HBO's "The Last Of Us" (Season 2)

[MuffinMcFluffin]

Originally Posted by eiknarf

Wrong
Bella Ramsey is on record saying she uses SHE/HER along with THEY/THEM

Don't forget DAD/DADDY.

[ps3bd_owner]

It was a decent episode, but Bella Ramsey saying "I'm gonna be a dad" was just weird. She's a woman so she'd be the kid's step-mom or something.

I hope I don't get suspended/banned for saying this. :/

[Veronica Mars]

Originally Posted by ps3bd_owner

It was a decent episode, but Bella Ramsey saying "I'm gonna be a dad" was just weird. She's a woman so she'd be the kid's step-mom or something.

I hope I don't get suspended/banned for saying this. :/

It.Was.A.Joke.

[morphinapg]

I've just done some thinking about how season 3 might be structured, and this is what I came up with. Obviously, don't read unless you've played the game:

[Show spoiler]Episode 1 is tricky. In the game it starts with a flashback to Abby's experience in Salt Lake City. We already have seen part of this in season 2, but they could show more of the relationship with her father and the build up to the operation I suppose. However, if these flashbacks are extensive, you might not be able to cover everything that happens for Abby Day 1 in Seattle. Maybe episode 1 would cover the introduction flashback and a "Day 0" where we show Abby's day to day life operating from the WLF base, interacting with Isaac and patrolling against scars. The end of the episode might set up that Owen is missing and Abby knows where to go to find him.

Episode 2 would then by Day 1 in it's entirety, Abby's journey from the FOB to the aquarium, meeting Yara and Lev, reuniting with Owen, and their night together.


Episode 3 then I think would be the rest of Abby's flashbacks, showing how her father's death impacted her, showing the history of her relationship with Owen, etc.


Episode 4 would then be Day 2, where Abby feels worried about Yara, brings her to Mel, and travels with Lev to the hospital to retrieve medical supplies. This episode would have the fear of heights moment and rat king encounter in the hospital. While I could plausibly see this split into two episodes, I think you would lose the urgency if you did that.


Episode 5 would then focus on the backstory of the Seraphites, showing how they formed, learning more of their ideology, and even giving us Yara and Lev's backstory in more detail than the game did


Episode 6 would then be Day 3, focusing on chasing Lev to Seraphite Island with Yara, including the death of Manny, and then ending with the devastation of the Seraphites and WLF, and the deaths of Owen and Mel.


Episode 7 could then start with the ending moments of season 2. We follow Abby to the theater, where she kills Jesse, confronts Ellie, and nearly kills her and Dina before Ellie begs for mercy. I don't know if this would be enough to fill an entire episode, so this episode would probably end with the first section of the farm, showing Ellie and Dina's new life with JJ, but also focusing on Ellie's PTSD


Episode 8 could then be Abby's portion of Santa Barbara. We would follow her and Lev as they explore the town, looking for evidence of the Fireflies, and we would see their capture, and possibly get a deeper look at the slavery conditions of the Rattlers


Episode 9 would then start with Tommy relaying the news of Abby in Santa Barbara, and follow Ellie on her journey to track Abby down. The ending would probably be where Ellie nearly gets captured herself, but then gets the intel about the Rattlers hideout


Episode 10 would then focus on Ellie infiltrating the Rattler hideout, tearing the place apart like Joel did with the Fireflies, and end with her confrontation of an emaciated Abby on the beach, and show her return to the farm and perhaps the final flashback to Joel as the game does.

This would be a significantly larger season than season 2, as Craig Mazin has said, but I really don't think there's enough material to stretch this into a season 4, as even my outline is pretty stretched out compared to the game as it is, compared to how Season 2 is doing things. If there was a season 4, I would imagine that would be adapting a potential Part III, but that may be a long way away if so.

[ps3bd_owner]

Originally Posted by Veronica Mars

It.Was.A.Joke.

That wasn't funny at all and she was serious in claiming the baby as hers. Not a joke.

