Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Okay, so we may have some big news on Snoke here, not just his appearance but his actual identity.

Basically, this Spanish magazine scan popped up recently, and there's a sketch of what they claim is Snoke:

[Show spoiler]

Now, the sketch itself it's safe to say isn't official, it's traced from this Darth Plagueis fanart. Where it gets interesting is, Collider say they have checked with three different sources that all say this is in fact what Snoke looks like. So while the sketch itself can be dismissed as fanart, depending on how reliable Colliders' sources are it's still possible it's a close approximation of what the character looks like. If that is true, it's pretty big because it means Snoke is a Muun, the same species as Darth Plagueis, which means these two characters are likely one and the same.

I have mixed feeling about this, if it does indeed turn out to be true. On one hand, I hoped for something "scarier", more monstrous and unique for the characters' look. On the other hand, it's a neat way to tie it all together - the PT, the OT and the ST - by bringing in Palpatine's old master who we were told learned how to cheat death (which would obviously explain how he's still around even after Palpatine killed him, or thought he did), could influence the midi-chlorians to create life (may he be Anakin's "father"?), etc. There's a lot of potential in that.

Anyone know how reliable Collider usually are with this stuff?

I've long had a problem with how the prequels match up to the originals, they're so different on so many levels that I've never been able to regard them as being part of the same saga. But I've also long thought that Ep VII may be able to tie it all together in a way that Lucas' crude retrofitting the originals could never do, by taking PT characters mentioned previously and writing them into the ongoing story in an organic way and shedding light on past events. It'd be cruelly ironic if JJ and Kasdan did what Lucas didn't have the cojones to do - confirm that Anakin was created by the dark side - and they got praised for it.

Then again, Larry Kasdan did recently dismiss the PT in an interview so I'm not sure that Snoke will turn out to be the biggest of big bads. That picture does say he's the

[Show spoiler]supreme leader of the First Order, though. Palpatine part 2, perhaps...?

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Okay, so we may have some big news on Snoke here, not just his appearance but his actual identity.

Basically, this Spanish magazine scan popped up recently, and there's a sketch of what they claim is Snoke:

[Show spoiler]

Now, the sketch itself it's safe to say isn't official, it's traced from this Darth Plagueis fanart. Where it gets interesting is, Collider say they have checked with three different sources that all say this is in fact what Snoke looks like. So while the sketch itself can be dismissed as fanart, depending on how reliable Colliders' sources are it's still possible it's a close approximation of what the character looks like. If that is true, it's pretty big because it means Snoke is a Muun, the same species as Darth Plagueis, which means these two characters are likely one and the same.

I have mixed feeling about this, if it does indeed turn out to be true. On one hand, I hoped for something "scarier", more monstrous and unique for the characters' look. On the other hand, it's a neat way to tie it all together - the PT, the OT and the ST - by bringing in Palpatine's old master who we were told learned how to cheat death (which would obviously explain how he's still around even after Palpatine killed him, or thought he did), could influence the midi-chlorians to create life (may he be Anakin's "father"?), etc. There's a lot of potential in that.

Anyone know how reliable Collider usually are with this stuff?

Collider is usually pretty reliable.

[SuperFlyHighGuy]

Originally Posted by Terminated

New Rey Star Wars: The Force Awakens Figure released at Walmart!

Oh and what's that she's holding....

[Show spoiler]

Wonder what

[Show spoiler]a Hassk Thug is? Kinda has a Yoda-like face?

[CinemaBlu]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It'd be cruelly ironic if JJ and Kasdan did what Lucas didn't have the cojones to do - confirm that Anakin was created by the dark side - and they got praised for it.

Palpatine hinted at it very clearly during the opera scene in ROTS. But as I understand it, Anakin wasn't exactly created by the dark side. He was created by the force as a reaction against Plagueis's extremely corrupted use of the force.

[Geoff D]

That's why I said "confirm", as the hint was obvious enough. Where has the rest of that explanation come from though, first I've heard of it?

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by AlwaysRelaxing24

They aren't even releasing this to critics before the movie opens.

Which means it is a steaming pile of crap and they know it.... or it is so good that they don't want it spoiled at all and know they will make money with word of mouth after the opening weekend.

Sadly, history is not on our side....

