Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

I watched the 2001 Space Odyssey 4K disc last night and it was absolutely stellar. I also watched Gods of Egypt on 4K disc, as well, with HDR. I also finished binging this really cool show called Giri/Haji on Netflix - it's a BBC/Netflix production and it was presented in Dolby Vision/Atmos via Netflix. It's a neo-noir slow burn Yakuza tale that takes place in London and Tokyo.

It was a busy day off yesterday indeed!

It seems that your new equipment is getting a good workout and that it is delivering excellent results. I'm very happy for you.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Silent movies were shot with hand cranked cameras, that's why the frame rate varied. Theaters showed then at a consistent frame rate and it often didn't match the director's intentions.

When 23.96, 25, and 29.96 frame rates became standard support was dropped (in both the cameras and projectors) for other frame rates. No one was able to shoot at other frame rates even if they wanted to.

Umm..not quite. If a film was over cranked in order to slow down action or under cranked to speed up action, projecting at a standard frame rate (generally 18fps in the silent era) showed exactly that effect. Of course if the taking speed varied simply because the cameraman couldn't crank at a consistent speed, then the projected image might not match the intention.

And before electric motors, when projectors were also hand cranked, projectionists projected at many different speeds. They would receive printed guidelines from the studios as to what to project each section at, but some theaters would speed up projection to fit in more shows. That, of course, ended with the sound era.

29.96 (which is actually 29.97) frame rate is a video frame rate, not film. Film is projected at 24fps with few exceptions. The first Todd-AO 70mm film, "Oklahoma" was shot and projected at 30fps. And of course there have been some HFR digital films in recent years.

That 29.97 frame rate is no longer necessary, but is still used. That frame rate was instituted because when analog color TV was introduced, the 3.58MHz color subcarrier would absorb common phase noise from the harmonics of the line scan frequency. So they took 30fps and divided it by 1.001 and got 29.97 fps.

But this presented a problem for TV because an hour of timecode was longer than wall clock time by 3.59 seconds resulting in an 86 second differential per day. That's problematic for TV stations that broadcast 24 hours a day, especially when automation is involved and/or they're part of a network. So drop-frame SMPTE time code was developed. SMPTE drop frame time code drops frame numbers 0 and 1 of the 1st second of every minute, except when the number of minutes is divisible by 10. It's not removing image frames, it's just dropping those time code numbers (they're skipped).

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It seems that your new equipment is getting a good workout and that it is delivering excellent results. I'm very happy for you.

It is. I've read that it takes about 2 weeks or so to fully break it in. It's been 7 days, so one more week to go. I've been throwing 4K disc and Netflix/VUDU material that's in 4K/Atmos at it and it is coasting so far.

I've got Starship Troopers 4K on the way tomorrow along with that Tex Avery BD from Warner Archive.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

It is. I've read that it takes about 2 weeks or so to fully break it in. It's been 7 days, so one more week to go. I've been throwing 4K disc and Netflix/VUDU material that's in 4K/Atmos at it and it is coasting so far.

I've got Starship Troopers 4K on the way tomorrow along with that Tex Avery BD from Warner Archive.

It’s the HT dream. Blu-ray was the start, with images that were good projected and great quality surround. Now that’s ramping up.

I bought R.E.M, AFTP and it sounded out of this world. The richness and the instruments hitting you all over.

Of course, there is no need to go to the cinema anymore. I will though, just to do my bit.

[cheez avenger]

The only thing I have not done with the new set-up is spin some vinyl. I have the pre-amp connected to the AVR, so I'm ready to rock.

[Steedeel]

NBCUniversal rumoured to be in advanced talks to buy Walmart’s Vudu service.

Not sure if this is related to NBC’s Peacock subscription streaming, but NBCU already own Fandango Now, so maybe they will merge those services.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

NBCUniversal rumoured to be in advanced talks to buy Walmart’s Vudu service.

Yeah, saw that story here. It does seem like a duplicate service of FandangoNow. It does make sense if it is cost effective to acquire Vudu for its AVOD content rather than try to add AVOD to FandangoNow.

I do get a big from seeing Walmart spend a lot of money updating their physical disc displays while trying to pawn off Vudu to some unsuspecting soul.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Yeah, saw that story here. It does seem like a duplicate service of FandangoNow. It does make sense if it is cost effective to acquire Vudu for its AVOD content rather than try to add AVOD to FandangoNow.

I do get a big from seeing Walmart spend a lot of money updating their physical disc displays while trying to pawn off Vudu to some unsuspecting soul.

With Disc sales on the decline, I think Walmart to sell Vudu is a mistake. They should consider a Merger as sales of Movies and TV Shows goes Digital.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

With Disc sales on the decline, I think Walmart to sell Vudu is a mistake. They should consider a Merger as sales of Movies and TV Shows goes Digital.

You are the only person that I have come across that can not do simple arithmetic. Physical and EST sales numbers have been posted numerous time in this thread but you are the only one that does not get the meaning.

Physical revenue (US) still exceeds EST, it should not considering the number of devices capable of playing EST.

Physical revenue + EST revenue is in decline.

Apple accounts for 60% of EST, does not leave much for other vendors of EST.

EST did not perform as the studios thought it would and they closed down UV.