[eightslicesofpie]

Originally Posted by morphinapg

I've just done some thinking about how season 3 might be structured, and this is what I came up with. Obviously, don't read unless you've played the game:

[Show spoiler]Episode 1 is tricky. In the game it starts with a flashback to Abby's experience in Salt Lake City. We already have seen part of this in season 2, but they could show more of the relationship with her father and the build up to the operation I suppose. However, if these flashbacks are extensive, you might not be able to cover everything that happens for Abby Day 1 in Seattle. Maybe episode 1 would cover the introduction flashback and a "Day 0" where we show Abby's day to day life operating from the WLF base, interacting with Isaac and patrolling against scars. The end of the episode might set up that Owen is missing and Abby knows where to go to find him.

Episode 2 would then by Day 1 in it's entirety, Abby's journey from the FOB to the aquarium, meeting Yara and Lev, reuniting with Owen, and their night together.


Episode 3 then I think would be the rest of Abby's flashbacks, showing how her father's death impacted her, showing the history of her relationship with Owen, etc.


Episode 4 would then be Day 2, where Abby feels worried about Yara, brings her to Mel, and travels with Lev to the hospital to retrieve medical supplies. This episode would have the fear of heights moment and rat king encounter in the hospital. While I could plausibly see this split into two episodes, I think you would lose the urgency if you did that.


Episode 5 would then focus on the backstory of the Seraphites, showing how they formed, learning more of their ideology, and even giving us Yara and Lev's backstory in more detail than the game did


Episode 6 would then be Day 3, focusing on chasing Lev to Seraphite Island with Yara, including the death of Manny, and then ending with the devastation of the Seraphites and WLF, and the deaths of Owen and Mel.


Episode 7 could then start with the ending moments of season 2. We follow Abby to the theater, where she kills Jesse, confronts Ellie, and nearly kills her and Dina before Ellie begs for mercy. I don't know if this would be enough to fill an entire episode, so this episode would probably end with the first section of the farm, showing Ellie and Dina's new life with JJ, but also focusing on Ellie's PTSD


Episode 8 could then be Abby's portion of Santa Barbara. We would follow her and Lev as they explore the town, looking for evidence of the Fireflies, and we would see their capture, and possibly get a deeper look at the slavery conditions of the Rattlers


Episode 9 would then start with Tommy relaying the news of Abby in Santa Barbara, and follow Ellie on her journey to track Abby down. The ending would probably be where Ellie nearly gets captured herself, but then gets the intel about the Rattlers hideout


Episode 10 would then focus on Ellie infiltrating the Rattler hideout, tearing the place apart like Joel did with the Fireflies, and end with her confrontation of an emaciated Abby on the beach, and show her return to the farm and perhaps the final flashback to Joel as the game does.

This would be a significantly larger season than season 2, as Craig Mazin has said, but I really don't think there's enough material to stretch this into a season 4, as even my outline is pretty stretched out compared to the game as it is, compared to how Season 2 is doing things. If there was a season 4, I would imagine that would be adapting a potential Part III, but that may be a long way away if so.

I too don't see how they could stretch this to a fourth season, but it also seems like there's gonna be a ton of stuff left for season 3 lol. I could kinda see

[Show spoiler]the entire epilogue--farm, going to kill Abby, return to farm--being like a feature-length finale maybe?

Originally Posted by ps3bd_owner

That wasn't funny at all and she was serious in claiming the baby as hers. Not a joke.

She is serious about being part of the baby's life (which is what Dina explicitly stated she wanted), and then made a joke about "being a dad." Get a grip

[King O.A.]

Originally Posted by morphinapg

I've just done some thinking about how season 3 might be structured, and this is what I came up with. Obviously, don't read unless you've played the game:

[Show spoiler]Episode 1 is tricky. In the game it starts with a flashback to Abby's experience in Salt Lake City. We already have seen part of this in season 2, but they could show more of the relationship with her father and the build up to the operation I suppose. However, if these flashbacks are extensive, you might not be able to cover everything that happens for Abby Day 1 in Seattle. Maybe episode 1 would cover the introduction flashback and a "Day 0" where we show Abby's day to day life operating from the WLF base, interacting with Isaac and patrolling against scars. The end of the episode might set up that Owen is missing and Abby knows where to go to find him.

Episode 2 would then by Day 1 in it's entirety, Abby's journey from the FOB to the aquarium, meeting Yara and Lev, reuniting with Owen, and their night together.


Episode 3 then I think would be the rest of Abby's flashbacks, showing how her father's death impacted her, showing the history of her relationship with Owen, etc.


