Star Wars Wars the UOT Strikes Back and OTHER PEZ dispensers

[Jumpman]

Cowboy,

In it's theatrical form, A New Hope is seriously dated. '77 Battle of Yavin agrees with me. That's why he doesn't mind his digital face lift back in '97.

He feels so much better now.

[42041]

I haven't obsessively analyzed every frame or anything but I've always thought the first movie held up suprisingly well (in SD anyway)

[Jumpman]

When you watch it back to back with the Empire Strikes Back, it doesn't. That's how far the technology leaped in the three years between the films.

What holds A New Hope together is the story and the characters...not so much how it looks.

Again, as Beast said, why do you think Lucas has spent most of his time on that film, instead of the other two?

I mean, the Empire Strikes Back barely got touched in the '04 boxset, besides the inclusion of the real Emperor.

[phatrat1982]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

There will never be 3D BD sets of these films because:

1. 3D is a fad and is currently dying
2. After Episode 1 tanks at the Box Office they will not release the others.

I am sure there will be another HD set someday as Lucas thinks he is Disney and can milk a set every five to ten years.

I agree 100% on point one, but I disagree on point 2, all three of my sisters, my parents, all seven of the kids, and myself will all be lined up with their husbands to see this movie day one and if it is impressive and if I have enough money I will be taking any combination of the above as many times as they ask me to because I personally loved it a lot and all my family members agree with me that it is the best of the prequels so I think that and everyone I talked to suggests it will be a big hit.

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

Cowboy,

In it's theatrical form, A New Hope is seriously dated. '77 Battle of Yavin agrees with me. That's why he doesn't mind his digital face lift back in '97.

He feels so much better now.

Yes it is dated, I never said it was not dated. I said I dont see the difference in it looking terribly more dated than TESB.

[Beast]

All one has to do is compare the Battle of Yavin to scenes like the Escape from Hoth or the Rebel Fleet at the end of ESB.

[Duffy12]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

in the summer of 77 when I saw the film and I don't remember it looking like a "backlot" at all....in fact I still dont think it looks like a back lot.

I agree.


Lucas just went overboard with this part in the SE by adding too much Jurassic Park to it.

So instead of the "wretched hive of scum and villainy." that Ben mentioned, we now have a goofy Ringling Brothers Circus vibe.


.

[phatrat1982]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

Yes it is dated, I never said it was not dated. I said I dont see the difference in it looking terribly more dated than TESB.

Yes you did in the post I originally replied to, you asked me why people keep saying it looks dated and I gave my reasons why I felt it did and others agreed with me and then you changed your tune. Hey lets let this one go ok, I don't wanna start another argument so I will meet you half way, and agree that it still looks amazing but out of the six films it looks the most dated, to me. Fair enough?



T be fair to Cowboy who was actually there to see it in theaters I will say it must have been something. I was born the year before Jedi came out so by the time I watched the first Star Wars, movies like Ghostbusters, Gremlins, Nightmare on Elm Street, Terminator, and even Robocop had all come and by then Star Wars was impressive as you said on it's story elements but as a kid I always thought that the special effects in the original film were not as good as those in the latter films. Now to be fair I watched Star Wars for the first time when I was 6 and Return of the Jedi was the only sequel I had to follow it up with and I did not get to see Empire Strikes Back until I was 9 so there was a period where all I had was the story book and my love for Star wars grew out of just reading books, comics, and watching ewok cartoons so that tells you that the story is more important than the effects so I will give you that.

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

8) Will the issue of Leia's memories be addressed in the new edit, since Luke specifically asks about her "real mother"?

What do you want more dialouge changes and butchering of the OT to fit the PT? He should have thought about that before he made ROTS.

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

What do you want more dialouge changes and butchering of the OT to fit the PT? He should have thought about that before he made ROTS.

Well, the scene still needs to be edited in some fashion, since Lucas has repeatedly described the films as "one long story".

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Well, the scene still needs to be edited in some fashion, since Lucas has repeatedly described the films as "one long story".

Why not change ROTS then? Seems the OT is getting the short end to pander to inferior films. Just my 2 cents.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by Moviefan2k4

Well, the scene still needs to be edited in some fashion, since Lucas has repeatedly described the films as "one long story".

There's no reason to change Leia's comments to fit. They already do fit the story.

The film doesn't need to be paused so everything can be explained. But the nature of her memories is obvious.

[Cowboy]

Originally Posted by Beast

There's no reason to change Leia's comments to fit. They already do fit the story.

The film doesn't need to be paused so everything can be explained. But the nature of her memories is obvious.

That's right, just leave the huge plot hole and leave ROTJ the way it is! Tired of seeing the OT constantly cut and altered.

[sevb36]

From Ghent: SW blogs.

Episode III reveals that Padme dies of a broken heart shortly after the birth of the twins. So how can her daughter, Leia, have memories of her more than 20 years later?

It's worth noting that the film doesn't get specific about the time frame between the birth and mother's death. It could be minutes, it could be hours. I think it's reasonable to say that the intent is less than 24 hours, since it is inter-cut with the re-construction of Anakin. By the time the Vader suit is on, Padme is dead and Anakin's medical needs seem pretty urgent. Suffice to say that regardless of a timeframe or minutes or hours, it seems fast for Leia to have made memories.

Yes, Leia's talking about Padme
I've seen it suggested that Leia is speaking of her adopted mother (the Queen of Alderaan, Bail's wife) rather than Padme. Let's look at the exchange...

LUKE: Leia... do you remember your mother? Your real mother?
LEIA: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.

