4K Movies Releases

[Penton-Man]

And remember, for those *multi-taskers* who might take in this ^ flick this weekend...

Don't Talk - Julie Delpy and Ethan Hawke - CENSORED - YouTube

[Mansinthe]

never thought it about this way but someone postet this

Originally Posted by Danny4
this is absolutely not the time to stop buying blu-rays. if you want to have a physical collection of your favorite movies this is most likely the last opportunity you get to do so since the future will be streaming.

i dont think there will be no physical 4k medium but it seems possible that some movie will just not get a actuall physical 4k rerelease , but instead maybe a bad 4k vod...

like a lot of these 720p vods avaible (and even 1080p) look worse than a good DVD.

[Constitution 101]

Originally Posted by img eL

You say 4K streaming would be a problem, then to problems not going to happen to there has never been problems with streaming

Not at all what I said, re-read.

[img eL]

Originally Posted by Constitution 101

Not at all what I said, re-read.

Have you tried 4K streaming yet?

[Penton-Man]

Back from our morning ride with time to spare to respond to some posts before watching the Belmont coverage in a few minutes to see if thee *old guy* Gary Stevens and his horse can pull out yet another win….
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3032619/#52138626

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Mansinthe

my hw30es will have to do till there are consumer class 4k sony projectors.
but im currently really happy with it while watching some A+ blurays like skyfall.

Sheryl Crow - If It Makes You Happy - live - 2002 - lyrics - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by joie

Is 3840p 4K?

We’ve already had multiple past discussions on this forum dating back as long as 1-2 years ago (long before it became fashionable to do so on ‘talk shows’) concerning the exact ‘numbers’ and the implications of such with regards to cropping vs. downscaling, etc. I would have to search a lot of previous posts to find those of which are relevant to your query to provide you with explanation(s). I don’t have the time right now. So, in a nutshell, unlike the manufacturers, (I, being a consultant, and the only thing I ‘sell’ are my services), I am not fearful of any State Attorney General filling papers to sue me for calling 3840….4K – to understand what I mean, listen to ~ 33’ 45’’ mark of this clip….

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ip#post7641514 - - especially since the amount of picture information ‘lost’ is so minimal. I find it silly to persistently obsess over whether consumer 4K = true 4K. Hell, RED (and their fans….and the media outlets) called their RED One camera a 4K camera for years, and nobody I recall had much of a problem with that despite the fact that the effective resolution of that camera was only about 3.2K, at best.

But for those uninformed readers new to this forum whom may have missed reading all those previous *the meaning of 4K* posts, especially in Club Penton , I’ll say that ‘4K’ is a term in use to describe images that have ~ 4000 vertical lines. In D-Cinema, a 4K image with a 2.39:1 (scope) aspect ratio is delivered having 4096 x 1716 pixels. Whereas, a 4K image with a 1.85:1 (flat) aspect ratio is delivered having 3996 x 2160 pixels.

So, jolie, is 3996p….4K?

This is an example of a consumer 4K panel (click on the specs) -
http://store.sony.com/c/XBR_4K_Ultra...vTop?XID=O:xbr 84x900:dg_tv_gglsrch:b&k_id=7a4621f3-40d9-f3e9-43be-00002dac1ed4

This is a profession 4K panel (click on the Features in regards to resolutions supported) -
http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product...ID=M:prosocial

If it were me, for watching movies and other content (broadcast, etc.) at home, I’d happily choose the larger (pixel-challenged ) panel any day of the week…..and that includes going out to a ‘4K’ Digital Cinema to *try* to watch a movie with all the surrounding distractions from *movie patrons* at your typical local cineplex -

Theater Hires Ninjas to Discipline Noisy Moviegoers - YouTube

[slick1ru2]

Youtube 4K streaming movies, for those with 4K TVs.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5BF9E09ECEC8F88F

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by slick1ru2

Youtube 4K streaming movies, for those with 4K TVs.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5BF9E09ECEC8F88F

Don't want to watch 4k YouTube on a projector dude.

[slick1ru2]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Don't want to watch 4k YouTube on a projector dude.

This is just an early example of 4K streaming, a glimpse of what's to come. they are all professionally made short movies with the Red One camera.


EDIT: Plus it was aimed, more or less, at these two, https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1424

[Penton-Man]

The salient point (and quite a valid one at that) which I think some people are trying to make is that 4K streaming will indeed come (Netflix, etc.) and quite sooner than many might expect but, the issue of real concern is at what quality?

