Star Wars: The Complete Saga (1977-2005)

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Howdy

Nothing would make me happier than to have Disney, with Lucas's approval, change the OT one final time! They should add CGI Yoda to replace the puppet, change Darth Vaders voice by replacing James Earl Jones with a modified Christian Haydens voice, and finally, change the scene with Han and Greedo, so that Han never shoots at all. Greedo's laser blast just ricochets off the wall and he does himself in. All just to piss of the whiners off one last time.

Don't even joke about that.

[Falaskan]

Originally Posted by Howdy

Nothing would make me happier than to have Disney, with Lucas's approval, change the OT one final time! They should add CGI Yoda to replace the puppet, change Darth Vaders voice by replacing James Earl Jones with a modified Christian Haydens voice, and finally, change the scene with Han and Greedo, so that Han never shoots at all. Greedo's laser blast just ricochets off the wall and he does himself in. All just to piss of the whiners off one last time.

Maybe the blast could ricochet off Han's forehead (kinda like how Vader reflected Han's blasts with his hand) revealing Han to actually be a Sith Lord.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Bruce Campbell

Never got the hate for Jake Loyd and to me his performance was Olivier like compared to Hayden Christensen.

That poor kid...there was a recent con interview with him that is PAINFUL to watch. PAINFUL. The interviewer (amateur) was really just trying to ask him about his work on the films (really the only thing anyone would ever care about) but you can tell he's gotten so much shit in his life over that film that he was so defensive you think he's about to wail on the guy for asking if he had any of the toys, etc. ("Why would I???!!" was his defensive response - uh, I dunno, cause you were a kid who had action figures made after your likeness, that's pretty sweet.) No exaggeration, I think the guy is genuinely traumatized over it.

That said, his performance wasn't absolutely terrible, as you said - not like Wooden McWooden Pouterson. Although, truthfully, look what Lucas' directing did to Natalie Portman - so I don't entirely blame Wooden McWooden, but he just has no chemistry with anything or anyone in that film. It's difficult to tell where the bad direction begins and the poor performance kicks in there.

I think the essential problem folks have with Jake's performance isn't actually his performance - it's the role itself. Basically, Lucas neutered one of the greatest film villains in this history of film. What made Darth Vader cool was absolutely destroyed by those films. That, to me, is the essential issue with the prequels - no one asked for that to begin with. When I was a kid, no one ever said, "Gee, I wonder what Darth Vader was like as a snot nosed little kid/bratty teenager?" Lucas himself has pretty much stated that fatherhood overtook him, and he tried to "make up" for unleashing this evil character by making him "relate-able/understandable". That wasn't the original story of the prequels, either - the prequels were originally about the Clone Wars, not about the "rise of Darth Vader".

The issue was, not only did no one really have a great desire for that to begin with - Lucas just lacks the emotional ability to make what he wanted to happen work. Instead, we have a cutesy little charming boy, who suddenly turns into a bratty teenager, and then an insufferable angsty young adult with anger and mommy issues who seems more like he has an extreme case of PMS vs. the growing evil of one of the most terrifying figures in the galaxy.

I find the prequels watchable, but I honestly don't really connect them to the OT. At all. That's not the same character. Intellectually I know it's supposed to be, but there is no emotional through-line to it. They are totally separate stories to me, I just cannot connect the two together, no matter how much Lucas tried to reshape the OT to force that connection.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

King, what if they did just that to the original versions? Say they erased all the garbage mattes and matte lines, fixed all the transparencies and other compositing oddities like disappearing ships, would you honestly turn that down?

We wouldn't be having this conversation today, most likely. If that is all that had been done, it never would have become this "thing", and the anti-SE wave (nor the anti-anti-SE wave which is the most vicious of all these days) would have never occurred to any such degree as it did - it was the tonal changes that really stuck in folks minds more than anything else.

