Official Power Sound Audio Thread.

[tristian0507]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

I build my own subwoofers. I see the price of components go up all the time - amplifiers, drivers, cabinet materials, you name it.


Occasionally, they drop, but not often. Either the components are being closed out for new versions, or for cheaper quality, which I don't go for.


I make my subs with JL Audio components - the ones made in America - and with the top line from Infinity. Cabinets are layered pine with real walnut - not veneer, thick slabs of the stuff. These are for myself, and my family. The price of hardwood is not dropping.


If a smaller manufacturer is going to use a product, he can either go cheap and pay higher post-manufacturing support costs (warranty is not free, as quiet as it's kept) or go for better quality materials, and reduce those costs. If he's fortunate, he can eliminate them altogether, with good stuff.


In the case of subs, it can be a tightwalk on a razor blade. We all know the headaches - dead amps, sensitivity problems with "auto-on" circuits, humming and buzzing due to grounding issues, the whole range. Quality components eliminate the guesswork.


I have a 13" JL Audio Fathom, the last sub I purchased. After re-arranging my home theater, I had a terrible hum. Knowing the quality of the JL, which cost a fortune, I tried plugging it into another outlet - and the hum went away. With a cheaper sub, I would have suspected the unit itself - turning into a support nightmare, since there was no real problem.


If you want cheaper gear, it's out there. Go for it. Smaller "boutique" builders are driven by the low-cost/high quality paradigm, where the big guys go for one, or the other.


I'm glad Tom V. posts here - he wants to support his product, in plain English, with the people who actually use his stuff. It's an intangible, but it does have cost. I'm sure that if he wasn't legally constrained, he could really tell us where the bodies are buried in the quality wars, and tell us clearly what it junk. He could also tell us what corners he cuts to win on price, but that might scare people who simply won't trust him to cut corners only where it won't impinge on the sound.


The cheapest way to get a good sub is to cut up some materials, buy the best equipment, and build it yourself. Just realize that when I do that, I can't build a decent sub for less than about $600 - usually around $800/$1,000. That's just me, my tools, and a blown weekend, or perhaps two or three.

1. Drivers. Generally about $180 - $220 each. I build either dual driver units, or build in pairs.
2. Amplifier. A good one, 300 watts, is about $150. 500, around twice that. 1,000 or more, look at around $400-$600.
3. Wood, proper tools, fasteners, connectors - figure another $100 - $200, and it can go much higher if you're picky.

It takes that kind of money to build a true "Honey, I'm home" subwoofer. Less than that, and you're making compromises that may suit you, for sound, environment, or budget, but it won't save you much if you're looking for quality.


If Tom can do this with better purchasing power, or shared labor with a team, or whatever he does, be happy.

Im not stupid to think he gets the components for free. All im saying is he probably making more money now then he was before with price increase. Just like i question gas companies, I will do the same to any other. I dont understand why people just stand there and say its ok. When gas companies raise prices and give there explanation on why, are you like - thats fine. Look what happened to the mortgage industry, we kept saying its fine and the country ended up with homes they couldn't afford.

[tang7969]

Originally Posted by tristian0507

Im not stupid to think he gets the components for free. All im saying is he probably making more money now then he was before with price increase. Just like i question gas companies, I will do the same to any other. I dont understand why people just stand there and say its ok. When gas companies raise prices and give there explanation on why, are you like - thats fine. Look what happened to the mortgage industry, we kept saying its fine and the country ended up with homes they couldn't afford.

Dude, this is just getting stupid now. PSA is making more money because customers see the huge value they are getting with their subs. If you want to talk about the American economy I'm sure there is a thread on another website.

[tristian0507]

Originally Posted by tang7969

Dude, this is just getting stupid now. PSA is making more money because customers see the huge value they are getting with their subs. If you want to talk about the American economy I'm sure there is a thread on another website.

Maybe I'm to stupid, cause i don't get it. If you read every explanation that any company has given for a price increase, they are all going to sound the same. Cost of this, cost of that. But, they keep getting richer. Why is that? You defend a company and have no access to any of there financial records to justify your information. But then again you are ok with a price increase. I don't get it!?! Good products and your right Tom provides good customer service, little on the defensive side today, but good guy. Ill decide weather i can justify the price difference for the product. Every company will try to earn your business and tell you its the best product, thats why theres plenty of forums for all products. If im here its because im interested, if you cant criticism im sure there a forum for that!

[tristian0507]

Originally Posted by schan1269

Not kissing arse.

I did the SVS Ultra review for another site. Not paid, just enjoyed for 90 days.

Tom is the V of SVS. I have a feeling I know why he started PSA.

