Shouldn't there be enough 4K content by now?

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Again though, if manufacturers never took a chance on a product where would we be? Same for the industry. None of them are to know what will take off and vice versa

True but you need some backing from the studios. That is where Sony is in a unique position - they can create the technology because they know there is a studio that will test this stuff. There have been tons of formats that were abondoned quickly because of no or limited studio support. Unless they are coming out with something so revolutionary that it will change how the industry works, no manufacturer is going to go out on a limb without some kind of support from Hollywood.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

...I can assure you this is not a simple process. Is there a post house with all the hardware/software needed to do a workflow in 4K using H.265? Since HEVC is in the process of forming MPEG LA H.265/HEVC it could be awhile before we see hardware/software utilizing HEVC.

The major licensing hurdle has been cleared, in that the content makers are dancing in the streets…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...no#post8680981 and the encoder/decoder vendors have a clearer picture as to what they have to deal with in terms of royalties so they can now move forward with less inhibition.

Off the top of my head (based on what was displayed at the last CES), the following vendors have hardware to support the decoding of HEVC at 4K (2160p) rez…Qualcomm, Sigma, ViXS, Broadcom, MediaTek, MStar, and ST. On the other hand, hardware support for HEVC encoding is still in its infancy at this time.

Further development of the HEVC codec itself, continues (unlike that for VP9, of which specs are frozen, to the best of my knowledge). HEVC range extension work is very active which includes new profiles as well as Intra profiles and scalable technology for such things as color gamut and frame rate.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

Why didn't laserdisc succeed?

It was successful, just not on a large scale because: size of the disc, cost of the disc, few rental outlets (was there any besides VideoConcepts?) and most importantly, you could not record to the format like you could with tape.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The major licensing hurdle has been cleared, in that the content makers are dancing in the streets…

I have removed the Sony FMP-X1 from consideration because they have announced a new version that supposedly supports streaming and HEVC. It would be nice if it had IR control as well and supported external hard drives without headaches.

[Wendell R. Breland]

FWIW:

Together with Sony's new 4K X850B series models, all 2014 4K TVs come with Sony's 4K 60p HEVC hardware decoder built-in to enable playing new forms of 4K content. Sony is also developing its next-generation 4K Media Player with expanded codec support (AVC, HEVC and XAVC-S) to support streaming of 4K content, as well as storage and playback of footage shot with Sony 4K Handycam® camcorders.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

It was successful, just not on a large scale because: size of the disc, cost of the disc, few rental outlets (was there any besides VideoConcepts?) and most importantly, you could not record to the format like you could with tape.

yeah but it was a superior product from a technical standpoint - vhs should have died. other than the size, dvd had all the same problems initially. Remember the original Star Trek series release - 2 episodes a disc and the cost was what, $25 or so a disc? laserdisc just got hit with a bad public image and most people didn't see the need to upgrade. technology wasn't there for the product yet - would bluray be selling if we still had old tvs with limited resolution?

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by blonde_devil

yeah but it was a superior product from a technical standpoint

So was βeta 1. Somewhere I posted quite a few of my LaserDisc titles and the actual price paid for each title plus I showed the price paid inflation adjusted to 2013. Most of my collection would make Blu-rays look cheap in comparison.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

....and supported external hard drives without headaches.

As to the current version (the puck) in that regard, a novel solution would have been to let go some people from CORPORATE rather than cutting back on people in the trenches (and their managers) that make the infrastructure work.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

(the puck)

How to download 4K content from the Sony® Video Unlimited 4K Service - YouTube

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

So was βeta 1. Somewhere I posted quite a few of my LaserDisc titles and the actual price paid for each title plus I showed the price paid inflation adjusted to 2013. Most of my collection would make Blu-rays look cheap in comparison.

Yeah. If I remember correctly, Star Wars by itself was $90 and I got all 6 movies for that on blu. That's where laserdisc was just a little too far ahead of technology. I read somewhere that mp3 was created back in the 1970's but with the standard of technology at the time, all a device could carry was one song because that was how bad memory storage was at the time. I think that is why dvd did better - big screen tvs were becoming more and more popular, started getting flatscreens and then plasma/lcd screens, 5.1 surround, etc. Everything started to converge but I think that is what is holding back 4K - the technology is there already but people just see it as an improvement on what we already have and are waiting for the next big jump. They don't see the need for it now and are happy with what they have.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The major licensing hurdle has been cleared, in that the content makers are dancing in the streets…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...no#post8680981 and the encoder/decoder vendors have a clearer picture as to what they have to deal with in terms of royalties so they can now move forward with less inhibition.