Episode 4 would then be Day 2, where Abby feels worried about Yara, brings her to Mel, and travels with Lev to the hospital to retrieve medical supplies. This episode would have the fear of heights moment and rat king encounter in the hospital. While I could plausibly see this split into two episodes, I think you would lose the urgency if you did that.


Episode 5 would then focus on the backstory of the Seraphites, showing how they formed, learning more of their ideology, and even giving us Yara and Lev's backstory in more detail than the game did


Episode 6 would then be Day 3, focusing on chasing Lev to Seraphite Island with Yara, including the death of Manny, and then ending with the devastation of the Seraphites and WLF, and the deaths of Owen and Mel.


Episode 7 could then start with the ending moments of season 2. We follow Abby to the theater, where she kills Jesse, confronts Ellie, and nearly kills her and Dina before Ellie begs for mercy. I don't know if this would be enough to fill an entire episode, so this episode would probably end with the first section of the farm, showing Ellie and Dina's new life with JJ, but also focusing on Ellie's PTSD


Episode 8 could then be Abby's portion of Santa Barbara. We would follow her and Lev as they explore the town, looking for evidence of the Fireflies, and we would see their capture, and possibly get a deeper look at the slavery conditions of the Rattlers


Episode 9 would then start with Tommy relaying the news of Abby in Santa Barbara, and follow Ellie on her journey to track Abby down. The ending would probably be where Ellie nearly gets captured herself, but then gets the intel about the Rattlers hideout


Episode 10 would then focus on Ellie infiltrating the Rattler hideout, tearing the place apart like Joel did with the Fireflies, and end with her confrontation of an emaciated Abby on the beach, and show her return to the farm and perhaps the final flashback to Joel as the game does.

This would be a significantly larger season than season 2, as Craig Mazin has said, but I really don't think there's enough material to stretch this into a season 4, as even my outline is pretty stretched out compared to the game as it is, compared to how Season 2 is doing things. If there was a season 4, I would imagine that would be adapting a potential Part III, but that may be a long way away if so.

Highly doubt S3 will be primarily Abby. You can get away with that in a video game (cause you're playing and it's fun). But you run the risk of losing a lot of viewers. HBO won't take that risk. S3 is where it will end. You would have to stretch real wide to make a S4. Look at S2. They've already cut so much.

[Havok83]

Originally Posted by morphinapg

I've just done some thinking about how season 3 might be structured, and this is what I came up with. Obviously, don't read unless you've played the game:

[Show spoiler]Episode 1 is tricky. In the game it starts with a flashback to Abby's experience in Salt Lake City. We already have seen part of this in season 2, but they could show more of the relationship with her father and the build up to the operation I suppose. However, if these flashbacks are extensive, you might not be able to cover everything that happens for Abby Day 1 in Seattle. Maybe episode 1 would cover the introduction flashback and a "Day 0" where we show Abby's day to day life operating from the WLF base, interacting with Isaac and patrolling against scars. The end of the episode might set up that Owen is missing and Abby knows where to go to find him.

Episode 2 would then by Day 1 in it's entirety, Abby's journey from the FOB to the aquarium, meeting Yara and Lev, reuniting with Owen, and their night together.


Episode 3 then I think would be the rest of Abby's flashbacks, showing how her father's death impacted her, showing the history of her relationship with Owen, etc.


Episode 4 would then be Day 2, where Abby feels worried about Yara, brings her to Mel, and travels with Lev to the hospital to retrieve medical supplies. This episode would have the fear of heights moment and rat king encounter in the hospital. While I could plausibly see this split into two episodes, I think you would lose the urgency if you did that.


Episode 5 would then focus on the backstory of the Seraphites, showing how they formed, learning more of their ideology, and even giving us Yara and Lev's backstory in more detail than the game did


Episode 6 would then be Day 3, focusing on chasing Lev to Seraphite Island with Yara, including the death of Manny, and then ending with the devastation of the Seraphites and WLF, and the deaths of Owen and Mel.