[supersonic395]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

That poor kid...there was a recent con interview with him that is PAINFUL to watch. PAINFUL. The interviewer (amateur) was really just trying to ask him about his work on the films (really the only thing anyone would ever care about) but you can tell he's gotten so much shit in his life over that film that he was so defensive you think he's about to wail on the guy for asking if he had any of the toys, etc. ("Why would I???!!" was his defensive response - uh, I dunno, cause you were a kid who had action figures made after your likeness, that's pretty sweet.) No exaggeration, I think the guy is genuinely traumatized over it.

Do you have a link to this interview/panel please?

[bongozoid]

Yeah I know it has been said on here before, but Episode I is by far the least terrible of the prequels. I personally didn't mind it at all - at least compared to some people. Attack of the Clones? Yeah... seeing Darth Vader as a moody teenager spouting some of the worst dialogue in the history of film is what killed it for me. Not to mention the CGI was WAY over the top and quite frankly not that impressive.

At least the pure terrible that was Episode II prepared me for the laugh-fest that was Episode III. The character names, the acting, the entire premise; it was like it was all designed to be ridiculous and terrible on purpose. Capped off with the hilarious "NOOOOOOOOOOOO"

However not 1 of the 3 makes any sense. None.
All I learnt from the prequels is that the Jedi were selfish and useless douchebags

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by bongozoid

Yeah I know it has been said on here before, but Episode I is by far the least terrible of the prequels. I personally didn't mind it at all - at least compared to some people. Attack of the Clones? Yeah... seeing Darth Vader as a moody teenager spouting some of the worst dialogue in the history of film is what killed it for me. Not to mention the CGI was WAY over the top and quite frankly not that impressive.

At least the pure terrible that was Episode II prepared me for the laugh-fest that was Episode III. The character names, the acting, the entire premise; it was like it was all designed to be ridiculous and terrible on purpose. Capped off with the hilarious "NOOOOOOOOOOOO"

However not 1 of the 3 makes any sense. None.
All I learnt from the prequels is that the Jedi were selfish and useless douchebags

+1
It's the best prequel by a country mile! Clones was an utter piece of garbage and Sith was not much better, well maybe quite a bit better but still very disapointing! But that second one (shudder) was just awful.

[Nailwraps]

I'm not sure if this was brought up (and I'm not searching hundreds of pages for it), but apparently, there 2 changes made to the Revenge of The Sith Blu (and this is not a joke video, it's real):

Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith Blu-ray Changes (2011) - YouTube

The optical wipe doesn't count since it was in the original theatrical version.

[svenge]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

That poor kid...there was a recent con interview with him that is PAINFUL to watch. PAINFUL. The interviewer (amateur) was really just trying to ask him about his work on the films (really the only thing anyone would ever care about) but you can tell he's gotten so much shit in his life over that film that he was so defensive you think he's about to wail on the guy for asking if he had any of the toys, etc. ("Why would I???!!" was his defensive response - uh, I dunno, cause you were a kid who had action figures made after your likeness, that's pretty sweet.) No exaggeration, I think the guy is genuinely traumatized over it.

That said, his performance wasn't absolutely terrible, as you said - not like Wooden McWooden Pouterson. Although, truthfully, look what Lucas' directing did to Natalie Portman - so I don't entirely blame Wooden McWooden, but he just has no chemistry with anything or anyone in that film. It's difficult to tell where the bad direction begins and the poor performance kicks in there.

I think the essential problem folks have with Jake's performance isn't actually his performance - it's the role itself. Basically, Lucas neutered one of the greatest film villains in this history of film. What made Darth Vader cool was absolutely destroyed by those films. That, to me, is the essential issue with the prequels - no one asked for that to begin with. When I was a kid, no one ever said, "Gee, I wonder what Darth Vader was like as a snot nosed little kid/bratty teenager?" Lucas himself has pretty much stated that fatherhood overtook him, and he tried to "make up" for unleashing this evil character by making him "relate-able/understandable". That wasn't the original story of the prequels, either - the prequels were originally about the Clone Wars, not about the "rise of Darth Vader".

