UltraHD Blurays and players will start coming by Christmas 2015. Still buying blurays

[StingingVelvet]

I'm honestly worried I won't like the HDR lighting stuff, as it can be very controversial in photography.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

I'm honestly worried I won't like the HDR lighting stuff, as it can be very controversial in photography.

I'm curious how it will affect films on home video.

I like browsing through Flickr galleries and enjoying some of the nice photography people put up, and there are quite a few groups for posting high dynamic range photography. I find a lot of it stunning to look at, but I admit it can be a very surreal look depending on how strong the effect is. I think it all comes down to how strong it's used. It can be done with subtlety just to help bring out the backgrounds better like cloudy skies and mountains in the distance, or it can be applied heavily to give a dreamlike quality to the image.

I can't imagine it would be very heavy for HDTV viewing - I'm thinking it would just help to balance brighter and darker areas together better than HDTV currently does, but it will be nice to see just how it ends up working out.

[Icemouth]

Originally Posted by mar3o

They should avoid referring to them as UHD blu-ray though. Most people never bought into blu-ray so to them this will just be an extension of a format they never bought into anyways.

Yea, it's exactly what happened with the Wii U, a ton of people still think it's an add-on for the Wii. The amount of marketing it will take to educate people that "UHD Blu-Ray" isn't "Blu-Ray" will be monumental. They need to completely detach the name. Not like it will ultimately help that much, it's going to be drastically more niche than Blu-Ray is.

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Icemouth

Yea, it's exactly what happened with the Wii U, a ton of people still think it's an add-on for the Wii. The amount of marketing it will take to educate people that "UHD Blu-Ray" isn't "Blu-Ray" will be monumental. They need to completely detach the name. Not like it will ultimately help that much, it's going to be drastically more niche than Blu-Ray is.

I think that will change over the next decade to 15 years. Blu-ray has been sitting around 1/3 of the total market share with DVD for the last couple years. It's going to sit there until the studios stop selling DVD only SKUs along with the increased availability and affordability of 4K displays. In the next decade or so you won't be able to buy anything but 4K displays. 720/768 displays have already been shrunk down to 32" and below with them disappearing probably in the next 5 to 10 years. We will probably see the same pattern with 1080p (2K) displays over the next decade as they become relegated to smaller displays lower than about 40". Whatever the masses call it, 4K, UHD, UHD BD, it will slowly permeate the households of the world just as 2K displays and BD have over the last decade. Granted, it will be a much slower shift, but it will happen. My grandchildren will be asking what SD and 1080p were in about 25 years.

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Oh I agree entirely. It's unfortunate that people need everything broken down into such simple terms. Obviously color, contrast, gamma, brightness comes into play when talking about tv, but so many people these days are simpletons when it comes to tech that their brain shuts down at the mere mention of these things. I don't expect people to be tech wizards, but it would be nice if everything didn't have to be simplified to the point where important points are ignored due to fear of consumer confusion. When they launched DVD way back they had confidence that people would understand menus, disc navigation, multiple angles, multiple audio streams, etc. - has everyone just turned dumb since then?

How hard is it to explain to a customer "well, standard HDTV and blu-ray had a limited amount of colors available, but 4k delivers far more colors, making a more vivid image."?

I think that belies the actual reason behind it, though. Most folks just don't give a rat's turd.

To the average viewer, every TV looks the same now. To even a lot of "above" average viewers, as well. Most stats like you are talking about are rendered meaningless for most because HDTV just looks so good from a native HD source to begin with. A $500 HDTV looks as good as a $2000 HDTV.

No normal person sits around and says "Gee, I wish my HDTV had more colors!" Millions of colors is millions of colors. It's all so theoretical and of course so wholly dependent on source material, that sure, the demo material looks fantastic - but in reality, it just doesn't make a tinkers damn worth of difference to 99% of the viewing folks do.

There is a definite saturation point that has been reached when it comes to PQ, and that's why Blu-ray is still where it is. Most people never saw the full quality of their DVDs before they watched them on HDTV's with HDMI inputs - just about everyone watched them through freakin' RCA cables, so there was such a dramatic upgrade just with an HDMI output that folks were like "Why do I need Blu-ray? It already looks fantastic!"

4K effectively is just a marketing thing for the majority of consumers and really will remain so. It's like computer resolution and refresh rates - the only folks who care about it anymore are the hardest core of hardcore competitive gamers. There is only this endless need for more more more more from a select group of consumers who spend as much time measuring specs as they do actually enjoying content.

[Taygan315]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

I think that belies the actual reason behind it, though. Most folks just don't give a rat's turd.

