Rambo (2008) Extended Cut 7/27

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Spike Killer

I'm not sure why people claim the violence was stripped or that this is an edited version of the Theatrical Cut. Cliff when talking about this cut explained that some of less realistic scenes of violence have been eliminated, leaving just the good stuff. Apparently there was concern that some of the CGI blood didn't look convincing enough. So a few frames were trimmed to make it less obvious (according to Cliff).

No. All the unrealistic violence is still within the movie. They removed some of the realistic violence (rape, shots of corpses, knife stabbing, kid being shot and stabbed, woman getting her clothes ripped off, man beaten with a stone) . As I said before: There's no bad CGI in the shots they removed. Or I must have missed that the woman's breasts were CGI .

Originally Posted by dvdvision

Ah yes, the village massacre scene felt different and the action more violent to me, and after comparing both cuts, (at first I thought more violence was added), I realised why : by removing a few over the top instances, it made the rest stand out and be more effective, and as a whole, the scene more violent. In other words less is more.

You might not like the kid being shot in full deleted, but the emotional impact of this shot distracted from the rest of the scene. Same goes for the woman being raped, and the additional shot of the guy rolling with his legs cut off.

That's something about filmmaking. it's not about having all the pieces cut together, and be happy with it, it's about knowing what to remove, so that the scene plays with more impact.

Now it's starting to become a bit ridiculous... Less is less here IMO. Simple as that. If you prefer the EE, that's fine, but I cannot follow your explanation at all.

First you say, they added other violent scenes instead, now you say, they didn't, but the movie is more violent because it contains less violence .

[ScarredLungs]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

The two kids, the man was running away with, in the village scene (one being shot while leaning on a wooden bar; the other being killed with a bayonet while lying on the ground).

We've spotted even more cuts in the meantime... (I've just made a "so far" list here, but I wrote it in German). Maybe you can translate it with babelfish. (I don't have the time right now, to translate it for you.)

For anyone who is interested, here is the English translation (From German) that Andreasy969 has created. I placed it in spoilers so no one has to read if they choose not to.

[Show spoiler]- Offscreen shooting of the pirates on the boat
- Killing two children in the village scene
- Rape in the village scene
- Man with no legs after explosion in the village scene
- Lack of body shots / Hanged arrival at village
- Stabbed in the side at the "Veranda Scene"
- "Breast censorship" at the chaos in the village at night
- Shorter "Kehl scene"
- Removal of inserts showing the bloody head in the "Michael Stone thrashing scene
-The joke is that the whole Splatterkram - as far as I can tell - is still in there.

[BStecke]

For the $13.86 that Wal Mart has it for, I'll check it out. I loved the theatrical cut, but was expecting more Rocky Balboa-esque character development and was disappointed that it was a bit lacking in that area, so I'm hoping this will be a bit more what I was expecting.

[andreasy969]

Since the generated (?) translation (in parts) is just awful, I made it on my own (I hope it's better ):

[Show spoiler]- the pirate on the boat is shot offscreen (the pirate is not shown)
- killing of two children in the village scene
- rape in the village scene
- man with no legs after explosion in the village scene
- missing shots of bodies / hanged people at the arrival in the village
- knife killing is shortened at the "veranda scene" (no more stabbing in the side of the soldier)
- "breast censorship" at the chaos in the village at night
- shorter "throat ripping scene"
- removal of a shot, showing the bloody head of the soldier, in the scene where Michael is hitting a soldier with a stone

I also want to make sure, that you don't get me wrong on this one: I'm not saying, that the EE is bad. It's not at all, and I even liked some of the additional footage. But all in all I prefer the TC. I also wanted to point out, that there are some cuts, that I didn't think would fall into the category "bad CGI removal", and that some people maybe would like to know about. That's all - enjoy whatever version you prefer .

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

Like I already said somewhere else: Rambo isn't a character study, it's a gory action flick. And in this category, the TC was at its best.

As far as Rambo not being a character study... I think Sylvester Stallone would disagree with you. You have to remember (if you knew this in the first place) that John Rambo and First Blood are based on a novel by David Morrell. Morrell certainly didn't create Rambo as a "gory action flick" protagonist and that wasn't Stallone's goal in the most recent movie either. In fact, David Morrell had a lot of praise for what Stallone did with the character in the latest film. Here is his critique:

Overall, I'm pleased. The level of violence might not be for everyone, but it has a serious intent. This is the first time that the tone of First Blood the novel has been used in any of the movies. It's spot-on in terms of how I imagined the character--angry, burned-out, and filled with self-disgust because he hates what he is and yet knows it's the only thing he does well.

