Disney Classics Screenshot Comparisons

[Freddy2]

Originally Posted by Zot!

The usual argument is that the MGM/WB stuff (Looney Tunes and Tom and Jerry) looks quite great without sacrificing a filmic look. I'm ambivalent, but probably prefer the MGM/WB approach. Either way I think the BDs are a huge step forward from what was previously available.

To make it even more "strange", Disney can do and actually does that too: restoring them closer to the original filmic look. The thing is, they only do that with their "lesser" titles, like "The Rescuers"; it is not overdone completely like the big titles, it is not scrubbed to death like "The Aristocats", it is simply clean enough, without losing detail, and still with a small amount of grain present. Perfect! That's the way to do it.

[Lnds500]

Originally Posted by Ernest Rister

High-marks -- but usually with caveats about the production artifacts, excused because of the age of the shorts.

I get the issue about grain, I don't get the issue about the dust. Walt Disney did what he could to eliminate cel dust and scrawl in his animated films, but nature and static electricity defeated him. It's always dangerous to put words in Walt's mouth, but in the case of being able to eliminate the cel noise from a labor of love like Pinocchio or Bambi or Fantasia, I have a really hard time believing someone like Walt would be against it.

Could you elaborate (maybe with links and pictures) of what cel dust and scrawl are? I googled but all results are bringing up posts of yours.

[Freddy2]

Originally Posted by Lnds500

Could you elaborate (maybe with links and pictures) of what cel dust and scrawl are? I googled but all results are bringing up posts of yours.

Give or take a few misspellings... these "problems" and more are all explained in this article:

http://whysoblu.com/a-talk-with-disn...tion-of-dumbo/


For short:


Cell dust really is just dust on the cells:

"But anyway, we wind up – once we have those digital images, there is an automated dust-busting process that we refer to. It’s a dust-busting with – it removes a lot of the ancillary dirt and whatnot automatically. And then we’re going in on a regular basis and reviewing parts of various reels of the film at a time. And we are calling out various other aspects, artifacts, and anomalies that need to be taken care of. Those include – aside from the dust and dirt – fingerprints that may have been on the cells, cell shimmers, what we refer to as Newton rings, when you press several layers of acetate cells together, you get these rainbow rings that can get photographed in, cell scratches."


And Paint crawl is:

"Yes, one of the big things about the early Disney features is that – and a lot of people don’t realize this – but the studio itself had its own paint lab, and they mixed their own paints, which meant that they had a binder and they had pigments and they had a formula, and they would mix these paints up. And some of those pigments were better than others from the standpoint of stability. One of the problems that we encountered on “Dumbo” is that there’s large color areas of the elephants. There was a lot of what we referred to as paint crawl. And, really, what was happening with the paint was that certain colors – the pigment and binder – would separate if they weren’t continuously being stirred. And so you wind up putting the paint down on a cell, and when that cell dries, there’s almost an imperceptible streaking, if you will, from the brushing – from the brush and the brush application — of the paint. On an individual cell, you can maybe pick it up a little bit if it’s really bad, but you can actually see it when you see a sequence of cells play by at 24 frames a second.

And so that was one of the big areas that we had to deal with, was the amount of paint crawl, because in some of the scenes, the paint crawl was really bad. And when you’re showing a pristine image, it was magnified, because there was less grain in the image. You know, years ago, when they did a release print that was a couple generations away from the negative, the paint crawl wasn’t as prevalent."

[filmmusic]

I just discovered this thread!
Thank you for your contributions!
I have one favour to ask:
Can anyone please make a comparison of Beauty and the Beast between the VHS (or LaserDisc) and Bluray? (especially the initial morning scene, and the light that goes in from the bookshop's window)

Yes, i have said it multiple times, that it's the most hideous "restoration" in a Disney animation film, and though the film is my favourite of all time, I still have a problem buying the Bluray.
Yes I know it got approved by the creators, and they used the original CAPS and all that.
But still, the film changed radically!