To the average viewer, every TV looks the same now. To even a lot of "above" average viewers, as well. Most stats like you are talking about are rendered meaningless for most because HDTV just looks so good from a native HD source to begin with. A $500 HDTV looks as good as a $2000 HDTV.

No normal person sits around and says "Gee, I wish my HDTV had more colors!" Millions of colors is millions of colors. It's all so theoretical and of course so wholly dependent on source material, that sure, the demo material looks fantastic - but in reality, it just doesn't make a tinkers damn worth of difference to 99% of the viewing folks do.

There is a definite saturation point that has been reached when it comes to PQ, and that's why Blu-ray is still where it is. Most people never saw the full quality of their DVDs before they watched them on HDTV's with HDMI inputs - just about everyone watched them through freakin' RCA cables, so there was such a dramatic upgrade just with an HDMI output that folks were like "Why do I need Blu-ray? It already looks fantastic!"

4K effectively is just a marketing thing for the majority of consumers and really will remain so. It's like computer resolution and refresh rates - the only folks who care about it anymore are the hardest core of hardcore competitive gamers. There is only this endless need for more more more more from a select group of consumers who spend as much time measuring specs as they do actually enjoying content.

THIS!! Especially the last sentence.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

I think that belies the actual reason behind it, though. Most folks just don't give a rat's turd.

To the average viewer, every TV looks the same now. To even a lot of "above" average viewers, as well. Most stats like you are talking about are rendered meaningless for most because HDTV just looks so good from a native HD source to begin with. A $500 HDTV looks as good as a $2000 HDTV.

No normal person sits around and says "Gee, I wish my HDTV had more colors!" Millions of colors is millions of colors. It's all so theoretical and of course so wholly dependent on source material, that sure, the demo material looks fantastic - but in reality, it just doesn't make a tinkers damn worth of difference to 99% of the viewing folks do.

There is a definite saturation point that has been reached when it comes to PQ, and that's why Blu-ray is still where it is. Most people never saw the full quality of their DVDs before they watched them on HDTV's with HDMI inputs - just about everyone watched them through freakin' RCA cables, so there was such a dramatic upgrade just with an HDMI output that folks were like "Why do I need Blu-ray? It already looks fantastic!"

4K effectively is just a marketing thing for the majority of consumers and really will remain so. It's like computer resolution and refresh rates - the only folks who care about it anymore are the hardest core of hardcore competitive gamers. There is only this endless need for more more more more from a select group of consumers who spend as much time measuring specs as they do actually enjoying content.

I agree with everything you say here. You make some good points, and unfortunately we have reached a saturation level. Most people own a perfectly good HDTV now and just don't see the need to spend more on another panel that looks pretty much the same to them. Sure, there's always some people who need a new tv or are upgrading, but there's no rush to buy a 4k set like there was for 720p/1080p. You're right when you say that to most people millions of colors is millions of colors. More millions mean nothing to most people because to them, HD already looks as good as they will ever need. I guess that's the reality with 4k - people may slowly adopt it over the coming years as they need a new tv, if that's all that's available or if the prices continue to come down. But I don't think people are in any hurry to upgrade to a better home video format. Most are happy with DVD and streaming.

[kidglov3s]

Originally Posted by mar3o

I agree with everything you say here. You make some good points, and unfortunately we have reached a saturation level. Most people own a perfectly good HDTV now and just don't see the need to spend more on another panel that looks pretty much the same to them. Sure, there's always some people who need a new tv or are upgrading, but there's no rush to buy a 4k set like there was for 720p/1080p. You're right when you say that to most people millions of colors is millions of colors. More millions mean nothing to most people because to them, HD already looks as good as they will ever need. I guess that's the reality with 4k - people may slowly adopt it over the coming years as they need a new tv, if that's all that's available or if the prices continue to come down. But I don't think people are in any hurry to upgrade to a better home video format. Most are happy with DVD and streaming.

Or happy with Blu-ray. I will be surprised if UHD Blu-ray plays out much different from D-Theater DVHS. Extremely limited content for an extremely limited audience. I mean this stuff's supposed to be rolled out in 3 or so months and we have zero details.

[KiLLPaTRiCK]

I stopped buying blu-rays the second i read The Kingsman is coming out in UHD.

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

...

Great post man.

Consumers care more and price and convenience than they do quality. There is always a quality threshold where consumers stop worrying about it, because it's "good enough." DVD was good enough for them, and BD is likely good enough for most enthusiasts. Just the way the cookie crumbles. I find the idea of 4k TVs pushing 4k discs pretty silly, since HDTVs certainly haven't pushed mainstream consumers toward blu-ray.

[PuppetMasterBlu]

The 4k projectors would have to come way down before I could even consider this for a second. Im not trading my 120 inch projetor screen for a 50 inch 4k tv. Don't get me wrong, the prices aren't bad but im now downgrading to a smaller screen.

