: Why does Darth swear his allegiance to the Emperor even after Padame dies? The biggest reason for turning to the dark side was to save her life.
The Emperor saved his life, and he couldn't very well go back to the Jedi, and say: Sorry guys, it was just a slight misunderstanding (ala Monty Python in Search for the holy Grail-Wedding scene)
Episode III: In an early scene, the Sith Lord already looks like he has the effects of the electrical charges which deform his face later in the film.
Got the exact time?
Episode III and later: If Chewbacca works with Yoda to fight the Empire, how come this role is never mentioned in Episodes IV-VI? If Obi Wan knows Chewbacca from 20 years before (although Chewbacca only meets with Yoda in the film), does this mean that Chewbacca is hiding his role in the battles from Han?
You answered your questioned yourself: Obi Wan never met Chewbacca, and even if, what should they have talked about?
Episode IV: Both the Emperor and Darth Vader “know” that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker. But when the name of Luke Skywalker first comes up, neither brings up the possibility that Luke is Vader’s son. Is Skywalker such a common name in that galaxy?
Yes, George Lucas explained it himself (Celebration V, I think). Just like our last names can be incredibly common, or at the very least they are close to never unique, Skywalker is a relatively common last name there, so just because someone has the same last name doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Episode IV: What purpose does Obi Wan’s “suicide” serve? He doesn’t become “more powerful” as he tells Darth Vader he would be.
He can help Luke as a spirit much better than he could as a person.
Episode IV: Vader tells Obi Wan, “You shouldn’t have come”. Why doesn’t he say, “where have you been for the last 20 years” or “I’m going to kill you for almost burning me to death”?
Because Vader expected to finish him off right there, which he sort of did.
Episode IV: What is Darth Vader’s motivation for his actions? It’s never expressed. It can’t be to oppose the Jedi or Obi Wan because Obi Wan has been in hiding for at least 20 years and there are no other Jedi, except for Yoda, who isn’t mentioned in Ep IV. Is it to bring order to the Empire? But the only disorder is a small band of rebels. Why does this small band of rebels require the construction of the Death Star?
Which actions? Regarding the Death Star: It's the ultimate tool to keep the people in check. Out of fear, no one would ever dare oppose the Emperor, and his Empire.
Episode IV: How does Obi Wan Kenobi know that Darth Vader was Anakin Skywalker? Same for Yoda in Ep V. At the end of Ep III, he thinks Anakin is dead.
He saw/heard it in the video message of Anakin slaughtering the younglings, when Palpatine was knighting him Darth Vader.
Episode V and VI: In Ep V, Yoda insists that Luke not help his friends, but complete his Jedi training instead. Yet when Luke returns in Ep VI to complete his training, Yoda tells him that his training is complete.
One thing remains!!! Vader, you must face Vader!!! Gosh when was the last time you watched them???
Episode VI: Chewbacca tells the blind Han Solo that Luke is now a Jedi Knight. But later in the episode, Yoda first informs Luke that he is a Jedi.
Luke got a little cocky. I am sure we all know who he had that from.
Episode VI: Leia tells Luke she remembers her mother, but in episode III, Padame dies giving birth to her.

How about her step mother? She sure remembered her. Maybe she was never told??? Don't tell about the EU, because that doesn't count for me, nor do end credits. It has to be mentioned in the films.

Any more question??

[StereoMike]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

and he couldn't very well go back to the Jedi, and say sorry guys, it was just a slight misunderstanding

[sega3dmm]

I find it cute that the man with a 24-karat toilet is unable to make high-quality transfers of the original cuts of Eps. IV-VI because it's "too expensive."

And that deleted ROTJ scene, either inhumanly out-of-place or fake.

I don't understand why Lucas is so bothered about the original trilogy's original cuts. Yes, a revised cut of a film (like the 1997 SEs) is always healthy for a director, but it's not like he's being asked to put the Holiday Special on Blu.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by sega3dmm

I don't understand why I'm so bothered about the original trilogy's Special Edition changes, especially when they don't change the stories of the movies themselves.

Fixed.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Fixed.

If they don't change the stories, then what was the point of doing them anyway besides a cash-grab?

[STARKILLER--1138]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Fixed.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Fixed.

If they're purely cosmetic (which they were not, by the way) then he has to keep altering them. The CG he used on the Special Editions is already dated.

[supersonic395]

Further to what BluYoda said,

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Episode VI: Leia tells Luke she remembers her mother, but in episode III, Padame dies giving birth to her.

Leia says they're distant memories and most likely visions like Anakin & Luke experience.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Fixed.

Take a look at Billie's fantastic sig.


.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Duffy12

Take a look at Billie's fantastic sig.

You mean the one where it's wrong to change other people's work without their permission?

(Sung in to the tune of "It's my party")
George Lucas: "It's my movie and I can change what I want to..."

Any other inapplicable signature quotes?

[Xenomorph]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Here are the flaws and cheats that I found:
.

What about the beginning of Ep.III. The droids all over Obi-Wan's fighter. Why can't he just use "the force" and sweep them all off, rather than Anakin almost killing them both trying to push them off with his fighter? Hmmm??