Episode 7 could then start with the ending moments of season 2. We follow Abby to the theater, where she kills Jesse, confronts Ellie, and nearly kills her and Dina before Ellie begs for mercy. I don't know if this would be enough to fill an entire episode, so this episode would probably end with the first section of the farm, showing Ellie and Dina's new life with JJ, but also focusing on Ellie's PTSD


Episode 8 could then be Abby's portion of Santa Barbara. We would follow her and Lev as they explore the town, looking for evidence of the Fireflies, and we would see their capture, and possibly get a deeper look at the slavery conditions of the Rattlers


Episode 9 would then start with Tommy relaying the news of Abby in Santa Barbara, and follow Ellie on her journey to track Abby down. The ending would probably be where Ellie nearly gets captured herself, but then gets the intel about the Rattlers hideout


Episode 10 would then focus on Ellie infiltrating the Rattler hideout, tearing the place apart like Joel did with the Fireflies, and end with her confrontation of an emaciated Abby on the beach, and show her return to the farm and perhaps the final flashback to Joel as the game does.

This would be a significantly larger season than season 2, as Craig Mazin has said, but I really don't think there's enough material to stretch this into a season 4, as even my outline is pretty stretched out compared to the game as it is, compared to how Season 2 is doing things. If there was a season 4, I would imagine that would be adapting a potential Part III, but that may be a long way away if so.

Theres a 3 month gap between Abby killing Joel and Ellie going out on her revenge tour which is different than the game. That has to be for a reason and I think its to give them the space to tell stories with Abby crew within that gap so that season 3 isnt just a rehash of 2 from her perspective

[eiknarf]

Originally Posted by ps3bd_owner

That wasn't funny at all and she was serious in claiming the baby as hers. Not a joke.

It's sometimes difficult for those of us NOT on the spectrum to understand what emotion those on the spectrum are putting forth... hence why viewers cant tell if Bella/Ellie is joking or not. This falls under the category of why people are scrutinizing her acting or lack thereof.

We didnt notice it as much in Game of Thrones or S1 of TLOU because she was younger. The "tells" gradually show themselves as one on the spectrum ages. And they show LATER in females than males (that's why it's harder to detect in girls)

[eightslicesofpie]

I think it is less that Bella Ramsey is autistic and more that an increasingly large number of people are media illiterate

No one I have spoken to in real life has had even the slightest issue with understanding the meaning of anything in this show like people in this thread have lol

[dubldown]

Originally Posted by eightslicesofpie

No one I have spoken to in real life has had even the slightest issue with understanding the meaning of anything in this show like people in this thread have lol

Preach!

It's unbelievable to read through these comments and how people are interpreting things. How does someone make the argument that Ellie is 'acting too childish' but then also say she was being serious about being a dad.

Think that through a little.

[BluBonnet]

Why am I not surprised to hear about this?

[morphinapg]

Originally Posted by ps3bd_owner

That wasn't funny at all and she was serious in claiming the baby as hers. Not a joke.

The "dad" part was the joke, not that she was interested in joining Dina in parenting a kid.

Ellie is obviously the more masculine part of that relationship, so she was making a joke about that.

[MarcelS1]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Why am I not surprised to hear about this?

Don't believe anything your read! They are trying to salvage this. Episode 4 was a bit cringe in my opinion. The way Ellie and Dina behave in Seatle, quite careless, it's a wonder they weren't surprised by these zombies (or Fedra) earlier. Running away from these zombies and 100 meter further going into an old building and expecting to be save, without any reconnaissance? Having sex while a few hours before, only 100 meters away from where they were chased by these zombies. And there is much more that annoyed / surpised me about this episode. I for one had a hard time sitting through this episode.

[The Lizard King]

I was here for the fingerbang.

[joshsquash729]

Craig and Neil said on the official podcast that the reason they cut a lot of the stuff in season 2 was that they weren't sure that they were going to get a season 3 at the time and wanted to prioritize certain things over others, but now that they know they have more room to tell the story, they're planning on adding those things, like more of the WLFs vs. the Seraphites. So it's not so much "cut" as it is "shifted". Personally, I'm fine with the change; I think it'll make certain things like Lev and Yara hit even deeper if it's going on alongside the other stuff. I can see them stretching it out to a 4th season, but I think it depends on how much new stuff they add, and how many episodes are in season 3. If they are going back and adding in more WLF vs. Seraphites, and expanding on some backstories, then that could push things even more. If there's 6 or 7 episodes in season 3 as well, I can see a couple events in the latter half of Abby's story being pushed to a 4th season, and there's juuuust enough meat on the Santa Barbara storyline that you could stretch it out a bit, even if it's not necessary.