Historically, the bitrates for streaming video delivery have been much lower than that of Blu-ray or even I think broadcast, for that matter. Last I checked, 1080p video is being widely streamed online at 5-6 Mbps (using h.264). *Coincidentally* at the last NAB, Fraunhofer (who had the best looking stuff) was showing 4K HEVC at just…. 5 Mbps.

Streaming is driven by the economics of bandwidth so it thusly provides video at the minimum bitrate in order to make the imagery look acceptable to the masses. No overt artifacts but, definite softening compared to the uncompressed source when one does a side-by-side comparison. In a nutshell, streaming has not been a videophile’s medium. On the other hand, since Blu-ray has not been so encumbered by the economics of bandwidth restrictions, it has proven successful at being much more visually transparent to the uncompressed source content.

So, what folks are worried about is that not only do you have to sit closer to your same-sized screen (or purchase a larger screen) to get a significant benefit out of viewing the increased resolution of 4K content (at 24 fps) in the first place, but then what if the content provider (streaming service) also waters down that 4K PQ by softening up the imagery with low bitrate delivery? No blatant artifacts mind you, but definite 'unsharpness' compared to what could be.

I mean what’s the point in that other than the fact that the people providing it to you can claim that they...‘do 4K streaming’.

[Constitution 101]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The salient point (and quite a valid one at that) which I think some people are trying to make is that 4K streaming will indeed come (Netflix, etc.) and quite sooner than many might expect but, the issue of real concern is at what quality?

Historically, the bitrates for streaming video delivery have been much lower than that of Blu-ray or even I think broadcast, for that matter. Last I checked, 1080p video is being widely streamed online at 5-6 Mbps (using h.264). *Coincidentally* at the last NAB, Fraunhofer (who had the best looking stuff) was showing 4K HEVC at just…. 5 Mbps.

Streaming is driven by the economics of bandwidth so it thusly provides video at the minimum bitrate in order to make the imagery look acceptable to the masses. No overt artifacts but, definite softening compared to the uncompressed source when one does a side-by-side comparison. In a nutshell, streaming has not been a videophile’s medium. On the other hand, since Blu-ray has not been so encumbered by the economics of bandwidth restrictions, it has proven successful at being much more visually transparent to the uncompressed source content.

So, what folks are worried about is that not only do you have to sit closer to your same-sized screen (or purchase a larger screen) to get a significant benefit out of viewing the increased resolution of 4K content (at 24 fps) in the first place, but then what if the content provider (streaming service) also waters down that 4K PQ by softening up the imagery with low bitrate delivery? No blatant artifacts mind you, but definite 'unsharpness' compared to what could be.

I mean what’s the point in that other than the fact that the people providing it to you can claim that they...‘do 4K streaming’.

The point is that the large majority of consumers(unfortunately in this case) will choose convenience over quality(perceived or otherwise). Hopefully, there'll be enough demand left to make it worthwhile for some clever company/entrepreneur to service people us! Maybe you old timer...

[singhcr]

I saw the 65" Sony 4K TV at the Best Buy in the Mall of America yesterday.

Firstly, it's rather amazing that even with your nose to the screen you can't make out any pixels. You really can sit significantly closer to the screen which is nice.

It's also amazing that Sony didn't have their media server with 4k movies on it because we saw some rather compressed 4k and 1080p clips. Why didn't we get a BD and a 100 GB 4K file to look at? Where's the 4k version of Taxi Driver? Why am I watching a Netflix HD version of Amazing Spider-Man instead of the BD and the 4k version?

The soccer match had a nice bump up in depth and detail in 4k as did After Earth but it wasn't as large as I expected. It still looked softer than I expected when in motion.

I think with a less compressed source I could really see a difference. The TV did do a good job upsampling 1080p content though.

I've seen Lawrence of Arabia on a 4k projector and that was very close to 70mm theatrical print quality IMHO so I know the technology is good, but a 4k TV should look better than a projector.

[img eL]

Americans have always wanted the fastest internet possible since internet was first available in the U.S., Gigabit internet demand is not the issue & never has in the U.S., There is alot of politics going on with the issue of Gigabit internet.

[slick1ru2]

Bandwidth access and speeds will only get better. My connection is a lot better than the 3mbps DSL I had 10 years ago and 56k 5 years before that. Still, a 20mbps DL connection is only rated 'B+' by Speedtest.net, with it being better than only 76% of the US.




NetFlix has that new program with certain ISPs that currently lets those users stream 'Super HD' (Vudu HDX speeds) and 3D. I imagine that is probably going to be the case with 4K when they offer it, your ISP is going to have to be in that program.