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

You mean the one where it's wrong to change other people's work without their permission?

(Sung in to the tune of "It's my party")
George Lucas: "It's my movie and I can change what I want to..."

Any other inapplicable signature quotes?

Nope.

This:

"Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten."

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

Quite the opposite. There's a lot in Episodes I-III that are inconsistent with what happens in the original trilogy. There's also the opposite, but I can see how that would have been harder to control without destroying the prequel storyline.

Once Episode IV was a success, Lucas had originally planned 9 movies. After Episodes IV, V and VI were made he was originally going to do I, VII, II, VIII, III, IX. He always had claimed he wrote the backstory for all the characters who appeared in Episode IV.

What I meant was, I wonder how much of what GL says is true backstory, lore or whatever is simply made up to explain something. Like Mace's purple lightsaber... In the AotC teaser trailer, it is called an electrum lightsaber (much more than likely to explain why it is the only purple bladed saber), other lore says that Mace's specifically is purple to signify his total mastery of the lightsaber. These are both fine explinations, but the real story is that it's purple because Samuel L. Jackon requested it. From there, a story or explination was created. What I wonder is how much Star Wars lore is completely made up for no other reason than to explain things of this nature... In other words, is it real backstory, or is it made up to explain something that came about due to other means?

And yeah, I know Lucas was originally going to do 9 films. In fact, I used to hang out with this guy named Don (right around the time Empire first released), who was related to G.L. through marraige. He claimed to know the endings of the three trilogies. I haven't thought about Don in years, but now that I think about it, what he said about VI & III was actually correct... He told me about Vader turning on the Emperor in episode VI & the duel between Ben & Vader in episode III, though he said Ben knocked Vader into a lava pit. Close enough though. Maybe he was right about IX too?

[Show spoiler]He said the very end shows Artoo & Threepio (the only two characters present in all 9 episodes) being dug up during an archeological excavation in the desert (on Earth). Hmm, thinking about it, maybe that explains the hieroglyphics of them in Raiders?

[aiman04]

Originally Posted by OG Pooh

What I meant was, I wonder how much of what GL says is true backstory, lore or whatever is simply made up to explain something. Like Mace's purple lightsaber... In the AotC teaser trailer, it is called an electrum lightsaber (much more than likely to explain why it is the only purple bladed saber), other lore says that Mace's specifically is purple to signify his total mastery of the lightsaber. These are both fine explinations, but the real story is that it's purple because Samuel L. Jackon requested it. From there, a story or explination was created. What I wonder is how much Star Wars lore is completely made up for no other reason than to explain things of this nature... In other words, is it real backstory, or is it made up to explain something that came about due to other means?

And yeah, I know Lucas was originally going to do 9 films. In fact, I used to hang out with this guy named Don (right around the time Empire first released), who was related to G.L. through marraige. He claimed to know the endings of the three trilogies. I haven't thought about Don in years, but now that I think about it, what he said about VI & III was actually correct... He told me about Vader turning on the Emperor in episode VI & the duel between Ben & Vader in episode III, though he said Ben knocked Vader into a lava pit. Close enough though. Maybe he was right about IX too?

[Show spoiler]He said the very end shows Artoo & Threepio (the only two characters present in all 9 episodes) being dug up during an archeological excavation in the dessert (on Earth). Hmm, thinking about it, maybe that explains the hieroglyphics of them in Raiders?

I think all the major plot points, characters, etc are already in his notes when he started writing in the 70's. Little things like colors of the lightsaber not so important in the whole story arc.

[Show spoiler]Interesting, the thing in Raiders was not meant for anything, the same way R2-D2 appears in the recent Star Trek, just some easter eggs. Star Wars was set "a long time ago", but "in a galaxy far, far away" so they can't end up on earth.

[OG Pooh]

Originally Posted by aiman04

I think all the major plot points, characters, etc are already in his notes when he started writing in the 70's. Little things like colors of the lightsaber not so important in the whole story arc.

[Show spoiler]Interesting, the thing in Raiders was not meant for anything, the same way R2-D2 appears in the recent Star Trek, just some easter eggs. Star Wars was set "a long time ago", but "in a galaxy far, far away" so they can't end up on earth.

Yes, I agree. What I'm saying is these unimportant points (like saber color) were decided for non-story based reasosn (how something looks on camera, actor preferences, etc), then lore/backstory was created later on. My question was./is.. How much was put in the films specifically to fit the lore/backstory Vs. What lore/backstory was created after the fact to explain things put in trivially?

[Show spoiler]It's never really been brought up if they were capable of traveling outside of their own galaxy. That part is still open (IMHO). Besides, they could have been adrift for millennium and crashed on Earth. My friend wasn't particularlly into Star Wars. He didn't relay specifics or even general storylines, he just claimed to know the basic conclusions, two of which he was correct about.

I didn't mean to imply the heiroglyphics were put into Raiders for that reason. I'm just saying they could be tied together if G.L. wanted to do so. Just another possible instance of lore fitting something they did for other reasons.