If anyone wants I can provide screenshots of the Laserdisc.
I don't have the Bluray.


edit: wow! I just saw screenshot comparisons of the 2d and 3d Bluray, and it seems the 3d is closer to the original look! Not quite of course, but it's better than the 2d.
http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtop...=597793#597793
http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtop...=600419#600419

[PuppyJonathan]

I know no one cares, but I made two comparisons from Mickey's Rival and How to Play Football
How to Play Football:

How to Play Football Restoration by puppyjonathan, on Flickr
Mickey's Rival:

Mickey's Rival Restoration by puppyjonathan, on Flickr
Both reveal alot more picture, and How to Play Football has some different color tones, but it probably can only be noticed by a sharp eye. On Mickey's Rival, colors are (pretty much) the same, but boy does this look beautiful! If you go on my "Disney Shorts on Bluray" thread I have the video posted, and I think this is the best restoration Disney has ever done (Bravo!). You can still see hairs, and small film artifacts. It looks completley sharp and I think this is what every short should look like. Sorry to waste your time, carry on

[filmmusic]

well. now THAT'S a restoration!!! No radical change of colors!
I wish it would be the same with Beauty and the Beast.
By the way, where were those shorts released in Bluray?

I don't understand why they don't make a collection, as with the Looney Tunes and Tom & Jerry Blurays!

[PuppyJonathan]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

well. now THAT'S a restoration!!! No radical change of colors!
I wish it would be the same with Beauty and the Beast.
By the way, where were those shorts released in Bluray?

I don't understand why they don't make a collection, as with the Looney Tunes and Tom & Jerry Blurays!

They were off WaltDisneyStudiosFR's youtube page, they started uploading them in 1080p. They are not on bluray yet, I think Disney is planning on doing a chornological release, plus I would want them to find a way to market them to the average customer so that way this isn't a big financial loss. Fans will eat it up, but I don't know about the rest of the market

[filmmusic]

well, I hope they do.
I hope they'll release all their Walt Disney Treasures animation line in Bluray too.
That series is exquisite!!

[PuppyJonathan]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

well, I hope they do.
I hope they'll release all their Walt Disney Treasures animation line in Bluray too.
That series is exquisite!!

That series is my guilty pleasure, I hope they have an awesome bluray release

[Zot!]

Originally Posted by PuppyJonathan

That series is my guilty pleasure, I hope they have an awesome bluray release

Why guilty?

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by Zot!

Why guilty?

Yeah, i would ask the same..
I think we say "guilty pleasure" when we're talking about something that we know it's bad, but we like it nonetheless..

the Disney shorts are masterpieces!

[PuppyJonathan]

Originally Posted by Zot!

Why guilty?

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Yeah, i would ask the same..
I think we say "guilty pleasure" when we're talking about something that we know it's bad, but we like it nonetheless..

the Disney shorts are masterpieces!

Well, sometimes, I just lurk on eBay auctions just to see what they look like, since Google won't help. Plus I have several pictures on my phone, I almost treat the Treasures like a person . Not to mention if you were to start buying them today it would be expensive

[filmmusic]

here, i posted over at DVDizzy, some screenshot comparisons of Beauty and the Beast between LaserDisc (left) and 3d Bluray (right).
This is one of my favourite scenes and I like how the light is used in the film!
The effect is totally vanished in the Bluray.




and in this one, the perspective caused by the shadows in the lights, is lost in the 3d Bluray (and of course the Bluray)

up: publicity still?
middle: 3d Bluray
down: LaserDisc

[PuppyJonathan]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

here, i posted over at DVDizzy, some screenshot comparisons of Beauty and the Beast between LaserDisc (left) and 3d Bluray (right).
This is one of my favourite scenes and I like how the light is used in the film!
The effect is totally vanished in the Bluray.

[Show spoiler]


and in this one, the perspective caused by the shadows in the lights, is lost in the 3d Bluray (and of course the Bluray)

up: publicity still?
middle: 3d Bluray
down: LaserDisc

I understand your point, and I do like the lighting in the village scene on the laserdisc, but I think the bluray looks a lot sharper, and a little bit better. I'm sorry but that's just the way I look at it