In every other case, I would agree that a film not released to critics is going to be crap. But with $90 million worth of tickets sold in advance, they don't need the critics, although I'm still very surprised that they wouldn't want the NY Times and other major publications to have a review on opening day, even though all papers have far less influence than they once did.

From the trailers and the little we actually know, my bet is that the production values are going to be very good and I think we're even going to get some pretty good acting (within the confines of this genre) and interesting characters. But what I think we might not get is originality. I think it's going to be a bunch of stuff that we've pretty much seen before, much like a James Bond film. There's rebels and villains and battles in space and blowing up stuff and Jedi and Sith and characters who don't know who they really are. That's not necessarily bad, but it's unrealistic to think that any Star Wars film can have the impact of the very first one because we already know this world.

[CinemaBlu]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's why I said "confirm", as the hint was obvious enough. Where has the rest of that explanation come from though, first I've heard of it?

It's really my interpretation, considering the prophecy of the "chosen one" is to bring the force back into balance. It would make sense that the dark side would be the catalyst to necessitate Anakin's birth. Plagueis must have had to corrupt the force to an intense degree to create that catalyst.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by jayman3

Darth Vader sings "Hello" - YouTube

Star Wars looks pretty good in black and white. Never would have imagined that.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It'd be cruelly ironic if JJ and Kasdan did what Lucas didn't have the cojones to do - confirm that Anakin was created by the dark side - and they got praised for it.

Originally Posted by CinemaBlu

Palpatine hinted at it very clearly during the opera scene in ROTS. But as I understand it, Anakin wasn't exactly created by the dark side. He was created by the force as a reaction against Plagueis's extremely corrupted use of the force.

How about a totally different plot device (even though there's no chance JJ is doing this): How about if Anakin's mother was wrong when she said there was no father - there was a father, tied to the Dark Side if not also a Sith Lord. He used his powers to erase her memory of the conception (or she simply lied to protect Anakin). And he's still alive and around for Episode VII (or VIII). One thing I would like about such plotting is that it would eliminate the b.s. about Anakin being a Christ or anti-Christ figure from a virgin birth.

[KOQ24]

did the prequels get advanced reviews?

[imsounoriginal]

I'll say one thing - if Snoke really is Plagueis, who has cheated death and manipulated everything all along and is now the big baddie, it makes the rumored Hayden Christensen appearance in Episode VIII a lot more interesting. Especially since he was rumored to be in training for what supposedly would be a cameo, which never made much sense. If Plagueis could cheat death and bring people back, who's to say he didn't extend Vader, who may be his own son, the same courtesy?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

I'll say one thing - if Snoke really is Plagueis, who has cheated death and manipulated everything all along and is now the big baddie, it makes the rumored Hayden Christensen appearance in Episode VIII a lot more interesting. Especially since he was rumored to be in training for what supposedly would be a cameo, which never made much sense. If Plagueis could cheat death and bring people back, who's to say he didn't extend Vader, who may be his own son, the same courtesy?

Vader's already turned back to the good side though, what good would it do to have him get resurrected but turn evil again? (Otherwise why would Plagueis bring him back?) That's some fan-fic/EU bullshit right there. Besides, the way Palps sells it to Anakin I always thought that the power was about cheating death by manipulating the midis to prolong life, not actually raising people from the dead. (A zombie Vader would be just about the greatest thing ever though. ) Palps may have thought that he killed his master but Plagueis could've got one over on his old apprentice and laid low all this time.

[Geoff D]

One thing's for sure, if they really do bring Vader back then they weren't kidding about wanting to return to the ways of the OT! Perhaps we'll have Luke vs Vader in the middle chapter all over again?

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by SteamPunkCat

Oh, wow! How 'bout that? He does look a bit like that fan art, but also like the McQuarrie concept art I shared about a month ago. Except he's not blue. Now I definitely wouldn't be surprised if that's how his body type will look like.

Recently Neal Scanlan, head of creature effects on the movie, said that Snoke is seven feet tall and "very, very thin". Whether he's a Muun or something more closely resembling that Palpatine concept design, "very thin" certainly fits.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I've long had a problem with how the prequels match up to the originals, they're so different on so many levels that I've never been able to regard them as being part of the same saga. But I've also long thought that Ep VII may be able to tie it all together in a way that Lucas' crude retrofitting the originals could never do, by taking PT characters mentioned previously and writing them into the ongoing story in an organic way and shedding light on past events. It'd be cruelly ironic if JJ and Kasdan did what Lucas didn't have the cojones to do - confirm that Anakin was created by the dark side - and they got praised for it.