Where SVS has decided to make their stuff...and not charge less. (But SVS isn't the only company making their stuff in China...and still pricing premium)

Everybody seems to be caught up with "made in china". No im not Chinese. When is "made in USA" what does that really mean now? We don't make the best cars, etc... Its just overrated to put a bigger price tag. Listen, i think psa has good products, but these increases i just cant justify. I cant understand why people just take it and tell tom its ok. If everybody would be against it, what do you think tom would have to do, bring the price down. Its business sense, everybody does it. Companies test the waters and if they dont have to many people complain they keep doing the same thing.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by tristian0507

Everybody seems to be caught up with "made in china". No im not Chinese. When is "made in USA" what does that really mean now? We don't make the best cars, etc... Its just overrated to put a bigger price tag. Listen, i think psa has good products, but these increases i just cant justify. I cant understand why people just take it and tell tom its ok. If everybody would be against it, what do you think tom would have to do, bring the price down. Its business sense, everybody does it. Companies test the waters and if they dont have to many people complain they keep doing the same thing.

Could we interest you in Zu or Ohm Walsh?

I doubt it...cause you'll doubt their latest price increase motives...

[tristian0507]

Originally Posted by schan1269

Could we interest you in Zu or Ohm Walsh?

I doubt it...cause you'll doubt their latest price increase motives...

I seriously dont get it or ya'll shet money to throw away at anything. Why not question it! Yes, he provides good service and may you feel bad to say something or what is it. To me its common sense. If a burger costs $1.00, what do think a business is going to try to do, increase it! Make more money, thats every business goal!

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by tristian0507

I seriously dont get it or ya'll shet money to throw away at anything. Why not question it! Yes, he provides good service and may you feel bad to say something or what is it. To me its common sense. If a burger costs $1.00, what do think a business is going to try to do, increase it! Make more money, thats every business goal!

If you don't think the product is worth the price increase than shop elsewhere or go diy. No need to keep *****ing about it.

[tristian0507]

Originally Posted by wormraper

If you don't think the product is worth the price increase than shop elsewhere or go diy. No need to keep *****ing about it.

This is my opinion. I didnt know i had to agree with everything. You guys defend the company like if you were co-owners. Again, he is not going to give you a free sub, stop kissing his arce. You guys defend a company based on what. Why are you guys scared of questioning Tom. But, i guess you are fine paying more every time your asked to. Its simple, if everybody stops buying these products when they so called have a price increases due to components costs, they would bring the price down. You dont need to be intelligent or need a degree in business finance to know this.

[deltadube]

Originally Posted by tristian0507

Why does it have to be complaining? Im inquiring about a product and i want to know everything about it. Why are you kissing his a**, he is not going to give you a free sub! Why cant i question companies that increase prices, i have the right to ask why! Can you justify gas prices? Its a business, thats what they do! To this day we all know how it works, at least most of us.

so which sub are you interested in buying?? if you kiss a** once in a while you might make some friends..

cheers

[tristian0507]

Originally Posted by deltadube

so which sub are you interested in buying?? if you kiss a** once in a while you might make some friends..

cheers

Thats the problem i have with this. I understand this is a passion and trust me ive been a theater junkie forever. I have no doubt Tom is a good guy. He being nice is part of customer service. Thats one of his strong points. That doesn't mean we have to agree with every business decision he makes. Ultimately without us he has noting. At work if i don't produce customers i don't have check or job. Ive been through these price increases at work, and i know how they work. Ultimately its up to the customer to agree with it or not. There so much competition in every industry that customers have plenty of options to choose from. I dont know why people are defending psa when they have noting to go off. Tom i understand, its his company.

[CRAZYKAT]

There was a guy over at the AVS PSA thread over a year ago ready to buy over 4000 dollars worth of speakers to support a PSA sub that he was thinking of buying, I'm glad the Company he works for or the Company he owns makes a profit to be able to pay him a wage so he has the money like that to spend on the products HE wants to purchase.

The guy had a sign on name like yours. Don't know what happened to the guy.

Some people state their opinion and point of view, and some go on and on.

[tristian0507]

Originally Posted by CRAZYKAT

There was a guy over at the AVS PSA thread over a year ago ready to buy over 4000 dollars worth of speakers to support a PSA sub that he was thinking of buying, I'm glad the Company he works for or the Company he owns makes a profit to be able to pay him a wage so he has the money like that to spend on the products HE wants to purchase.

The guy had a sign on name like yours. Don't know what happened to the guy.

Some people state their opinion and point of view, and some go on and on.

Again, i don't think people realize that he is not handing free subs. Stop kissing his arce! Ill move on when I'm ready. Im sure Tom is happy for all the support and the money coming in. I guess your another fanboy of psa and thinks its ok to pay more. I guess everyone here justifies the increase, nice work Tom. You have great convincing powers. I dont get it, i really dont. Its simple business tricks they do to increase prices. And the way i dont work for any sub company. Its funny how someone disagrees and its considered a fake person working the competitor. Be smarter then that.

