Charles Bronson on Blu-ray

[stuartalex]

Originally Posted by BrianS

It's exactly what I stated: the theatrical edit, like most studio controlled films seen in the theater since forever. It contains different angles because it is a different edit as opposed to just scissors taken to the film. Hopefully you don't consider hays code era films all "null and void".

And as you've already been corrected several times by other posters I believe it is NOT the theatrical version. It may be the theatrical version you saw in a US cinema but its not the theatrical version as signed off by the director or as released anywhere else in the world.

It's the cut R version unique to the US which has some brief alternate angles that do nothing even close to making up for the footage that is completely missing- including one single edit of 99 seconds.
The theatrical version is the one released practically everywhere else.

As for Hays Code movies - it depends. If longer versions were screened elsewhere then a censored US version certainly would be null and void .
One of the early Tarzan movies for example has had the Hays edits restored but you have to factor in whether the complete uncut version was actually shown elsewhere anyway or whether the Hays edits are available to restore after all this time.

I'm sure there are many Hays versions of films which would , for various reasons have to be considered the definitive version.

But Death Wish 2 in it's R version is a censored movie for which the uncut version has always been available in much of the rest of the world which is why the R version is of as much interest as an R rated edit of the 1978 Dawn of the Dead would be.
Would you stick up for that too?

[stuartalex]

Originally Posted by murphywmm

I have to laugh at this poster acting like Death Wish II is some kind of high art. It's a good sleazy fun action movie. That's why most people don't care too much about it being slightly edited. I'm not going to lose sleep because my blu-ray copy is missing a few rape thrusts and a bit of gore. I'm grateful to have it on HD at all. I doubt we will ever get another release of it.

.

And I have to laugh at those like you . I'm sure the studios love you- for whom having it in HD is the be all and end all.
So what if its not high art.
Neither are the majority of movies discussed on this forum ( specially those starring Charles Bronson) yet a censored release would be unacceptable for any other movie.

It may be good sleazy fun but the same could be said for Dawn of the Dead , Re- Animator and numerous other movies for which you would find collectors refusing to buy if the release was cut.

I agree its doubtful the US will get another HD release but there are plenty of other territories where the uncut version was released on dvd so I'm sure an uncut version will appear somewhere else at some point.

Had you ever seen the uncut version you'd know that your apparent opinion of what is missing is completely inaccurate.

The British release of the original I Spit On Your Grave has always been cut , sometimes substitutions used to cover lost footage but a reflection of how censored movies are worthless is nicely illustrated by the value the release goes for on Amazon - and in a very nice package too.

[stuartalex]

Originally Posted by Jompa

Yes, i saw the film for the first time on Blu-ray last year, so i haven't seen the uncut version. I probably won't see it either. I do enjoy the film on Blu-ray. I won't enjoy it more on DVD just because it has a longer rape scene.

It has a longer rape scene at the start , the scene featuring the rape of Kerseys daughter is almost non existent in the R version and her death is also toned down from the original edit - the latter was even cleared by the UK BBFC for an 18 although I do appreciate that if you saw the film for the first time ever in a cut version you may not even notice the edits but they do add up to several minutes.

Tying in with the earlier comment about the film not being high art or just wanting to see bad guys get shot , the preference for lossless audio on such a low budget film seems slightly odd.

[Early Memphis]

@stuartalex : Sir, please allow me to introduce you to my friend, the MultiQuote Button.

[AKORIS]

Originally Posted by stuartalex

And I have to laugh at those like you . I'm sure the studios love you- for whom having it in HD is the be all and end all.
So what if its not high art.
Neither are the majority of movies discussed on this forum ( specially those starring Charles Bronson) yet a censored release would be unacceptable for any other movie.

It may be good sleazy fun but the same could be said for Dawn of the Dead , Re- Animator and numerous other movies for which you would find collectors refusing to buy if the release was cut.

I agree its doubtful the US will get another HD release but there are plenty of other territories where the uncut version was released on dvd so I'm sure an uncut version will appear somewhere else at some point.