[Steedeel]

Super hd is not hdx quality or speed to my knowledge. It is just the old 1080p stream with less bitrate. Is this correct?

[Penton-Man]

Last weekend, from the PGA (no, not the Professional Golf Association) was a conference for Producers, i.e. for some background, run the YouTube promo clip at the bottom left of this link - http://www.producedbyconference.com/

A conference that included a panel of speakers whom discussed the pros and cons of high (4K and higher) resolution acquisition for motion pictures. During which a CEO with vision acknowledged the potential benefit(s) of ACES…”Maintaining consistent color—and communicating that to all collaborators—is a top priority. McCreary sees real promise in ACES, the Academy Color Encoding Specification being developed under AMPAS’ Science and Technology Council” - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/beh...choices-565024

A conference which, even if you were a Guild member, would have cost you $375. to hear such insights like that, whereas being a reader and listener of Blu-ray.com, you get all that ACES pipeline stuff for free, in much more detail, several days earlier and with a good listening tune….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...es#post7613563

Note to Iceman, I’m looking forward to a coffee table book about the reindeer people.

[JohnAV]

Japan to hold 'world's first' 4k streaming trial to set-top box

June 11, 2013, 10:31 AM — A major Japanese telecommunications provider will stream 4k video over the Internet to set-top boxes this week, in what it is calling the world's first public test of the technology.

NTT West said Tuesday it will conduct a three-day trial in Tokyo during a digital media seminar from Wednesday through Friday. The firm said it will use the HEVC (High Efficiency Video Coding) standard to send video from a cloud server directly to a set top box attached to a standard 4k television. The company did not reveal what it will stream, but said its goal is to launch commercial 4k service.

The test will use H.265/HEVC, the successor to the H.264/MPEG-4 standard in wide use today. HEVC, approved as an international standard in January, was designed to double the compression ratio of existing standards, and covers traditional TV broadcasts as well as Internet streaming. Compression is crucial for 4k, or ultra high definition, which has a resolution of 3,840 x 2,160, four times the pixel count of current HD.

While 4k-capable TVs, computer monitors and mobile devices are beginning to come to market, content is still scarce. Most TVs still rely on digital enhancement of HD broadcasts and video to fill out their extra pixels.

[Penton-Man]

I continue to receive PMs about this topic from people who seem confused about scanning, digital intermediate pipelines and DCPs, for context I’ll quote an excerpt from yesterday’s latest PM… “Penton, when is the movie industry going to develop the infrastructure needed to distribute 4K DCPs”.

To be clear…the industry has had the infrastructure to distribute 4K DCPs for years and I’ve posted the actual specs of numerous examples of 4K DCPs for a variety of motion pictures (dating back to 2010) which have been delivered to local commercial theaters. The *making of the DCP deliverable* is not really the key issue. The issue is whether the movie production decided to FINISH i.e. MASTER the movie in 4K (which generally has been more expensive) than a 2K FINISH. The VAST majority of movies by the motion picture industry to date have been mastered in 2K, even if the camera acquisition was 4K or 35mm so as to avoid the extra expense of a 4K DI.

The deliverable or *DCP part of the equation* is not the bottleneck because all DCI compliant playback server and projection systems, no matter if 2K or 4K, are required (i.e. DCI compliant) to support the playback of both 2K and 4K DCPs. In a nutshell, the way it works is that the 4K DCP contains a 2K image plus the differences between the 2K and the 4K image. During playback of a 4K DCP, a 2K projection system only reads and decodes the 2K part of the compressed image and ignores the additional information for the 4K part. A 4K system can read and decode *the 4K layer* of information on a 4K DCP.

A concern which has been expressed by D-Cinema professionals is the recent tendency they’ve noticed of 4K DCPs getting more and more compressed (see a couple of my past listed examples for recent 4K DCP file sizes) and question whether these newest DCPs are not as visually lossless as earlier 4K DCP movies in the past have been (based on GB size) and whether this practice is being done in order to cut down on the copy time over normal USB 2.0 and also to take up less server space at the theater. This alleged deficiency may not be apparent on the smaller screens at your local Cineplex, but more than a few industry watchers believe that the greater compression has lead to decreased visual quality on the larger theatrical screens.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

A 4K system can read and decode *the 4K layer* of information on a 4K DCP.

Now, whether theater patrons have been getting 4K resolution out of that 4K DCP from the 4K projector at their local Cineplex that has 4K projection capability…..well that, is an entirely different matter as I explained in this post from a series of replies to Pie concerning this topic from last May….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ss#post7546009