Asking someone if they remember their real mother is really gutsy, unless you've had previous conversations establishing that they are adopted. In that context, the "your real mother" clarification definitely means biological mother.

If they hadn't previously discussed it, Leia would have replied, "How did you know I was adopted?" (assuming Leia knows), or "What do you mean my real mother? I have only one mother."

Besides, if it's not Padme then this exchange has no dramatic meaning.

Images and Feelings
So, what does Leia claim she can remember?

LUKE: What do you remember?
LEIA: Just images, really. Feelings.
LUKE: Tell me.
LEIA: She was very beautiful. Kind, but sad.

It is certainly common for every day people to describe their earliest memories in terms of emotions and images. These impressions may or may not be accurate, but feel real. Typically specific lasting memories are not formed until a few years into life, but there are exceptions. This may or may not be true in the Star Wars universe.

While it is in no way critical to this discussion, nor can it be backed up by movie evidence, it is even possible that Bail at some point showed Leia a photograph of her biological mother. It is commonplace for the brain to mix memories of images with memories of the actual event.

Memories or Visions?
Yoda tells Luke, "Through the Force, things you will see. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone."

The movies imply that Leia is Force sensitive. It is certainly possible that while growing up, Leia received visions of her mother through the Force. Visions of the past, precisely as Yoda describes.

Notice that Luke's Force vision of the future also came in images and feelings, "I saw a city in the clouds" and "They were in pain".

Pre-Birth Connection
It is also possible the Leia's impressions of her mother formed before her birth. What can the films tell us about this?

Yoda says of the Force, "Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock. Yes, even between the land and the ship."

Yoda is certainly not placing the burden of conscience or will, or even sentience, on the connections the Force will make. Life-to-life seems to be the only requirement. (Are rocks alive?) A mother-daughter binding in the Force existed in some form.

It is inconclusive as to whether the general connection in the Force of all things is enough for specific awareness or not. Certainly Padme is not aware of both twins. Then again, Padme is not portrayed as a Force user, so we can't necessarily expect her to feel these Force connections.

Qui-Gon explains to Anakin, "Midi-chlorians are a microscopic life form that resides within all living cells and communicates with the Force." Again, this is a clear description of the nature of the communication and connection in the Force to be an involuntary one, happening without need of will or consciousness.

It is safe to assume that as a feared offspring of Anakin, Leia has a midi-chlorian count that is at least above average if not exceptional. In the months Leia was in the womb, there would have been a lot of Force-based communication and connection with her mother, whether Leia was aware of it or not, leaving cellular, midi-chlorian, and even "real" memories of Padme.

Conclusions
Exceptionally early memory-making, later-in-life visions from the Force, or pre-consciousness connection through the Force are all viable reasons why Leia would have formed lasting memories of Padme in the minutes or hours they shared in a medical room together.

This isn't a plot hole.

Beyond What we "Know"... My Thoughts
My personal opinion cannot be backed up from the films, so I leave to you only as food for thought.

I believe that the highly Force sensitive twins were abnormally conscious and aware even in the womb, and that Leia's memories were more than passive, but were part of a real relationship formed before birth.

This line of thought is endorsed in the Star Wars expanded universe. In Dark Empire, Leia's unborn twins (Jacen and Jaina) lend their Force power to their mother, to help defeat Palpatine one last time.

Why not Luke?
I can hear many of you asking... OK, so why doesn't Luke remember? If you're the father of more than one child, you'll need little convincing that each sibling develops very differently.

[Starpower67]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

What do you want more dialouge changes and butchering of the OT to fit the PT? He should have thought about that before he made ROTS.

Exactally the PT should fit the OT not the other way around! Leia's memories is a glaring plot hole as are many other consitincies between the PT and OT. However I would much rather have that, than more tampering to the OT! It's one thing to add additional scenes, it another to keep changing established plot points in the OT!

[Jumpman]

The line Anakin says to Padme on Mustafar is "I've become more powerful than any Jedi has ever dreamed of. And I'm doing it for you. To protect you."

[Moviefan2k4]

Originally Posted by Jumpman

The line Anakin says to Padme on Mustafar is "I've become more powerful than any Jedi has ever dreamed of. And I'm doing it for you. To protect you."

My mistake on the exact wording, but Hayden's voice is clearly dubbed, because his lips don't match.

Also, I just thought of another one: when Anakin first arrives on Mustafar, he walks away, pulling his hood up as he goes...but the hand he uses is his right, which should be the mechanical one. Instead, you clearly see Hayden's real hand in the shot.

[Jumpman]

Obi-Wan's line about "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" does make narrative sense because that's the whole point of why the Jedi fell.

The Jedi never adapted to the changing of the times. They never adapted to the person Anakin was and how he was raised. Their ways are what caused the Jedi Order to fall. Yoda basically says so in Episode III.

Obi-Wan's line is an absolute and that's the Jedi's problem the whole time and why Palpatine was able to defeat them.

[Jumpman]

That's just a movie gaff. I don't expect Lucas to change that. Every movie is littered with movie continuity gaffes. And yes, Hayden's line was dubbed over.

[sevb36]

The thing people don't realize when you create a film or series, or even write a book, some fans will be obsessive compulsive about details that you never even thought of. It's not your whole life, you don't have the time to agonize over every detail of every frame. Even JK Rowling made small errors in the HP books.

Lucas gets maligned a lot for simply being imperfect, and accused he doesn't love his creation as much as some fans do, when he just doesn't have time to worry about every frame, as some of them seem to.