The issue was, not only did no one really have a great desire for that to begin with - Lucas just lacks the emotional ability to make what he wanted to happen work. Instead, we have a cutesy little charming boy, who suddenly turns into a bratty teenager, and then an insufferable angsty young adult with anger and mommy issues who seems more like he has an extreme case of PMS vs. the growing evil of one of the most terrifying figures in the galaxy.

My rule of thumb when it comes to child actors (e.g. Jake Lloyd, but not Natalie Portman or Hayden Christensen) is that if his/her performance sucks, none the blame should not go to the kid but instead on the casting director, producer, director, and/or screenwriter as appropriate. And since Lucas was running the show and had sole creative control of the PT films, that means that it's his 100% his fault.

[Blu-21]

Originally Posted by Nailwraps

I'm not sure if this was brought up (and I'm not searching hundreds of pages for it), but apparently, there 2 changes made to the Revenge of The Sith Blu (and this is not a joke video, it's real):

Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith Blu-ray Changes (2011) - YouTube

The optical wipe doesn't count since it was in the original theatrical version.

Didn't know any of this. Lucus just couldn't help himself could he? heh..

[svenge]

Originally Posted by Blu-21

Didn't know any of this. Lucus just couldn't help himself could he? heh..

Meh. It's one thing to wantonly alter for the worse films that are cultural touchstones, it's quite another to do so to the Prequel Trilogy...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

We wouldn't be having this conversation today, most likely. If that is all that had been done, it never would have become this "thing", and the anti-SE wave (nor the anti-anti-SE wave which is the most vicious of all these days) would have never occurred to any such degree as it did - it was the tonal changes that really stuck in folks minds more than anything else.

Stop trying to turn everything into Lucas hate! I was asking Elvis about the upcoming restored versions (should they prove to be the originals), not whether he would've accepted them like that back in '97. Y'know, with all the time that's passed since the SE snafu, would he be willing NOW to accept a digitally-spruced up version if it meant that or nothing?

[Lord Method Man]

Originally Posted by bongozoid

That would involve people caring about Episode I in the first place...

Episode I is about as culturally significant as a furniture store commercial airing on local TV.

[balthazar_bee]

For the record, Natalie Portman is every bit as terrible as our man Hayden in Attack of the Clones. As a more established screen actor, it's easier to overlook I guess, but she barely seems to know what she's doing in any given scene. I've never been able to look at her the same way since.

Frankly, I think they both fare considerably better in Revenge of the Sith, a film I genuinely enjoy and admire, hmm, "in its totality"? I like parts of The Phantom Menace (I'd better, since I saw it theatrically an ungodly number of times), and there are a few isolated things in Attack of the Clones that are enjoyable...but to say that either are superior to Revenge of the Sith?

Hell, at this point I like Sith quite a bit more than Jedi, and I watched the shit out of Jedi as a kid, thinking it was the greatest movie of all time.

I think what strikes me most about ROTS is how lean it is. AOTC is a lot of pointless, weightless dialogue exchanges (not exactly GL's "for-tay") and scenes of spaceships taking off and arriving, while the always-reliable John Williams tries desperately to add a bit of gravity. (Even this was sabotaged at the editing stage, with Lucas and Burtt reusing several TPM cues to distracting and none-too-impressive effect.) It's the longest of the prequels, as I recall, and roughly half of the movie has exactly zero dramatic impact.

Just look at the opening scene -- almost certainly the worst scene in Star Wars history -- which has all of the film's biggest flaws on parade: A spaceship arrives, there's an explosion, followed by a poorly-written/delivered-yet-supposedly-weighty dialogue scene (that I'm still convinced makes very little sense), then a wipe transition to an anonymous room in Coruscant and some more of the same.

