The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Extended Edition (November 4th, 2013) Pre-orders

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by Mithrandir-Grey

Has Warner recently lost the rights to LOTR?

They never had them in the UK. They've always been distributed by Entertainment Film Distributors and Entertainment in Video. Warner Bros. UK would have to do a deal with EiV to get the rights for a boxset.

Who knows the likelihood of that happening?

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by FastAndFluid

I think someone's getting confused about the difference between New Line and Warner Brothers when in reality they're now the same company.

Nope. New Line sold the LOTR rights to Entertainment in Video for the UK. They'd have to reach a deal (or wait for the EiV contract to expire - which it might not actually ever do) for there to be a combined boxset.

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

Nope. New Line sold the LOTR rights to Entertainment in Video for the UK. They'd have to reach a deal (or wait for the EiV contract to expire - which it might not actually ever do) for there to be a combined boxset.

They'll definitely be a deal, just like Warners dealt with EiV to put out the theatrical and extended boxsets the same time here as the rest of the world. Warners aren't going to forgo a Middle-Earth boxset in the UK just because of having to pay some royalties to EiV and EiV aren't going to turn down money for nothing if Warners want to put out a boxset. After all, it's only the same situation as the Die Hard boxsets (Fox/BV) and the Bond boxsets (MGM/Fox/Sony)

Also, EiV will lose the rights, probably by that point. All of their other New Lines films have started reverting back to Warners after a period of ten years (which is why you can get Warner versions of Blade and Blade II but Blade: Trinity is still EiV; same with the Final Destination films). As LOTR was always a trilogy the likelihood is their ten year license will come to an end at the end of this year (ten years since the release of Return of the King).

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by Buddy Ackerman

They'll definitely be a deal, just like Warners dealt with EiV to put out the theatrical and extended boxsets the same time here as the rest of the world. Warners aren't going to forgo a Middle-Earth boxset in the UK just because of having to pay some royalties to EiV and EiV aren't going to turn down money for nothing if Warners want to put out a boxset. After all, it's only the same situation as the Die Hard boxsets (Fox/BV) and the Bond boxsets (MGM/Fox/Sony)

Also, EiV will lose the rights, probably by that point. All of their other New Lines films have started reverting back to Warners after a period of ten years (which is why you can get Warner versions of Blade and Blade II but Blade: Trinity is still EiV; same with the Final Destination films). As LOTR was always a trilogy the likelihood is their ten year license will come to an end at the end of this year (ten years since the release of Return of the King).

Yes, it's likely, but if the pricepoint is too low, EiV might not do it. Especially if it stops them charging £30/40 for the EE boxset of LOTR...

And it would depend on how their deal works. The Weinstein Company films are (or at least were) sold in packages rather than an overall output deal, so the deal could vary per block of films. If it was a first look deal or under a different contract to Blade/Final Destination the rights could lie with EiV for a long time...

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

Yes, it's likely, but if the pricepoint is too low, EiV might not do it. Especially if it stops them charging £30/40 for the EE boxset of LOTR...

And it would depend on how their deal works. The Weinstein Company films are (or at least were) sold in packages rather than an overall output deal, so the deal could vary per block of films. If it was a first look deal or under a different contract to Blade/Final Destination the rights could lie with EiV for a long time...

I think you're overestimating EiV as a company and how much they can fiight Warners if they wanted to put out a boxset Besides which, there's no real reason for them to fight them.

I know what you're saying but I think it's overdramatising a situation that we both know deep down - from past, similar releases - will turn out fine. If EiV still have the rights (and I doubt they will as all New Line films from before, during and after the LOTR period have had 10 year contracts so there's no reason why LOTR will be any different, despite how big a hit it turned out to be) then Warners paying them their standard royalties to release them would be money for nothing for them. There is no logical reason why they'd say no - they're a tiny company, do you think they'd turn down Warners money? Or risk pricing themselves out of it? Even taking your point of the LOTR EE boxsets - they're going for £25 in HMV now, how low do you think they'll be by then? A re-release like this revitalises people's interest and puts more money in their pocket than a 4 year old boxset will be doing so at that point. Again, they bowed to Warners on when and how to release the theatrical and extended eidtion boxsets. So far they've worked together. There's nothing to suggest this will be anything different.

We won't find out for another couple of years (although if we start seeing WB LOTR discs next year then that may answer it) but I honestly think your line of reasoning is more of a what if/worse case scenario that won't come to pass.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by Buddy Ackerman

I think you're overestimating EiV as a company and how much they can fiight Warners if they wanted to put out a boxset Besides which, there's no real reason for them to fight them.

I know what you're saying but I think it's overdramatising a situation that we both know deep down - from past, similar releases - will turn out fine. If EiV still have the rights (and I doubt they will as all New Line films from before, during and after the LOTR period have had 10 year contracts so there's no reason why LOTR will be any different, despite how big a hit it turned out to be) then Warners paying them their standard royalties to release them would be money for nothing for them. There is no logical reason why they'd say no - they're a tiny company, do you think they'd turn down Warners money? Or risk pricing themselves out of it? Even taking your point of the LOTR EE boxsets - they're going for £25 in HMV now, how low do you think they'll be by then? A re-release like this revitalises people's interest and puts more money in their pocket than a 4 year old boxset will be doing so at that point. Again, they bowed to Warners on when and how to release the theatrical and extended eidtion boxsets. So far they've worked together. There's nothing to suggest this will be anything different.