[CRAZYKAT]

Originally Posted by tristian0507

Again, i don't think people realize that he is not handing free subs. Stop kissing his arce! Ill move on when I'm ready. Im sure Tom is happy for all the support and the money coming in. I guess your another fanboy of psa and thinks its ok to pay more. I guess everyone here justifies the increase, nice work Tom. You have great convincing powers. I dont get it, i really dont. Its simple business tricks they do to increase prices.

Some people state their opinion and point of view, and some go on and on.

JUST what do you want the folks on this thread to say???
I won't kiss yours and you need to get your head out of it.


This is my final response to your posts here, it's better to just ignore them and not reply

[tristian0507]

Originally Posted by CRAZYKAT

Some people state their opinion and point of view, and some go on and on.

JUST what do you want the folks on this thread to say???
I won't kiss yours and you need to get your head out of it.


This is my final response to your posts here, it's better to just ignore them and not reply

If you want to ignore the truth then go on with your life. Im glad you like to take it in hard! The truth that is. I wont go anywhere, you will still hear from me. They don't teach stupidity, imagine if they did!?!

Like i said, i will still consider PSA. Hopefully they don't have another price increase soon...im sure another one is coming... I better make a decision fast. Society gets better and better, got to love it.

Tom,
No hard feelings. You have your way of doing business and there will always be people like me (dont kiss arce and have balls) to tell you i disagree with your business decision. Iam the customer and customers come first!

[deltadube]

some people need professional help....

[tristian0507]

Here is a question for all of you. If we stopped using cars for 1 week of strike, what do you think oil companies would do? How money would they loose in one week?!?

Do i think psa is a good product, of course. Do i believe the BS of the price increase, lets be a little smarter then that.

Its in psa best interest to increase prices with the marketing it does in comparison to other brands. Im not mad, i just disagree cause i cant justify the increase. Noting wrong with that, let me be.

My argument is simple, psa is making more money with the price increase, if thats case then be real, and lay off the BS. Thats all im saying. I rather have a company be upfront ( i know its never going to happen) instead of feeding nonsense. Whats the big deal, am i the only one that thinks a business is always going to try to make more money. You always want to make more then the year before, and that involves price increases. That all im saying.

Again, i like all psa products. Am i going to make a purchase, who knows. Subs im considering are- psa, hsu, and svs. They are all good products.

[tristian0507]

Originally Posted by deltadube

some people need professional help....

You might need it, since you have been brain washed. Better yet, take a business class and it will open your world. This is basic business operations that occur in a daily basis. Some just choose to ignore it since they are scared to do something about it. People rather be part of the system then the solution. If you have money to throw away like that, hey its your choice. You might have money tomorrow, but health can take that away in a second.

[wormraper]

I have no dog in this race as I build all my ownsubs and I'm not kissing arse as you put it... he made a slight increase to his prices and you have two choices, you can whine about it for ages, or you can purchase elsewhere, since there are so much competition as you put it. You made your point, you disagree with increase, and that's your prerogative. However, the only way to get your message heard is NOT buy one, not whining about it for post after post after a tiny price increase on a message board

[tristian0507]

Originally Posted by wormraper

I have no dog in this race as I build all my ownsubs and I'm not kissing arse as you put it... he made a slight increase to his prices and you have two choices, you can whine about it for ages, or you can purchase elsewhere, since there are so much competition as you put it. You made your point, you disagree with increase, and that's your prerogative. However, the only way to get your message heard is NOT buy one, not whining about it for post after post after a tiny price increase on a message board

You must be another fanboy or as somebody else put you work for psa. Whining, really. Is that how you see it, im just speaking the truth. If you like to bend over and let companies rape you. Im sorry to hear that. Im puzzled by the responses, why would you be ok with paying more. Is it so bad to question companies? You make tom/psa sound like god. He is far from that. "Slight increases" you make it seem like its ok. Why is it ok? Are we to stupid to realize what companies do? Why do we let them. You be amazed how 1 unhappy person using the web/social media can effect a business. There is plenty of studies, google it. When you see oil prices go up do say cool its only a slight increases, but those increases keep coming and haven't stopped yet. You must be rich so you don't care. Again, if you think you have life figured out, health can take that away in a second.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by tristian0507

You must be another fanboy or as somebody else put you work for psa. Whining, really. Is that how you see it, im just speaking the truth. If you like to bend over and let companies rape you. Im sorry to hear that. Im puzzled by the responses, why would you be ok with paying more. Is it so bad to question companies? You make tom/psa sound like god. He is far from that. "Slight increases" you make it seem like its ok. Why is it ok? Are we to stupid to realize what companies do? Why do we let them. You be amazed how 1 unhappy person using the web/social media can effect a business. There is plenty of studies, google it. When you see oil prices go up do say cool its only a slight increases, but those increases keep coming and haven't stopped yet. You must be rich so you don't care. Again, if you think you have life figured out, health can take that away in a second.

Sounds more like you're angry and bitter. He can charge what he likes and we can agree or disagree by choosing to purchase or not.

And as for health. I know more than most about health as I live with a chronic pain condition daily that's on par with advance arthritis pain.