Off the top of my head (based on what was displayed at the last CES), the following vendors have hardware to support the decoding of HEVC at 4K (2160p) rez…Qualcomm, Sigma, ViXS, Broadcom, MediaTek, MStar, and ST. On the other hand, hardware support for HEVC encoding is still in its infancy at this time.

Further development of the HEVC codec itself, continues (unlike that for VP9, of which specs are frozen, to the best of my knowledge). HEVC range extension work is very active which includes new profiles as well as Intra profiles

The intent is that Version 2 (range extensions) of the HEVC specification (including such profiles as Main 4:2:2 12, Main 4:2:2 10, Main 4:4:4 12, Main 4:4:4 10, Main 4:4:4 8, monochrome 12, monochrome 16, etc.) will be approved this July. This will be of benefit to professionals in the future.

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Although once in awhile we forget a title ( https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ns#post8714645 )

Regarding available 4K finishes from the DI suite, I think these are the two most comprehensive and original (as evidenced by the timing of input additions) 4K lists anywhere on the internet -

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=218262
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=220755

Thanks for these links Penton!

Both threads should almost be made in to stickies as time goes on.

Yesterday I went in to the "high end" section of a unnamed Big Blue Box retailer in the largest mall in the country. Anyway, the guy in there was talking up the Sony "puck" server. He made some statement like "there are already about 250 movies on the Sony server now". I'm like "no there is not dude..." he was taken aback. "No, they have been recording in 4K since like 2003" he says. I just shut up after that. "Well go check out the Sony site and see" he tells me. Well here it is man! The Sony available titles as of Jan 31st 2014. Maybe you get close to 250 with all the individual episodes of Breaking Bad and the free clips of demo material not listed... like a Taylor Swift music video.... then maaaaybe he was close to being right. I dunno. Seems like a stretch. I always wonder what kind of corporate filter all those guys get their information through. Oy.

http://store.sony.com/gsi/static/WFS...d_PDF_Rev2.pdf

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

I always wonder what kind of corporate filter all those guys get their information through.

Thanks for the rev. 2 link. I have the first but now I can not remember how I got there. How did you find the the rev. 2 link to the PDF?

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Thanks for these links Penton!

Both threads should almost be made in to stickies as time goes on.

Yesterday I went in to the "high end" section of a unnamed Big Blue Box retailer in the largest mall in the country. Anyway, the guy in there was talking up the Sony "puck" server. He made some statement like "there are already about 250 movies on the Sony server now". I'm like "no there is not dude..." he was taken aback. "No, they have been recording in 4K since like 2003" he says. I just shut up after that. "Well go check out the Sony site and see" he tells me. Well here it is man! The Sony available titles as of Jan 31st 2014. Maybe you get close to 250 with all the individual episodes of Breaking Bad and the free clips of demo material not listed... like a Taylor Swift music video.... then maaaaybe he was close to being right. I dunno. Seems like a stretch. I always wonder what kind of corporate filter all those guys get their information through. Oy.

http://store.sony.com/gsi/static/WFS...d_PDF_Rev2.pdf

Do they have the puck server hooked up to a TV? I would love to see some classic movies in 4K.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

corporate filter

For television, we’ll call 60fps….HFR - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ps#post8732246

And ,of course, corporate at its best (at the senior level) with the classic on the meaning of “consultation”…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ge#post6782166

Just wait for the future…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ve#post8705417

[Flatnate]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Thanks for the rev. 2 link. I have the first but now I can not remember how I got there. How did you find the the rev. 2 link to the PDF?

I was on the Sony product page for the FMP-X1. Midway down there is a section called "4K your way - rent or buy" and under that there is a little blue link that says "see all titles available".

http://store.sony.com/gsi/webstore/W...t?SKU=27-FMPX1

Originally Posted by singhcr

Do they have the puck server hooked up to a TV? I would love to see some classic movies in 4K.

You know they might have had one hooked up, but the only stuff I saw was a Sony 4K demo reel of some hyper saturated looking shots of nature, cityscapes, etc.. I don't think they have anything like Skyfall on one you can load up.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For television, we’ll call 60fps….HFR

Touche' Penton-Man....

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

I was on the Sony product page for the FMP-X1. Midway down there is a section called "4K your way - rent or buy" and under that there is a little blue link that says "see all titles available".

Ah, thanks. It had been a while and I kept clicking 4K your way - Rent or buy under Features which only produced a pop up window. Hopefully, I won't forget the next time I go looking for an updated list .

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Flatnate

Touche' Penton-Man....

My favorite is the *innovative* use of the word “consultation” by a Hollywood studio executive. The others are relatively more benign.