Physical revenue is still counted in the billions (US) and I would wager the global total is still quite a lucrative business.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by alchav21

With Disc sales on the decline

One other thing I have pointed out (must go over your head), look in the sales thread, when a worthy title is made available sale go up. After a market is saturated you can not expect to show a constant increase in sales. Sales only do good when a new big title is released and those don't happen very often anymore.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

With Disc sales on the decline, I think Walmart to sell Vudu is a mistake. They should consider a Merger as sales of Movies and TV Shows goes Digital.

Somehow, I think Walmart knows better than you on how to best run their business.

Walmart earns over half a trillion dollars per year. The total for all digital sales and all video on demand rentals, excluding subscription because Vudu is not an SVOD, was just $4.541 billion. The entirety of digital sales and video on demand revenue from all providers is just 0.908% of Walmart's revenue. Vudu's revenue is just a small fraction of that. Walmart likely sees their experiment with digital sales and digital rentals to be too trivial to be worth their further effort. If digital sales and AVOD were the goldmines that you think they are, Walmart would not be looking to dump Vudu.

https://www.degonline.org/portfolio_...ment-report-2/

All sales of video content are in decline. Overall purchases, both disc and digital combined, have been in decline every single year since 2011. Rentals, mostly in the form of subscription streaming, is where the substantial growth has occurred. Again, as has been pointed out several times, digital sales have never overtaken those of disc.

In 2011, overall combined sales were $9.505 billion. In 2019, overall combined sales were just $5.867 billion. Overall combined sales are down 38.2%. The growth in 4K disc sales has not reversed this decline and the anemic growth in digital sales have done far less to stem this drop in sales. Growth in 4K disc sales last year was approx. 15% while digital sales grew a mere 5.12% and despite this overall combined sales still dropped; it amounts to nothing more than each having a bigger slice of a shrinking pie.

Naturally, all of these facts are lost on you. Why don't you make a trip to Bentonville, Arkansas and set Walmart straight and save them from their stupid ol' selves? How will Walmart succeed without your brilliant insight? They need you desperately!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

With Disc sales on the decline, I think Walmart to sell Vudu is a mistake. They should consider a Merger as sales of Movies and TV Shows goes Digital.

Proof is in the pudding. The general public are not biting so it’s not worth it. They want to get shot for a reason.

[Vilya]

I don't much care for pudding.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I don't much care for pudding.

I like a nice dessert. Key Lime Pie especially.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I like a nice dessert. Key Lime Pie especially.

I figured you for more of a cherry pie and man.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I figured you for more of a cherry pie and man.

Just for TP!

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Somehow, I think Walmart knows better than you on how to best run their business.

Walmart earns over half a trillion dollars per year. The total for all digital sales and all video on demand rentals, excluding subscription because Vudu is not an SVOD, was just $4.541 billion. The entirety of digital sales and video on demand revenue from all providers is just 0.908% of Walmart's revenue. Vudu's revenue is just a small fraction of that. Walmart likely sees their experiment with digital sales and digital rentals to be too trivial to be worth their further effort. If digital sales and AVOD were the goldmines that you think they are, Walmart would not be looking to dump Vudu.

https://www.degonline.org/portfolio_...ment-report-2/

All sales of video content are in decline. Overall purchases, both disc and digital combined, have been in decline every single year since 2011. Rentals, mostly in the form of subscription streaming, is where the substantial growth has occurred. Again, as has been pointed out several times, digital sales have never overtaken those of disc.

In 2011, overall combined sales were $9.505 billion. In 2019, overall combined sales were just $5.867 billion. Overall combined sales are down 38.2%. The growth in 4K disc sales has not reversed this decline and the anemic growth in digital sales have done far less to stem this drop in sales. Growth in 4K disc sales last year was approx. 15% while digital sales grew a mere 5.12% and despite this overall combined sales still dropped; it amounts to nothing more than each having a bigger slice of a shrinking pie.

Naturally, all of these facts are lost on you. Why don't you make a trip to Bentonville, Arkansas and set Walmart straight and save them from their stupid ol' selves? How will Walmart succeed without your brilliant insight? They need you desperately!

Maybe you should check your facts before you post. From the DEG End Of 2019 Report:

Digital movie sales, commonly known as electronic sellthrough, or EST, were up 5.1% to nearly $2.6 billion — while digital movie rentals, through Internet services such as FandangoNow, Redbox On Demand, Vudu and Google Play, were up 9%. This reflects “consumers’ continued engagement with VOD, increasingly through Internet services,” DEG reported.

[gotmule]

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Digital purchases are up slightly and physical purchases are down significantly. Therefore purchases overall are down. It's clear that very few people have transitioned from physical purchases to digital purchases, they are getting digital subscriptions instead.

The trend is moving away from ownership in any form. Most people just want a lot of content for a monthly fee and aren't concerned about any individual piece of content disappearing.

All true. In fact by the end of 2021 there is a very good chance that EST will be higher than physical sales if the growth of EST and the sharp decline of physical continues. Only $600 million separates them as of 12/31/2019.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

All true. In fact by the end of 2021 there is a very good chance that EST will be higher than physical sales if the growth of EST and the sharp decline of physical continues. Only $600 million separates them as of 12/31/2019.

Like people have said before, it’s just a bigger slice of a shrinking cake. Not sure what your point is here? Unless you are getting unduly excited about a dead in the water format that can’t hope to compete with subscription streaming. EST, Evaporating streaming trash.