Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[sapiendut]

Expecting soap with your carwash is not what I consider as being picky.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

True story, sometime back I went thru a brushless car wash and it was out of soap so did nothing for the dirty vehicle. I went to the attendant, explained the process and asked for a refund of my money. The attendant said, “no one else has complained and I was being overly picky.”

Back in the day, I went to see Behind Enemy Lines on opening night with a couple of buddies. Right from the start, I was saying something was wrong with the audio. When the shoot down scene started, I told my friends it was in mono and got up and left. It seemed every head turned toward us wondering what the hell we were doing during a key scene in the movie. I found a manager asking for our money back because it was in mono. He asked “How did you know?” We got our money back eventually as he admitted they were having equipment problems and it was in fact in mono.

I always wondered how many people in a packed theater knew something was off, or did they think “This is great!”

[SCLee]

Just finished Lady and the Tramp on Disney+ (despite being nowhere near as good as the original) the picture quality was great. If they've lowered the bitrate it didn't show. Another crystal clear picture with excellent colours and contrast. Okay, if I'm being overly picky, there was slight haloing in fast motion (but it was barely noticeable.) Maybe bitrate is overrated? It was clearly in UHD with HDR.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Back in the day, I went to see Behind Enemy Lines on opening night with a couple of buddies. Right from the start, I was saying something was wrong with the audio. When the shoot down scene started, I told my friends it was in mono and got up and left. It seemed every head turned toward us wondering what the hell we were doing during a key scene in the movie. I found a manager asking for our money back because it was in mono. He asked “How did you know?” We got our money back eventually as he admitted they were having equipment problems and it was in fact in mono.

I always wondered how many people in a packed theater knew something was off, or did they think “This is great!”

Most people don't care about sound. Most people listen through their TV speakers, a few more have soundbars and a very tiny amount have surround sound speakers. Even less have Atmos.

I'm not sure I could have told the difference either.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Just finished Lady and the Tramp on Disney+ (despite being nowhere near as good as the original) the picture quality was great. If they've lowered the bitrate it didn't show. Another crystal clear picture with excellent colours and contrast. Okay, if I'm being overly picky, there was slight haloing in fast motion (but it was barely noticeable.) Maybe bitrate is overrated?

What’s your screen size, display model number, calibrated or not, if not what mode do you use, viewing distance, lighting condition while viewing?

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

What’s your screen size, display model number, calibrated or not, if not what mode do you use, viewing distance, lighting condition while viewing?

55 inches.
I was sat 8 feet back on this one.
C8 OLED.
Calibrated.
Lighting: Three lamps in a living room.

[Wendell R. Breland]

If people see artifacts in video means only one thing, they see the artifacts. If people can hear distortion in audio means only one thing, they can hear the distortion. I resent being refereed to as “picky or overly picky”.

Another example of streaming video artifact is the frame rate, it appears many devices can not pass the original (source) frame on to the display device. Since a large part of movie content is 23.976 fps and some devices will pass this frame rate, so 23.976 does not present a problem. Some can not and use 3:2 pull down.

I watch a fair amount of content that is 24 fps and it appears many devices can not pass 24 so it will stutter step every 42 seconds. I have tried to show this to people and most just do not see it. Now add in 25 fps and it can look like stop action animation, again many can not see this artifact.

Fortunately my Sony UBP-X1000 will pass the original frame to the VW600 projector and it will properly display 23.976, 24, 25, etc. The Nvidia Shield Pro 2019 can pass the original frame with the help of an app and fair amount of settings including putting it into programmers mode.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Most people don't care about sound. Most people listen through their TV speakers, a few more have soundbars and a very tiny amount have surround sound speakers. Even less have Atmos.

I'm not sure I could have told the difference either.

If a person can't tell mono from any type of surround sound they are either near deaf or impaired or both.

Most people don't care what most people care about; I know for a fact that I don't.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by SCLee

55 inches.
I was sat 8 feet back on this one.
C8 OLED.
Calibrated.
Lighting: Three lamps in a living room.

Prepare everything as you normally would for viewing except do not turn the TV on. Now look at the TV screen and note its darkness level. That is the level it will be at when viewing.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Just finished Lady and the Tramp on Disney+ (despite being nowhere near as good as the original) the picture quality was great. If they've lowered the bitrate it didn't show. Another crystal clear picture with excellent colours and contrast. Okay, if I'm being overly picky, there was slight haloing in fast motion (but it was barely noticeable.) Maybe bitrate is overrated? It was clearly in UHD with HDR.

I'm not trying to minimize your satisfaction with streaming, but neither should you try to minimize our dissatisfaction with it.

A trained ear hears things that others don't; a trained eye sees things that others don't, and still others without trained ears or eyes notice the differences, but how much they care will vary. No one can really tell you how much to care; we each decide that for ourselves.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

If people see artifacts in video means only one thing, they see the artifacts. If people can hear distortion in audio means only one thing, they can hear the distortion. I resent being refereed to as “picky or overly picky”.

[Show spoiler]Another example of streaming video artifact is the frame rate, it appears many devices can not pass the original (source) frame on to the display device. Since a large part of movie content is 23.976 fps and some devices will pass this frame rate, so 23.976 does not present a problem. Some can not and use 3:2 pull down.

I watch a fair amount of content that is 24 fps and it appears many devices can not pass 24 so it will stutter step every 42 seconds. I have tried to show this to people and most just do not see it. Now add in 25 fps and it can look like stop action animation, again many can not see this artifact.

Fortunately my Sony UBP-X1000 will pass the original frame to the VW600 projector and it will properly display 23.976, 24, 25, etc. The Nvidia Shield Pro 2019 can pass the original frame with the help of an app and fair amount of settings including putting it into programmers mode.