Then again, Larry Kasdan did recently dismiss the PT in an interview so I'm not sure that Snoke will turn out to be the biggest of big bads. That picture does say he's the

[Show spoiler]supreme leader of the First Order, though. Palpatine part 2, perhaps...?

Indeed, his title is Supreme Leader, and the First Order is what he's leader of (in addition to the Knights of Ren, it would seem). Will he be the big bad throughout the whole trilogy like Palpatine was? Remains to be seen, but for now everything's pointing to him being on top of the villainous food chain. If he really is Plagueis then he will definitely be important.

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Collider is usually pretty reliable.

Only a week left until we find out how reliable they were in this case.

[imsounoriginal]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Vader's already turned back to the good side though, what good would it do to have him get resurrected but turn evil again? (Otherwise why would Plagueis bring him back?) That's some fan-fic/EU bullshit right there. Besides, the way Palps sells it to Anakin I always thought that the power was about cheating death by manipulating the midis to prolong life, not actually raising people from the dead. (A zombie Vader would be just about the greatest thing ever though. ) Palps may have thought that he killed his master but Plagueis could've got one over on his old apprentice and laid low all this time.

Could easily see Plagueis being displeased with Kylo Ren allowing the goodies to win in Force Awakens (presumably) and saying that he'll bring back the only one whose powers ever rivaled his own, with the intention of bringing Vader back to the Dark Side (especially if Luke has turned). But Vader/Anakin doesn't fall back to the Dark Side, and decides to help bring down the First Order while turning Luke back to the Light. Would mirror the Luke redeeming Daddy arc of the OT (JJ loves his "homages").

Either way, I'll be really happy if he ends up being Plagueis, simply because it'll mean they're not totally throwing out the PT. But it will be odd for some people in the audience to automatically know who "Snoke" is while everyone else has to find out. Hope there's not some long, explanatory scene of "remember when..."

EDIT: and don't forget, Geoff, all the new movies are fan-fiction; can't rule out anything, no matter how absurd

[CinemaBlu]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Palps may have thought that he killed his master but Plagueis could've got one over on his old apprentice and laid low all this time.

It wouldn't be the first time that happened. The Jedi thought for a 1,000 years that the Sith were destroyed for good. Which would lead me to speculate that Plagueis, if alive, is over 1,000 years old and was twice thought to be killed. There's no way the Sith could stay quiet for a millennium unless there was one with a long life expectancy patiently waiting to make his move.

EDIT:
It would also explain how he became powerful enough to cause Anakin's birth.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

Could easily see Plagueis being displeased with Kylo Ren allowing the goodies to win in Force Awakens (presumably) and saying that he'll bring back the only one whose powers ever rivaled his own, with the intention of bringing Vader back to the Dark Side (especially if Luke has turned). But Vader/Anakin doesn't fall back to the Dark Side, and decides to help bring down the First Order while turning Luke back to the Light. Would mirror the Luke redeeming Daddy arc of the OT (JJ loves his "homages").

Either way, I'll be really happy if he ends up being Plagueis, simply because it'll mean they're not totally throwing out the PT. But it will be odd for some people in the audience to automatically know who "Snoke" is while everyone else has to find out. Hope there's not some long, explanatory scene of "remember when..."

Good Vader bringing Evil Luke back to the good side...mind BLOWN.

[MechaGodzilla]

One fan theory floating around out there is that Snoke, who we know is scarred and disfigured, is looking to "heal" himself by being reborn as Vader and this is where Hayden comes into the picture in Episode VIII. Weird ass concept but also strangely intriguing, it'd certainly be something new for this franchise.

[Geoff D]

Plagueis gets reborn as Vader? Hmmm...that would certainly get around the 'Vader's turning to the dark side AGAIN?' angle. So many theories, so much hopeful geekery. I pray it doesn't all get shat upon in a week or so's time.

[Thomas Guycott]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Plagueis gets reborn as Vader? Hmmm...that would certainly get around the 'Vader's turning to the dark side AGAIN?' angle. So many theories, so much hopeful geekery. I pray it doesn't all get shat upon in a week or so's time.

Nothing would make me happier than seeing a bunch of dumb nerds get their stupid, nonsensical theories slapped back in their faces.