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by PuppyJonathan

I understand your point, and I do like the lighting in the village scene on the laserdisc, but I think the bluray looks a lot sharper, and a little bit better. I'm sorry but that's just the way I look at it

of course the BLuray looks sharper and has an excellent quality overall.
I don't have any objection to this.
My discussion is only about the colors.
The colors are a very important element ESPECIALLY in animation films, and such radical changes, change the whole aesthetics of the film.
(eg. the initial bright morning scene now seems to me as late afternoon)
For me who grew up with Beauty and the Beast and is my favourite film of all time and I know it by heart, the Bluray (the colors specifically) make it look like a cheap direct-to-DVD Disney sequel which has lost all its magic and romantic feel, due to the loss of shadows, over-saturated colors, radical changes in colors etc etc..

eg. how would you feel, if Disney gave you in a Bluray this?


the screenshot comparison you posted above, is an excellent restoration, and that is how it should be done always!


Anyway, the 3d Bluray looks a bit better than the 2d bluray (i mean some things were corrected and are more true to the theatrical presentation like Belle's hair, Gaston's clothes etc..), but still, it's 3d.

[Freddy2]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

Can anyone please make a comparison of Beauty and the Beast between the VHS (or LaserDisc) and Bluray? (especially the initial morning scene, and the light that goes in from the bookshop's window)

Hello and thanks for your contributions!

I took your comparison between LD and 3D-BD and added the same screenshots of my VHS and BD, so... enjoy!...

[Show spoiler]

If you ask me, I think the LD is slightly too bright and cold, the BD is very warm, a bit much I would say and the 3D-BD is just weird; I've never seen such a yellow sky, except caused by pollution... But that doesn't count of course, as the 3D-BD is supposed to be seen through 3D-glasses, so I guess that would correct most of it. All in all I like the VHS-colors best: not too bright, not too warm.

[filmmusic]

Thank you very much!
That's excellent comparison!
Well the brightness and stuff can be easily fixed in any TV/monitor.
the things that can't be fixed are the colors!
Yes, the VHS has exceptional colors!!
A Bluray with that color palette would be a dream come true for me!!

[PuppyJonathan]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

of course the BLuray looks sharper and has an excellent quality overall.
I don't have any objection to this.
My discussion is only about the colors.
The colors are a very important element ESPECIALLY in animation films, and such radical changes, change the whole aesthetics of the film.
(eg. the initial bright morning scene now seems to me as late afternoon)
For me who grew up with Beauty and the Beast and is my favourite film of all time and I know it by heart, the Bluray (the colors specifically) make it look like a cheap direct-to-DVD Disney sequel which has lost all its magic and romantic feel, due to the loss of shadows, over-saturated colors, radical changes in colors etc etc..

eg. how would you feel, if Disney gave you in a Bluray this?

[Show spoiler]

the screenshot comparison you posted above, is an excellent restoration, and that is how it should be done always!


Anyway, the 3d Bluray looks a bit better than the 2d bluray (i mean some things were corrected and are more true to the theatrical presentation like Belle's hair, Gaston's clothes etc..), but still, it's 3d.

Um, I'm not sure how to respond to that, I know I would be hurt if that happened. At the same time I'm just surprised they still used all those changes from the IMAX version to now, how did you feel about the Platinum dvd?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by filmmusic

here, i posted over at DVDizzy, some screenshot comparisons of Beauty and the Beast between LaserDisc (left) and 3d Bluray (right).
This is one of my favourite scenes and I like how the light is used in the film!
The effect is totally vanished in the Bluray.

I'm not quite getting what you're trying to do here. The LD looks too bright and washed out in comparison.

[Lutz]

Another thing that no one has mentioned is that the restoration has completely destroyed the line hierarchy.

To give it that 3D effect and make it look like it is interacting with the background animation is constructed in a series of fat, thin and tapered lines. You can clearly see in the VHS grabs that there is a hierarchy of lines but in the BLU grabs all the lines have been standardised and are all the same thickness. This is why it now looks like the characters are floating in front of the background and also why when you have character face close ups it has that awkward blobbing together look.

They have taken what used to be incredibly sophisticated animation and reduced it to Saturday morning cartoon quality. In the end Disney are really cutting their own throat with this. Even if people are still buying their stuff in droves out of fond memory for - rightly so - how good these movies originally were they are going to lose the next generation who believe that Disney was never that great based on the extremely substandard PQ which is being sold as definitive.