Had you ever seen the uncut version you'd know that your apparent opinion of what is missing is completely inaccurate.

The British release of the original I Spit On Your Grave has always been cut , sometimes substitutions used to cover lost footage but a reflection of how censored movies are worthless is nicely illustrated by the value the release goes for on Amazon - and in a very nice package too.

:deadh orse:: deadhorse: please stop... you've made your point and this arguement has been going on for way too long. You have your standards and other people have theirs... fair enough?

[murphywmm]

Originally Posted by stuartalex

Had you ever seen the uncut version you'd know that your apparent opinion of what is missing is completely inaccurate.

Actually, I had the uncut version on DVD. It was the Dutch version I picked up on a stopover there. It adds nothing to the movie.

[stuartalex]

Originally Posted by AKORIS

:deadh orse:: deadhorse: please stop... you've made your point and this arguement has been going on for way too long. You have your standards and other people have theirs... fair enough?

But only on Death Wish 2

[stuartalex]

Originally Posted by murphywmm

Actually, I had the uncut version on DVD. It was the Dutch version I picked up on a stopover there. It adds nothing to the movie.

Are you sure?
The Dutch version currently available and that's been available for several years and is also part of the boxset is actually more severely cut than either the R or 18 versions - combining both into one real mess.
The rest of the series in that boxset was also letterboxed although not sure if DW3 included the original UK cuts.

[Jompa]

Originally Posted by stuartalex

It has a longer rape scene at the start , the scene featuring the rape of Kerseys daughter is almost non existent in the R version and her death is also toned down from the original edit - the latter was even cleared by the UK BBFC for an 18 although I do appreciate that if you saw the film for the first time ever in a cut version you may not even notice the edits but they do add up to several minutes.

Tying in with the earlier comment about the film not being high art or just wanting to see bad guys get shot , the preference for lossless audio on such a low budget film seems slightly odd.

Ok, but lossless audio always sounds better even if it's low budget film. Doesn't seem odd to me to want to have the best audio quality possible. I'm suprised you feel this way.

[stuartalex]

Originally Posted by Jompa

Ok, but lossless audio always sounds better even if it's low budget film. Doesn't seem odd to me to want to have the best audio quality possible. I'm suprised you feel this way.

I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer lossless audio - obviously the best is always better , but I found it odd that if people were happy to accept the significant cuts why would they worry more about the audio.

If its a choice of standard DD audio and an uncut film on dvd over lossless audio on a censored Bluray I go for the former - on any film.

I'm hoping that the best of both will appear at some point.

[murphywmm]

I will be very surprised if Death Wish II gets any futher BD releases at this point. There may not even be suitable HD elements available for the "uncut" version.

Does anybody have the German BD of "From Noon Till Three" ? I wonder if it's any good. I'm also going to order the JP release of "The Valachi Papers" at some point in the near future.

[stuartalex]

Originally Posted by murphywmm

I will be very surprised if Death Wish II gets any futher BD releases at this point. There may not even be suitable HD elements available for the "uncut" version.

.

I wouldn't expect any further Blurays for DW2 in the US but there is still Europe and Australia yet.
As the R version is exclusive to the US I doubt the uncut version is a lost thing.
Bar the US dvd every other dvd release was able to source the original version at some point.
Even the Dutch had the uncut version originally. Not sure whether the current release there is a tv print - it's certainly the most censored version I've seen.

Are there any movies for which the original version is lost and only the R remains, specially for movies where the full version played elsewhere?

[Jompa]

Originally Posted by stuartalex

I'm not saying I wouldn't prefer lossless audio - obviously the best is always better , but I found it odd that if people were happy to accept the significant cuts why would they worry more about the audio.

If its a choice of standard DD audio and an uncut film on dvd over lossless audio on a censored Bluray I go for the former - on any film.

I'm hoping that the best of both will appear at some point.

Ok, i don't care at all for the rape scene. I would't care if the entire rape scene was removed. If any of the shootouts was censored for violence, i would be mad, but that's not the case.