Regarding the baby- it was very obviously a joke. Not only is Ellie famous for telling Dad jokes, but it's a silly allusion to heterosexual couples- when the woman is pregnant, obviously, the person not carrying the baby is the Dad. It's got nothing to do with autism or being trans or whatever silly argument anyone wants to make. It would be like adopting a pet and saying you're its parent- people know you didn't literally give birth to this animal, you're just filling in the de facto parental role.

As for hiding in the theater- I didn't see it as silly at all. The infected obviously piled up to a point where they couldn't give chase any more, which allowed Ellie and Dina to fall out of view. They can't see through walls- as long as they're out of sight and not making noise, the infected wouldn't be able to tell where they are, no matter how close they are to the horde itself, which would give up on the chase after a while anyway. Especially when Ellie's just been bitten and Dina fully expects to have to put her down- it's more a place for them to catch their breath for a moment that they just happen to end up staying the night in so Ellie can prove to Dina she's not going to turn. I'm sure they figured the commotion of their entrance would draw out any infected, and who's to say that they didn't sweep the place offscreen? Not every detail can be covered in the show, but that doesn't mean we can't ascertain that it happened. If they spent time showing them searching the theater, it would take up time for other, more important details, and people would complain that they wasted time showing shots of them walking around.

It's troubling, but not entirely surprising, that people need everything literally spelled out for them nowadays. What happened to subtlety and allusion?

[MuffinMcFluffin]

Speaking of which, have y'all seen the narrative push that Critical Drinker and others have been spreading lately? They're all saying this thing akin to "Viewers are leaving the show in mass Exodus after Joel's death." Then they all point to the same numbers where E1 to E2 showed like a 30% drop, and E2 to E3 showed a lesser increase in viewership.

I'm sorry, but did they all take stupid pills? The drop came before his death (and by all accounts is a natural drop from a season premiere), and then after came a rise.

Can y'all put these grifters in their place and try and rewrite this narrative? It's aggravating. The numbers literally say opposite of what happened. Why people can't see this, I have no idea.

[MarcelS1]

Originally Posted by joshsquash729

I'm sure they figured the commotion of their entrance would draw out any infected, and who's to say that they didn't sweep the place offscreen? Not every detail can be covered in the show, but that doesn't mean we can't ascertain that it happened. If they spent time showing them searching the theater, it would take up time for other, more important details, and people would complain that they wasted time showing shots of them walking around.

It's troubling, but not entirely surprising, that people need everything literally spelled out for them nowadays. What happened to subtlety and allusion?

Example: when someone is going outside without a coat when temperature is below zero, this person says I am going back in to get my coat. Next scene we see this person outside with a coat on, than I say you are correct, people don't need to see this, we understand that. But something like sweeping the place is an important part to show (or let the audience know verbally) when you are watching a zombie show, even if it is only for 10 seconds or so. But that is just my opinion.

[EvaDK]

Originally Posted by MuffinMcFluffin

Speaking of which, have y'all seen the narrative push that Critical Drinker and others have been spreading lately?

He's just one of a batch of YouTubers that specialize in doing strongly opinionated commentary on games, films and tv that they don't like, or straight up hate. Hate sells.

I was so disappointed in André from Midnight's Edge joining their echo chamber some time back; haven't bothered with his channel since. A shame, because André has real insight into how the industry works, especially in genre filmmaking and how IPs have been adapted on the big screen.

[MuffinMcFluffin]

Originally Posted by EvaDK

He's just one of a batch of YouTubers that specialize in doing strongly opinionated commentary on games, films and tv that they don't like, or straight up hate. Hate sells.

I was so disappointed in André from Midnight's Edge joining their echo chamber some time back; haven't bothered with his channel since. A shame, because André has real insight into how the industry works, especially in genre filmmaking and how IPs have been adapted on the big screen.

I'm fine with him doing it. I even watch a lot of it, even if I disagree.

My problem with this one is this isn't an opinion, it's just a wrong fact.

Headline: TLOU S2 ratings drop after major character death.
Reality: Ratings actually increased.

Then they point to RT audience score, which I mentioned "speaking of which" because of the review bombing going on.

People can be upset about Joel's death. I don't think it should be a defining trait of the whole season unless you firmly believe no one else steps up or the story is too weak, but whatever. This is clearly a targeted attack though, and they just want to point to it to stir the pot.