We won't find out for another couple of years (although if we start seeing WB LOTR discs next year then that may answer it) but I honestly think your line of reasoning is more of a what if/worse case scenario that won't come to pass.

Maybe I am making a melodrama of it, but my brain goes "there's a chance it might not happen, therefore assume it won't and warn everybody else that it might not". Whilst the likelihood is that things will be sorted, I wouldn't assume it. For are a start we don't even know Warner Bros. UK want a boxset they might decide the effort and deal making involved isn't worth it.

Optimists annoy me, come live in the real world, where things aren't guaranteed and applying logic to situations is futile effort, because nobody acts on logic anymore...

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

Optimists annoy me, come live in the real world, where things aren't guaranteed and applying logic to situations is futile effort, because nobody acts on logic anymore...

And people with that sort of pessimism are just as bad as overly-optimistic people because both are extremes compared to real life situations. Nothing is perfect but nothing is all-bad as well.

And logic still works - not everyone may act in a logical manner but "nobody acts on logic anymore" is just nonsense hyperbole and, even as a huge pessimist (which is what you come across as with statements like that but apologies if you don't consider yourself as such), you have to be intelligent enough to see that that statement is false. But in situations like this where there's clear logic and clear precedent in place then you can make an educated guess as to what will happen. And, if you don't believe in logic, then precedent is all you can go by and that still argues in favour of this.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue optimism vs. pessimism (personally, I'd count myself as neither, more of a realist although this is a phrase that often gets co-opted by pessimists). But I'll say this - if a Middle-Earth boxset is released widely in the US I bet you £10 that we'll get it in the UK. Genuine bet. I won't hold anything against you for not taking a cash bet on an internet forum of course, I'd be surprised if you did, but I'm confident enough of this to offer it - and not based on optimism, based on logic and precedent.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by Buddy Ackerman

And people with that sort of pessimism are just as bad as overly-optimistic people because both are extremes compared to real life situations. Nothing is perfect but nothing is all-bad as well.

And logic still works - not everyone may act in a logical manner but "nobody acts on logic anymore" is just nonsense hyperbole and, even as a huge pessimist (which is what you come across as with statements like that but apologies if you don't consider yourself as such), you have to be intelligent enough to see that that statement is false. But in situations like this where there's clear logic and clear precedent in place then you can make an educated guess as to what will happen. And, if you don't believe in logic, then precedent is all you can go by and that still argues in favour of this.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue optimism vs. pessimism (personally, I'd count myself as a realist although this is a phrase that often gets co-opted by pessimists). But I'll say this - if a Middle-Earth boxset is released in the US I bet you £10 that we'll get it in the UK. Genuine bet. I won't hold anything against you for not taking a cash bet on an internet forum of course, I'd be surprised if you did, but I'm confident enough of this to offer it - and not based on optimism, based on logic and precedent.

I don't gamble.

And there may be precedent of co-operation between major studios, but have EiV or a similar size studio ever done it before? You'll just argue that they haven't had a similar situation before, and indie companies generally don't end up with blockbusters on their books, so lets not bother continuing with this.

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

I don't gamble.

And there may be precedent of co-operation between major studios, but have EiV or a similar size studio ever done it before? You'll just argue that they haven't had a similar situation before, and indie companies generally don't end up with blockbusters on their books, so lets not bother continuing with this.

As I've said twice before - the EiV release of LOTR in both theatrical and extended was done in co-operation with Warners, both in content, packaging and release date (it's not like they knocked out copies before Warners chose to which, if they had the freedom and intent to do so, they could have done). So yes, there has been co-operation between the two and, as I've said before, there is nothing to indicate that EiV will turn down the chance to do so again and get money for nothing.

But fair enough, this is just back and forth now. Hope none of what I've said has been taken personally, none of it was intended as such - just a healthy debate

[Brightstar]

Originally Posted by Buddy Ackerman

Of course it will happen - just not until Christmas 2015.

That's good i will hold on to my LOTR box and not buy the hobbit films till 2015

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Buddy Ackerman

Also, EiV will lose the rights, probably by that point. All of their other New Lines films have started reverting back to Warners after a period of ten years (which is why you can get Warner versions of Blade and Blade II but Blade: Trinity is still EiV; same with the Final Destination films). As LOTR was always a trilogy the likelihood is their ten year license will come to an end at the end of this year (ten years since the release of Return of the King).

Originally Posted by Buddy Ackerman

If EiV still have the rights (and I doubt they will as all New Line films from before, during and after the LOTR period have had 10 year contracts so there's no reason why LOTR will be any different, despite how big a hit it turned out to be)... We won't find out for another couple of years (although if we start seeing WB LOTR discs next year then that may answer it)

The Lord of the Rings blu-rays are being released through Warner Brothers next month. So the above debate could have been avoided if we'd have waited a couple of weeks...