[seagal]

Originally Posted by murphywmm

I will be very surprised if Death Wish II gets any futher BD releases at this point. There may not even be suitable HD elements available for the "uncut" version.

Does anybody have the German BD of "From Noon Till Three" ? I wonder if it's any good. I'm also going to order the JP release of "The Valachi Papers" at some point in the near future.

I have the German blu-ray of "From Noon till Three" and the picture quality is very good. My recommendation for this title.

Before I had the blu-ray I had the excellent Japanese DVD and the German blu-ray is even much better.

But don´t buy the German blu-ray of "Caboblanco" because the picture quality is shit as hell.

Another Bronson title that I recommend is "Assassination". The German blu-ray looks great, much better than I expected.

[d2cheer]

Originally Posted by stuartalex

DW2 remains pretty much the one and only movie where buyers will encourage collectors its a worthwhile purchase - the complete opposite of what would happen with any other title in any other genre.

I had this disagreement with somebody else a while ago and it all sounded like they were trying to convince themselves it was not a waste of money to buy the R edit. ( depends if seeing it in HD is more important than seeing the original version I guess)

It is not a "waste" of money. The so-called cut version is the version I saw in the theaters here in the USA. I saw it three times in the theater when it came out. That is the version I prefer. The extended rape is sickening. IMHO. But to each their own. I also love how people like to justify wanting the uncut version of this move as well. Because if you saw it in the theater the cut version is what was available here. The uncut version was not what was "originally" released to theaters here either...

[rockinrick]

Charles Bronson is in two of my favorite top five movies
Magnificent Seven & The Great Escape I can't say enough good things about Bronson and his movies. Thanks to Charles Bronson for making some of the most entertaining movies I ever watched. Rick

[stuartalex]

Originally Posted by d2cheer

It is not a "waste" of money. The so-called cut version is the version I saw in the theaters here in the USA. I saw it three times in the theater when it came out. That is the version I prefer. The extended rape is sickening. IMHO. But to each their own. I also love how people like to justify wanting the uncut version of this move as well. Because if you saw it in the theater the cut version is what was available here. The uncut version was not what was "originally" released to theaters here either...

The extended rape is "sickening" but the short version isn't.
Ok.

I can't be arsed . Maybe we can return to DW2 discussion when the correct director approved version appears somewhere rather than the censored cut that played in one country.

[Hard Times Chaney]

Jesus effing Christ, guys. I know the original post encourages you to discuss the releases, but I think we're way past establishing that the Death Wish II Blu-ray is missing a couple of minutes compared to what has been released in Europe in the past. I think it would be more appropriate to move the discussion to the following thread: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=198121

Best Wishes/Hard Times Chaney, owner of four Death Wish II releases with three different cuts, cuz that's how I roll

[stuartalex]

Originally Posted by Hard Times Chaney

Jesus effing Christ, guys. I know the original post encourages you to discuss the releases, but I think we're way past establishing that the Death Wish II Blu-ray is missing a couple of minutes compared to what has been released in Europe in the past. I think it would be more appropriate to move the discussion to the following thread: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=198121

Best Wishes/Hard Times Chaney, owner of four Death Wish II releases with three different cuts, cuz that's how I roll

One thing I've not seen mentioned is any disc release for the famous Greek version with additional dialogue scenes that seems to have vanished after its VHS release

I saw DW2 in the UK when it came out so I doubt I would have noticed any cuts in the cinema.

It was a C4 documentary ( from 1990 I think) called What the Censors Saw which chatted to tosspot Ferman who seemed very proud that DW2 had been one of his most censored films but they then played ( on a moviola I think) the censored part of the maid rape . This was when I first became aware of quite how much was missing. I copied the vhs of the documentary onto dvd as it got C4 into trouble and they never aired it again . They also played some of the footage that remains missing to this day from New York Ripper.

[grahams76]

Was that from the Banned season in 1991, maybe 1992 (definitely not 1990)? I saw that documentary on TV but my parents knew I was videoing it, happened to watch some of it and never let me have the tape.