Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[gregmasciola]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

...But other stuff - like the Rancor scene - which could have been cleaned up so much more and has always looked a little iffy.... Now while I definitely didn't want a CGI rancor stuck in there, I just can't believe that with modern tech they couldn't go back in and make the existing elements blend more seamlessly together.

But they did make them blend more seamlessly, not in the 1997 version, but in 2004 for the DVDs. Up until then, I always thought it looked a bit weird, too. You could totally see the matte lines around the rancor in certain shots, and just before Luke jams the bone in its mouth, the close-up of its mouth looked really faded, like Luke was in front of a projection screen. Now the matte lines are gone and the contrast is fixed, so I think the scene looks a whole lot better now.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by gregmasciola

But they did make them blend more seamlessly, not in the 1997 version, but in 2004 for the DVDs. Up until then, I always thought it looked a bit weird, too. You could totally see the matte lines around the rancor in certain shots, and just before Luke jams the bone in its mouth, the close-up of its mouth looked really faded, like Luke was in front of a projection screen. Now the matte lines are gone and the contrast is fixed, so I think the scene looks a whole lot better now.

Correct, they tweaked it in the later SE revisions and I think it looks pretty respectable, all things considered.

Still, while we're going on about stuff that Lucas didn't fix, I'm amazed that they haven't picked up on Artoo's black panels while he's in the X-Wing in the first movie. This one dates all the way back to 1997, they recoloured his black panels (black so as not to interfere with the compositing) to blue in Empire and Jedi but not Star Wars.

I know it's a minor thing, and if we are getting the restored originals then those panels should ALL rightfully be back to black, but it's the lack of consistency that's so jarring about the SEs. Star Wars: little to no garbage mattes, which is great, but they forgot to do Artoo's panels. Jedi: loads and loads of garbage mattes, but they did at least get around to doing Artoo's panels. Great.

If they really wanted to tart up Jedi, then why not do COOL stuff like giving the Executor a better send-off than the terrible shot that's in the final film. That shot of the AT-ST getting blown up in the forest has always looked weird too, like it's missing a VFX smoke pass or something. And I've always wanted to see the storyboarded-but-never-shot scene of a ship crashing into the Death Star's energy shield ("All craft, pull up!"). Instead we get an embiggened shot of Jabba's door, blinking Ewoks and CG added to Artoo's bunker freakout, not to mention the infamously lame "Noooo....NOOOOOOOOO!!!". Pffft.

[Kryptonic]

That mistake in TPM when you first see the Queen looking out the window and you can see the electrical cord running to her dress. I'm amazed they didn't paint that out.

[PrestigeWorldwide]

Originally Posted by radewagon

Also, for what it's worth, I think that a lot of the effects changes in the OG Star Trek were far from being innocuous. Stylistically, they stick out like sore thumbs and briefly take you out of the experience (though they never ruin it). I'm pretty surprised they were accepted so easily by the Trek community.

They're accepted primarily for two reasons:

1. The redone effects are respectful to the original intentions (no extra stupid fluff added like the SW special editions). I don't agree that the TOS changes stick out like a sore thumb. Lucas' changes stick out A LOT more than the new TOS effects.

2. You have a choice. You can completely ignore the new effects if you wish and watch the original effects.

[Ryan0503]

Originally Posted by radewagon

Out of curiosity, why do you think it is such a different film now? I agree with most people about the Jabba's Dance number being absolutely awful and changing the way the palace feels, but that's not enough of a change to make the movie feel like Attack of the Clones, is it?

Also, I know you didn't mention it, but I really love that they got rid of Sebastian Shaw at the end of Jedi. I remember growing up with Jedi and I never cared for the way that Anakin's ghost showed up at the end of the flick because I had no connection to the guy portraying him. To me, he was just some dude who had zero right to be Vader. I hated him being there.

After watching the version with Hayden replacing Shaw, seeing Anakin redeemed as a ghost finally had an emotional resonance with me. I felt happy for him. I was all like, yeah, there's the good that was in him. It's a very positive change. I honestly don't see why anyone would prefer that an actor that had such little impact on the saga be given precedent during a scene of such import.

Also, for what it's worth, I think that a lot of the effects changes in the OG Star Trek were far from being innocuous. Stylistically, they stick out like sore thumbs and briefly take you out of the experience (though they never ruin it). I'm pretty surprised they were accepted so easily by the Trek community.

Originally Posted by bongozoid

Anakin being replaced was the worst part for me... I mean, if you were Luke Skywalker, would you see that ghost and think 'Gosh, Dad, you look so happy and peaceful now!' or would you think 'Ben - who is that creepy young dude standing next to you?'