So there'll be nothing to stop Warners releasing a boxset of the complete Middle-Earth saga when The Hobbit trilogy is complete. The only question is when we'll see it. My guess is a theatrical boxset of the six mid-2015 and possibly a boxset of the extended films for Christmas 2015. However, for the latter, they may hold off until the next September (2016), just like they did for the deluxe Harry Potter and Dark Knight sets. Who knows, maybe we'll get all three with the third boxset having extras and special packaging like the HP and DK ones.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by Buddy Ackerman

The Lord of the Rings blu-rays are being released through Warner Brothers next month. So the above debate could have been avoided if we'd have waited a couple of weeks...

So there'll be nothing to stop Warners releasing a boxset of the complete Middle-Earth saga when The Hobbit trilogy is complete. The only question is when we'll see it. My guess is a theatrical boxset of the six mid-2015 and possibly a boxset of the extended films for Christmas 2015. However, for the latter, they may hold off until the next September (2016), just like they did for the deluxe Harry Potter and Dark Knight sets. Who knows, maybe we'll get all three with the third boxset having extras and special packaging like the HP and DK ones.

I spotted this earlier. It doesn't mean they will (but let's not go there).

The question is, will the contents of the LOTR reissues be any different (besides the obvious) from the EiV release...

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

I spotted this earlier. It doesn't mean they will (but let's not go there).

The question is, will the contents of the LOTR reissues be any different (besides the obvious) from the EiV release...

Whether they will release a full Middle-Earth boxset? Well of course we won't know that for sure but there's no doubt in my mind that Warners wouldn't miss that opportunity. Still, the debate of whether or not they can is at least settled, which is what we were going back and forth on originally.

And no, I don't believe there will be any difference - all of the other New Line/EiV titles changed over to Warners with no difference in extras - it was merely a rebrand. And the Warners LOTR releases in the US had the same extras as we did anyway (12 rated material on the FOTR:EE release aside, which I believe we got on TTT:EE instead) and the PQ/AQ masters are the same so there's not really any changes to be made. EiV's release was a straight port from the Warners release.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by Buddy Ackerman

Whether they will release a full Middle-Earth boxset? Well of course we won't know that for sure but there's no doubt in my mind that Warners wouldn't miss that opportunity. Still, the debate of whether or not they can is at least settled, which is what we were going back and forth on originally.

And no, I don't believe there will be any difference - all of the other New Line/EiV titles changed over to Warners with no difference in extras - it was merely a rebrand. And the Warners LOTR releases in the US had the same extras as we did anyway (12 rated material on the FOTR:EE release aside, which I believe we got on TTT:EE instead) and the PQ/AQ masters are the same so there's not really any changes to be made. EiV's release was a straight port from the Warners release.

The US releases had Portuguese audio, do you reckon Warner will just port that?

And I hadn't heard about the rearranging of bonus material on the LOTR boxset, will have to look for more information...

[Buddy Ackerman]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

The US releases had Portuguese audio, do you reckon Warner will just port that?

And I hadn't heard about the rearranging of bonus material on the LOTR boxset, will have to look for more information...

No idea about Portuguese audio, I'm not even going to try and guess on that one

It's the MTV Movie Awards sketch that spoofs the Council of Elrond scene. It's hardly essential but it was rated 12 and so couldn't be included as an easter egg on the FOTR:EE like it was on the US version. I'm not 100% that it got moved to The Two Towers for us but I remember watching it and I only have the UK editions.

[Buzz201]

Originally Posted by Buddy Ackerman

No idea about Portuguese audio, I'm not even going to try and guess on that one

It's the MTV Movie Awards sketch that spoofs the Council of Elrond scene. It's hardly essential but it was rated 12 and so couldn't be included as an easter egg on the FOTR:EE like it was on the US version. I'm not 100% that it got moved to The Two Towers for us but I remember watching it and I only have the UK editions.

I'm sure I saw the MTV sketch on disc 1 of FOTR:EE. At least we aren't missing anything...

[BaerGriggs]

Originally Posted by Buzz201

I'm sure I saw the MTV sketch on disc 1 of FOTR:EE. At least we aren't missing anything...

Did the features from the exclusive DVD from the DVD gift sets get ported over to the Bluray? I picked them up a few months ago and they're pretty cool features

[chip75]

Originally Posted by BaerGriggs

Did the features from the exclusive DVD from the DVD gift sets get ported over to the Bluray? I picked them up a few months ago and they're pretty cool features

The Costa Botes documentaries? They're on the extended BDs.

[BaerGriggs]

Originally Posted by chip75

The Costa Botes documentaries? They're on the extended BDs.

No, the DVD gift sets with the statues each had an exclusive DVD. I'm not home to check mine right now but I remember TTT had one all about Gollum, one was some type of National Geographic special, and another on the symphony for the soundtrack I think.

[FilmFanSam]

does anyone know if the UV copy that comes with this will be the extended edition? or will it be the same UV copy as the one released a few months ago?