The character spends a lot of time in the rain as if trying to cleanse himself. There's a nightmare scene involving vivid images from the three previous films, all emphasizing the burden of his memories. There's a scene in which he forges a knife and talks to himself, basically admitting that he hates himself because all he knows is how to kill. At the start, he is gathering snakes in the jungle, and he's so comfortable with them, it's as if the most developed part of him is his limbic brain. In the violent climax, he uses a machine gun that explicitly evokes the way William Holden uses a machine gun at the end of The Wild Bunch . Indeed a whole lot of the film has Peckinpah overtones while it also uses tropes from my novel.

Again, for example, Rambo is being hunted by dogs. It's not a 4-star movie--the villains are superficial, and the climax is overextended. But this is a solid three stars. It's daring--an anti-war Rambo movie. Even the New York Times treated it well. I was surprised to discover that Stallone, who directed, gives me an additional credit. The contractual one is a single card "created by" credit before the names of the screenwriters. But then, at the end, after the final surprising, poetic, redeeming sequence, another credit says "From the novel First Blood by David Morrell," as if acknowledging that the series has returned to the intent of my book. That's not the way Hollywood usually treats a novelist. To say again, the violence is a solid R, but the intent in terms of the character is serious. I was blown away.

That's ALL character Morrell is talking about and he would certainly know... he created him.

Originally Posted by andreasy969

I'm not so certain about that point anymore. There's no source, that confirms this 100 percent. I know the interviews and I know about the bad CGI thing, but if I look at the cuts, I don't see bad CGI removal, but cuts that look like (!) (self)censorship. Why did they remove a breast shot, a rape scene or a knife killing for example? Why doesn't it say DC on the cover?

Alright, I'll explain all of this in just a second, but I'm genuinely interested in know why you think this. I really want to know where the doubt come in in someone's mind. Why do feel this release isn't an honest and true director's cut? When you say "Why did THEY remove a breast shot..." who do you think THEY are? I'm not trying to trap you in an answer, I'm really searching for how people formulate opinions as to the how's and why's something happened without having actually been there.

Alright, here's how this went down. We were completing the Blu-ray for the theatrical edition in late March 2008 and all of the bonus features, the film, commentary, new audio mix had all been delivered and were being authored for a late May street date and everyone was happy. I get an email on April 8th, 2008 (I still have the email) saying Sly has decided that he wants to do a director's cut. Now also please understand that even the editor of the movie didn't know what this was going to mean because what they had delivered as the theatrical cut was ALSO the director's cut. There were no cuts imposed on Sly from either the MPAA or Lionsgate for that theatrical. But in the process of working on the Blu-ray and seeing the deleted scenes again, he started to regret having cut them and wanted to see them back in the film. He also started to see little things here and there that he felt could be tweaked now that the pressure of having to make the theatrical release date was no longer there. Understand that most theatrical cuts are not "final" cuts as much as they are they "finally" ran out of time cuts. Rambo is no different.

So with only six weeks until the DVD and Blu-ray come out, there were choices to be made... Delay the disc and QUICKLY RUSH a new cut to try and make a June or July street date, Delay the disc until the fall and give Sly a few months to really get it done (remember, it's not just the recut, you also have to do a new sound mix and get the whole thing finished in post with color correction, new titles), or release the theatrical disc that was now almost ready to press as scheduled and give Sly as much time as he needed to do his new cut and then find a good time to release it.
Well, nobody wanted to delay the original disc from coming out. When a major title is released it's sort of pre-sold to various retailers and places like Target, Best Buy and Wal-Mart essentially agree to buy copies and have them placed in premium locations for release week. There's also print and TV advertising that's already been completed and bought to match that May 27 release date. If a title is dropped off the schedule, it kind of screws up the plans for a lot of people. We also didn't want to have to rush Sly to get this new cut created as it would have been precisely the same kind of release date pressure he was under to complete the theatrical. The idea was to give him the time and space to do what he really wanted to do.

As far as the claim that there is no source that this was all Sly's doing, all I can offer is this. I sat in Sly's office last March as he excitedly showed me all of the changes he made in the final cut and going over all the little bits of alternate dialog and shots. That's about as definitive a first-hand account as I can offer (short of Sly coming here and telling you himself).

Originally Posted by andreasy969

I actually didn't like this extended scene at all. In the TC, they split up, with John not going to help them. In the next scene, you first only see the boat, and then (surprise) you see that John obviously has changed his mind. I liked that. The "why" was not important to me, and I liked the reason to stay hidden/a secret. John never was a talker.


And I much more preferred the flow of the TC. To each his own .

You're right, to each his own. I love the new scene because you really get to hear the regret from Rambo that he wasted his life fighting a fight that never changed anything and then having Sarah call him out on why he won't help them. It's the motivation the movie needs to drive the next scene and the movie forward and in the theatrical cut it's completely missing. You liked the mystery of that scene, and I can't argue that with you, but I see the scene as the wave that moves the water (the movie) forward.