Every time I watch ROTS, I marvel at how much momentum it has. At the halfway point, I suddenly realize that the final act of the film is about to start, and I can't believe how quickly the time has passed. There's no fat on it. AOTC, by comparison, has no meat.

TPM is somewhere in between. A reasonably involving story, with a few questionable scenes (or scenes that wear out their welcome), culminating in a spectacular duel that tends to redeem everything that came before.

Just one guy's opinion. Might as well talk about this, since I'm sure some of us are tired of repeating, "Release the OUT already!"

[klauswhereareyou]

Phantom Menace had some of the worst moments of the prequels, and but also some of the best. Still my favorite of the prequels. There was a sense of wonderment and scope there lacking in the other two films...not sure if that has to do with the fact that the other two films amped up the dehumanising CGI and used digital cameras, making it feel like sci-fi television instead of a Star Wars movie.

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by Lord Method Man

Episode I is about as culturally significant as a furniture store commercial airing on local TV.

That's a ridiculous statement. Whether you love it or hate it, TPM *IS* absolutely culturally significant.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by IndyMLVC

That's a ridiculous statement. Whether you love it or hate it, TPM *IS* absolutely culturally significant.

In what way? What did Episode I add to the cultural zeitgeist? Midichlorians? Meesa thinkin? Roger roger?

It was definitely a big deal but so is every Super Bowl. As an institution the Super Bowl is culturally significant. But individual Super Bowls? Not so much. They tend to come and go.

Is Episode I really any more culturally significant than Super Bowl XXXIII?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Phantom Menace had some of the worst moments of the prequels, and but also some of the best. Still my favorite of the prequels. There was a sense of wonderment and scope there lacking in the other two films...not sure if that has to do with the fact that the other two films amped up the dehumanising CGI and used digital cameras, making it feel like sci-fi television instead of a Star Wars movie.

Actually for me one of the absolute best moments in Episode I was not only CGI but CGI of the all encompassing variety that presaged Avatar - the approach to the underwater city was absolutely breath-taking. I like to refer to the appearance of the Imperial cruiser at the beginning of Star Wars as a 'we're not in Kansas anymore' moment and this was very much like that.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by klauswhereareyou

Phantom Menace had some of the worst moments of the prequels, and but also some of the best. Still my favorite of the prequels. There was a sense of wonderment and scope there lacking in the other two films...not sure if that has to do with the fact that the other two films amped up the dehumanising CGI and used digital cameras, making it feel like sci-fi television instead of a Star Wars movie.

I agree. If you take out Jar Jar and replace the kid with one who can act that movie could suddenly be respectable. The other two could never be respectable (for me, of course).

[IndyMLVC]

Originally Posted by octagon

In what way? What did Episode I add to the cultural zeitgeist? Midichlorians? Meesa thinkin? Roger roger?

It was definitely a big deal but so is every Super Bowl. As an institution the Super Bowl is culturally significant. But individual Super Bowls? Not so much. They tend to come and go.

Is Episode I really any more culturally significant than Super Bowl XXXIII?

Content-wise, Ep1 is irrelevant.

As an event, it certainly is culturally significant. The Superbowl happens every year and I'm going to bet that there are more people worldwide that care about Star Wars than 1 recurring American football game. Not even a competition.

[klauswhereareyou]

Originally Posted by octagon

Actually for me one of the absolute best moments in Episode I was not only CGI but CGI of the all encompassing variety that presaged Avatar - the approach to the underwater city was absolutely breath-taking. I like to refer to the appearance of the Imperial cruiser at the beginning of Star Wars as a 'we're not in Kansas anymore' moment and this was very much like that.

I agree, what I'm saying is that eps.II/III threw CGI all over the place which many times was overly distracting because they were at times very poorly done, and also just made the films visually look like clutered messes. Genosis, Kamino, Lava land from ROTS looked more like levels out of a video game than real worlds. Probably because unlike Naboo, they were all mosly done in a computer (but hey we got a compositied Mt. Etna in lava land or whatever the heck it was called in Sith).