Before you know it, "overly picky" could become "anal retentive."

Some people care a lot about whether they see artifacts, or hear anomalies, and others shrug it off if they notice them at all. While I can not make them care more than they do, you can rest assured that none of them can lessen how much I care. I did not buy an 85" TV to enjoy life sized streaming artifacts.

[Wendell R. Breland]

@ sapiendut

Just curious, when you do an in home calibration of a video display device do you provide the customer a print out and/or PDF of the PQ Curve, Gray Scale Tracking, Color Tracking, et.?

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

@ sapiendut

Just curious, when you do an in home calibration of a video display device do you provide the customer a print out and/or PDF of the PQ Curve, Gray Scale Tracking, Color Tracking, et.?

I usually don’t. I only show it on the laptop and/or show after/before calibration demo with explanation what was changed. Basically like a mini seminar.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by SCLee

Most people don't care about sound. Most people listen through their TV speakers, a few more have soundbars and a very tiny amount have surround sound speakers. Even less have Atmos.

I'm not sure I could have told the difference either.

I am glad I am not “Most people.”

Curious if you think the same about people and video? Do you think most people care about having their tv dialed in correctly, or is it in torch mode and they think it is great. How many people are watching a standard definition signal and can’t tell the difference? How many actually have their tv calibrated by a professional?

Just because you are not someone who appreciates and seeks out good audio, do not discredit those of us that do.

George Lucas would always say that 50% of the moviegoing experience is sound. I am not a fan of every movie he had a hand in, but I 100% agree with that statement.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

If people see artifacts in video means only one thing, they see the artifacts. If people can hear distortion in audio means only one thing, they can hear the distortion. I resent being refereed to as “picky or overly picky”.

Another example of streaming video artifact is the frame rate, it appears many devices can not pass the original (source) frame on to the display device. Since a large part of movie content is 23.976 fps and some devices will pass this frame rate, so 23.976 does not present a problem. Some can not and use 3:2 pull down.

I watch a fair amount of content that is 24 fps and it appears many devices can not pass 24 so it will stutter step every 42 seconds. I have tried to show this to people and most just do not see it. Now add in 25 fps and it can look like stop action animation, again many can not see this artifact.

Fortunately my Sony UBP-X1000 will pass the original frame to the VW600 projector and it will properly display 23.976, 24, 25, etc. The Nvidia Shield Pro 2019 can pass the original frame with the help of an app and fair amount of settings including putting it into programmers mode.

You say you resent being called picky but then you say you've shown so and so to people and they cannot see what you're talking about.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I'm not trying to minimize your satisfaction with streaming, but neither should you try to minimize our dissatisfaction with it.

A trained ear hears things that others don't; a trained eye sees things that others don't, and still others without trained ears or eyes notice the differences, but how much they care will vary. No one can really tell you how much to care; we each decide that for ourselves.

I'm not telling you otherwise. I'm explaining my experience with the film. However it would be good if someone would explain where the artifacts, blocking, distortion (whatever) is supposed to be and then I can see if I agree with you or not.

[SCLee]

Originally Posted by gotmule

I am glad I am not “Most people.”

Curious if you think the same about people and video? Do you think most people care about having their tv dialed in correctly, or is it in torch mode and they think it is great. How many people are watching a standard definition signal and can’t tell the difference? How many actually have their tv calibrated by a professional?

Just because you are not someone who appreciates and seeks out good audio, do not discredit those of us that do.

George Lucas would always say that 50% of the moviegoing experience is sound. I am not a fan of every movie he had a hand in, but I 100% agree with that statement.

I'm not discrediting you. Anything I type is my opinion and should be taken that way. I'm only writing the truth and that is 99% of people don't care about this stuff or can't tell the difference. Of course there is a huge difference between SD and HD (that much is obvious) and there is a noticeable difference between HD and 4K, however streaming 4K and disc 4K on a 55 inch TV, not so much. Not to my eyes. But I still enjoy physical media because I grew up with it. If I hadn't and I was apart of the new generation I would likely stick to streaming as most of them do. But I could never justify watching something on a laptop or a phone. That's just weird

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

I'm not discrediting you. Anything I type is my opinion and should be taken that way. I'm only writing the truth and that is 99% of people don't care about this stuff or can't tell the difference. Of course there is a huge difference between SD and HD (that much is obvious) and there is a noticeable difference between HD and 4K, however streaming 4K and disc 4K on a 55 inch TV, not so much. Not to my eyes. But I still enjoy physical media because I grew up with it. If I hadn't and I was apart of the new generation I would likely stick to streaming as most of them do. But I could never justify watching something on a laptop or a phone. That's just weird

Please do not assign a number if you can not support it with a source. Fake statistcs are one of my pet peeves.

According to Statista.com as far back as 2016, 41% of households in the U.S. cared enough to have some kind of home theater surround sound system.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...d-penetration/

It is likely an even higher percentage now, but this is all that I could find with the 60 seconds of effort I was willing to spend looking.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by SCLee

I'm not telling you otherwise. I'm explaining my experience with the film. However it would be good if someone would explain where the artifacts, blocking, distortion (whatever) is supposed to be and then I can see if I agree with you or not.

Are you sure that you want to see them? Because once you do, you likely always will.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by SCLee

55 inches.
I was sat 8 feet back on this one.
C8 OLED.
Calibrated.
Lighting: Three lamps in a living room.

I have the LG C8 in my living room, (not HT just to be clear) it’s a very capable screen. I also feed it mostly Blu-ray, UHD and Sky Q (4K sport looks fabulous but I can see artefacts with Sky’s bit rates. The tv also upscales Blu-ray very capably.

You are going to see a fantastic picture with UHD disc on this tv.