And one final note about the violence. It's kind of coming across like this is a toned down, almost TV-friendly cut with a bunch of violence cut. That's absolutely not true. The movie is still insanely violent, with probably about .006% of the violence trimmed overall. There's one last thing people need to consider... When a movie as violent as Rambo is first edited and submitted to the MPAA, the filmmakers often throw in extra bits of violence they don't really want so that if they're forced to cut stuff, they can go to the extra bits (that they didn't really want in the first place) first and keep the stuff they really want. It's a trick that is very common in movies and we included in the original featurettes that everyone involved was surprised when the theatrical cut came back with an R rating (all expecting some cuts were going to have to be made). I'll ask Sean Albertson (the editor) if the violence trims were stuff they never planned to include in the first place.

[Sweetmeats]

Thanks so much Cliff. I'm looking forward to this. Will you be helping with The Expendables as well?

[andreasy969]

@Cliff
Thanks for your explanation (and your time!).

Regarding your question:

but I'm genuinely interested in know why you think this

Bad experience especially if you are living in Germany, where you are confronted with censorship on movies like Rambo all the time, and because of the fact, that the EE was shown on TV first. I have to agree of course, that such "censorship" doesn't make much sense on an Unrated blu-ray release, but it looks like it, if you know the original version. And as a matter of fact, I just don't like it, if things, that were in a movie, and that didn't seem out of place (to me), are removed.

EDIT: I forgot the simple fact, that the cover doesn't state DC, but EE.

Regarding:

As far as Rambo not being a character study

I see your point, but I would've preferred it, if they kept in all the stuff, that was in, and added the new "character" footage in addition to the other changes (moving of the "field scene" for example). But some of the additional stuff I just didn't like (the talk in the rain for the reason I mentioned).

I'll ask Sean Albertson (the editor) if the violence trims were stuff they never planned to include in the first place.

That would be interesting .

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by andreasy969

EDIT: I forgot the simple fact, that the cover doesn't state DC, but EE.

Right, sorry. Forgot to answer that (I meant to). The cover is all marketing. Calling it an extended edition was actually originally my idea. When they came back to me saying Sly wanted to do a director's cut, I pointed out that the Theatrical Cut was also the director's cut. So rather than to give the impression that Sly was overruled on his theatrical cut by either the MPAA or Lionsgate, I suggested we call it an extended cut because both were director's cuts. I also mentioned to LG that the film was now called John Rambo and they should consider altering the cover to reflect that, but I think they felt that would only cause confusion with consumers. So the cover and it's terminology was really just a coin flip in terms of how things were labeled and identified.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by Sweetmeats

Thanks so much Cliff. I'm looking forward to this. Will you be helping with The Expendables as well?

You're welcome.....

























and yes.

[Sweetmeats]

Very cool. Make us proud!

[Dickieduvet]

Watched the EE edition tonight, Bloody loved it. Seemed to flow better than the theatrical version and the new scenes really added something to the Movie, Top job

[drtre81]

I haven't seen either unfortunately but I'll pick up the new version just to support my BFF CLIFF.

Hope it's really the definitive version.

[OldPangYau]

Originally Posted by Cliff

You're welcome.....








and yes.

WOO! Hopefully it'll make it to blu-ray by December 21st... last Tuesday before Christmas Don't get me wrong, I'm seeing The Expendables opening weekend... just putting the blu-ray out there

Btw, a bit OT, but how does someone land a job like yours? I've done a ton of DVD work in both fan-made personal DVDs and for a local business but never really worked on any mainstream projects.

[markbr]

I'm really looking forward to picking this up sounds much better, I will still keep my original. The art work on the front looks really good, Does it come with a slip cover ????

[demoni]

Originally Posted by markbr

I'm really looking forward to picking this up sounds much better, I will still keep my original. The art work on the front looks really good, Does it come with a slip cover ????

Exactly what I'm gonna do as well. Gonna have them both.

[Simon_LDT]

Does this have a commentary track? Would surely be interesting to hear one.

[andreasy969]

Originally Posted by Simon_LDT

Does this have a commentary track?

No.

[Dickieduvet]

Originally Posted by markbr

I'm really looking forward to picking this up sounds much better, I will still keep my original. The art work on the front looks really good, Does it come with a slip cover ????

No slipcover

[markbr]

Thanks, but I'm gutted now no slip.... I will still pick it up next week.

[SixSpeedSamurai]

Originally Posted by markbr

Thanks, but I'm gutted now no slip.... I will still pick it up next week.

I think they are nice too, but it is just a piece of cardboard. The extra 9 minutes of killinating far outweighs that.