[Gold Ranger]

Originally Posted by PuppetMasterBlu

The 4k projectors would have to come way down before I could even consider this for a second. Im not trading my 120 inch projetor screen for a 50 inch 4k tv. Don't get me wrong, the prices aren't bad but im now downgrading to a smaller screen.

Does a projector need to be calibrated like a tv does/needs to be?

[ddwall]

My Wife has never bought a movie in any format. Why would you watch a movie more then once? She is not interested in a new TV until this one stops working. There are more Television shows then she we have time to watch. My wonderful bride thinks that collecting movies is a complete waste of money so no she does not care about 4K

[Pieter V]

Originally Posted by ddwall

My Wife has never bought a movie in any format. Why would you watch a movie more then once? She is not interested in a new TV until this one stops working. There are more Television shows then she we have time to watch. My wonderful bride thinks that collecting movies is a complete waste of money so no she does not care about 4K

If you can't convince her for 4K, convince here for OLED. I am sure you can.

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Just how noticeable will the enhanced dynamic range and color palette be to those of us that are already into Blu-ray?

I have to be honest, and I suspect I might have to take some flack for this, but...

I've spent a lot of my life in the cinema. I've spent a lot of my life watching films on the telly, VHS, LaserDisc, DVD, Blu-ray. flatscreen, 1080p projector.

I've never once seen a film at the cinema and though "Wow, the colour/contrast is so much better than my projector", or turned my TV on and said "Tsk, not as good colour/contrast as at the pictures last night".

With the exception of films from 3-strip Technicolor.

But I have put a good Blu-ray Disc on my projector and thought "The picture is jaw-droppingly astonishing; far better than my usual experience at the cinema!"

Steve W

[mzupeman]

Originally Posted by Pecker

I have to be honest, and I suspect I might have to take some flack for this, but...



I've spent a lot of my life in the cinema. I've spent a lot of my life watching films on the telly, VHS, LaserDisc, DVD, Blu-ray. flatscreen, 1080p projector.



I've never once seen a film at the cinema and though "Wow, the colour/contrast is so much better than my projector", or turned my TV on and said "Tsk, not as good colour/contrast as at the pictures last night".



With the exception of films from 3-strip Technicolor.



But I have put a good Blu-ray Disc on my projector and thought "The picture is jaw-droppingly astonishing; far better than my usual experience at the cinema!"



Steve W

Im with you. Blu-ray discs, when done right, are absolutely phenomenal for the large screens most people use at home. I have no desire to even upgrade to a 4K tv, let alone the UHD format.

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

There is only this endless need for more more more more from a select group of consumers who spend as much time measuring specs as they do actually enjoying content.

'Appen.

Me Julie puts up with a lot from me.

But she doesn't just moan - she will be completely honest about things.

And we'll sit down and watch a film, and afterwards I'll note a few points where the PQ was particularly exceptional.

And she won't just poo-poo it, she can see.

But often she'll say "Yes, that looked very impressive...but that didn't make the film any more enjoyable."

I think there's a point where improvements in PQ is obvious, and without it you are distracted from your viewing enjoyment - I couldn't stand VHS on my projector, for example.

But there's a time when it's quite possible that you might be able to notice a further improvement with an A/B comparison, or if you 'educated' yourself, but where it's otherwise really not necessary.

Steve W

[HeavyHitter]

I've got a front projector and a 9 foot wide screen. I sit between 9.5 and 10 feet back and a high quality Blu-ray looks outstanding.

With UHD BD, I am more interested in the wider P3 color gamut above all else. Even at this size, I don't think the difference in detail on films with be huge but more like icing on the cake. I'm not completely sold on HDR - yet anyway.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by Gold Ranger

Does a projector need to be calibrated like a tv does/needs to be?

Yes, it's probably even more important for a projector. For one, the lamp causes faster drifting as it ages. Epson has a couple of laser based projectors and that is the direction at least the better projectors will be headed thankfully, but it will take a while...but it also adds to the cost of the projector. But they should maintain calibration for a lot longer time (will be curious to see data on the Epsons as time goes by).

Projectors also have to be calibrated to the specific screen being used. There are many, many different types of screens in regards to color, gain, etc.

[Jobber8742]

I've always had the vision of building a theater in my house. If I ever get around to it, I'd like to be prepared and 4K would be the way to go it seems. I'm not going to stop buying Blu-Rays though because I won't stop using it anytime soon. If they offer Combo packs at a price comparible to current Blu-Rays, I'll probably go that route for some movies. But seeing as I don't spend over $10 almost all of my movies now, I'm going to guess the list of titles I'm willing to spend $25 or so on is going to be very small.