It has been so long that I probably couldn't pinpoint everything that changed the film for me, but the last time I watched it was the 2004 version it just was not the same. I'd watch it again and give you more detail, but I really don't want to.

If you still like it or consider it the best, that's cool. I just think all the changes were unnecessary and only served to distract from the original story. Things like song and dance numbers, galaxy-wide celebrations, and big beak coming out of a pit - they were all just so out of place.

Having Anakin (Hayden) at the end of Jedi didn't bother me, what bothered me was how poorly it was done. He just looked very out of place. I believe its because they just slapped his head over Shaws body. I wish they had actually shot him for this scene. Given him a haircut and made him look more like the "jedi he could have become". Yes I get that storywise it may not have made sense, but I think visually seeing him as a more mature "Jedi Master look" would have just fit.
What does kill Jedi for me is the "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" Its so terribly done and I cringe everytime I hear it. The ewoks blinking, Jabbas dance number, beak on the sarlaac, and others dont bother me. In fact I even love the end showing all the planets rejoicing the empire has been over thrown. And I love the statue of Palpatine being pulled down on Corosaunt (mainly because it reminds me of the US pulling down the statue of Saddam in Iraq ).

ps. As I have only recently got into Star Trek I loved the changes on TOS. GREAT restoration, and as was meantioned in another post, the best part is that if you dont like them you have the option to watch the original effects!!

[Geoff D]

I've actually been secretly hoping that they'd reshoot the ending with an older Hayden a few years down the line. Not only could we avoid the usual 'but he looks younger while Obi-Wan is older!' complaint, we could also get something better in terms of performance than some goofy outtake from Ep III.

Such a reshoot was highly unlikely anyway, but with George out of the frame it'll never happen, so we're stuck with creepy outtake Hayden in the SE and 'who hell he? Sebastian Shaw in the original.

[BladeRunner2007]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I've actually been secretly hoping that they'd reshoot the ending with an older Hayden a few years down the line. Not only could we avoid the usual 'but he looks younger while Obi-Wan is older!' complaint, we could also get something better in terms of performance than some goofy outtake from Ep III.

Such a reshoot was highly unlikely anyway, but with George out of the frame it'll never happen, so we're stuck with creepy outtake Hayden in the SE and 'who hell he? Sebastian Shaw in the original.

Yeah, he looks like a creepy perv. As if he's undressing someone with his eyes lol.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by radewagon

After watching the version with Hayden replacing Shaw, seeing Anakin redeemed as a ghost finally had an emotional resonance with me. I felt happy for him. I was all like, yeah, there's the good that was in him. It's a very positive change. I honestly don't see why anyone would prefer that an actor that had such little impact on the saga be given precedent during a scene of such import.

Hayden had an impact on the saga, alright. It just wasn't a positive one.

[HD Goofnut]

Are the only cuts available on DVD or BD the following?

BD - Lucas' Final Cuts
DVD - 2004 Cuts
DVD - Original Unaltered Trilogy (LD transfers)

Were the 1997 cuts ever released on DVD?

[BladeRunner2007]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

Are the only cuts available on DVD or BD the following?

BD - Lucas' Final Cuts
DVD - 2004 Cuts
DVD - Original Unaltered Trilogy (LD transfers)

Were the 1997 cuts ever released on DVD?

Yes. No the 1997 cuts are exclusive to VHS.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by BladeRunner2007

Yes. No the 1997 cuts are exclusive to VHS.

And laserdisc.

[HD Goofnut]

I wasn't sure about LD so thanks for the clarification.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Ryan0503

Having Anakin (Hayden) at the end of Jedi didn't bother me, what bothered me was how poorly it was done. He just looked very out of place. I believe its because they just slapped his head over Shaws body. I wish they had actually shot him for this scene. Given him a haircut and made him look more like the "jedi he could have become". Yes I get that storywise it may not have made sense, but I think visually seeing him as a more mature "Jedi Master look" would have just fit.

I watched the complete BD edition the other day for the first time (I've owned the set since it was released, but only watched parts of it to see the quality) and one of the things I noticed at the end is that Anakin/Hayden pops into the scene slightly after Yoda and Kenobi. I had never noticed that before and it seemed sloppy. But I don't think they just pasted Hayden's head on Shaw's body because Shaw was much heavier than Hayden and the body looks young and thin.

But IMO, using young Anakin at the end or even an aged Anakin/Hayden at the end makes no sense because Luke wouldn't know who he was. It would only have made sense if they revised the scene with Luke and Shaw to have used Hayden's (aged) face. And while there would have been major objections to that change, I think that would have made far more sense, especially if they were able to show Anakin losing his anger and hatred.

Frankly, I never even bought Shaw's character as Vader. While some critics saw it as "The Wizard of Oz" behind the mask instead of a curtain or as a Humpty Dumpty, I never bought that the old man with soft features could have been the evil Vader. And I never bought that he was redeemed. Would you ever think that Hitler or Lenin could have been redeemed? How was Vader different, even if he did kill the Emperor in the end? (And by the way, why did either Luke cutting his hand off or Vader lifting up the emperor kill Vader? - that never made sense either.)

But in the end, it's ridiculous to constantly review all the logical flaws in these films. The fact is that Lucas created an incredible world and set of characters that people love (with a few notable character exceptions). They've stood the test of time. When the OT was made, there was no home video market to speak of, so you could get away with a lot more because even logical story flaws would pass by in a few seconds and one could never really review them in detail. It's only when you look closely that you see all the flaws, so maybe people should simply stop looking, although I notice more story/script flaws every time I watch, even in TESB, for which Lucas didn't direct or write the screenplay, although he wrote the story.

[Bruce Campbell]

As a kid I always thought that the force lightning from the Emperor that was going through Vader as he lifted him up damaged the suit/respirator that was keeping Anakin alive. And once Luke took the mask off that just sped up him dying.

[Batmon77]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

(And by the way, why did either Luke cutting his hand off or Vader lifting up the emperor kill Vader? - that never made sense either.)
.

How many limbs were cybernetic?
Wasnt he a caterpillar man after melting in the molten sand?

There have been plenty of example of lightsabers slicing thru limbs without killing. I thought it cauterizes.

[blonde_devil]

Originally Posted by crazyBLUE

Wow ~ Don't think in all the years I have seen this thread turn into a Star Trek thread

Just don't mention JJ!

Honestly, I would love them to release every version including the 1997 cuts on blu-ray. If you want to see how movies can change, this is a great example. Problem is you will end up with like 5 different cuts since there are changes done all the time. I mean, there were changes to the prequel films between thier theatrical releases and home video releases that were changed again later. I think that is the problem - do you really want a 30 disc+ set for just 6 films?

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

I watched the complete BD edition the other day for the first time (I've owned the set since it was released, but only watched parts of it to see the quality) and one of the things I noticed at the end is that Anakin/Hayden pops into the scene slightly after Yoda and Kenobi. I had never noticed that before and it seemed sloppy. But I don't think they just pasted Hayden's head on Shaw's body because Shaw was much heavier than Hayden and the body looks young and thin.

But IMO, using young Anakin at the end or even an aged Anakin/Hayden at the end makes no sense because Luke wouldn't know who he was. It would only have made sense if they revised the scene with Luke and Shaw to have used Hayden's (aged) face. And while there would have been major objections to that change, I think that would have made far more sense, especially if they were able to show Anakin losing his anger and hatred.

Frankly, I never even bought Shaw's character as Vader. While some critics saw it as "The Wizard of Oz" behind the mask instead of a curtain or as a Humpty Dumpty, I never bought that the old man with soft features could have been the evil Vader. And I never bought that he was redeemed. Would you ever think that Hitler or Lenin could have been redeemed? How was Vader different, even if he did kill the Emperor in the end? (And by the way, why did either Luke cutting his hand off or Vader lifting up the emperor kill Vader? - that never made sense either.)

But in the end, it's ridiculous to constantly review all the logical flaws in these films. The fact is that Lucas created an incredible world and set of characters that people love (with a few notable character exceptions). They've stood the test of time. When the OT was made, there was no home video market to speak of, so you could get away with a lot more because even logical story flaws would pass by in a few seconds and one could never really review them in detail. It's only when you look closely that you see all the flaws, so maybe people should simply stop looking, although I notice more story/script flaws every time I watch, even in TESB, for which Lucas didn't direct or write the screenplay, although he wrote the story.

What flaws? There are no story flaws in the first three films before 1997. The flaws came in 1997 and then when they were changed to fit a trilogy that had tons of story flaws and by changing the original films to fit the flawed films the originals became flawed themselves. Sorry thats not hate but fact. How did you not buy Shaws character? In 1983 I never heard one single person ever say they didnt buy Shaws character as Vader. My challenge to anyone out there...list all the "script/story flaws" of the OT Before the SE's, before any knowledge the prequels were even going to be filmed. Plinkett has given you tons of flaws on the prequels that a blinid man can see in a minute. Go back watch the first three films, forget anything you know about the prequels then come back here and give me the list I just have to see this.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

And laserdisc.

Are these Laserdiscs anamorphic?

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by The Fallen Deity

Are these Laserdiscs anamorphic?

No, the same transfers were found on the 2006 limited DVDs.

[The Fallen Deity]

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

No, the same transfers were found on the 2006 limited DVDs.

I was referring to the Laserdiscs that contain the 1997 cuts.