Disney+'s - WandaVision (Season 1)

[trevrox]

Originally Posted by JayTL

I can, and I do.

Maybe that's how my brain works..where you consider something canon until it's officially not, I'm the other way around.

There is zero evidence or proof that the Defenders or Netflix shows took place in the MCU (using the MCU as a reference).

The Defenders series is like the Star Wars legends books- fun little side stories that have no bearing on the main story, and ultimately don't matter to any of the scheme of things.

It's fine if you think otherwise.

You are trying to change the definition of what canon is, though. There doesn't need to be any proof on screen that these shows exist in the same universe - crossover and canon are not interchangeable words. The proof that the shows are canon come from the makers.

The Defenders is not like Star Wars Legends novels because Legends has been officially decanonized by Disney/Lucasfilm. The Defenders has not. So actually you just gave a perfect example of when content can be removed from the canon. On the other hand, there are numerous Star Wars comics and novels that are not required to understand the films but are still canon. They need not be referenced in any way by the movies to remain canon.

[JayTL]

Originally Posted by trevrox

You are trying to change the definition of what canon is, though. There doesn't need to be any proof on screen that these shows exist in the same universe - crossover and canon are not interchangeable words. The proof that the shows are canon come from the makers.

The Defenders is not like Star Wars Legends novels because Legends has been officially decanonized by Disney/Lucasfilm. The Defenders has not. So actually you just gave a perfect example of when content can be removed from the canon. On the other hand, there are numerous Star Wars comics and novels that are not required to understand the films but are still canon. They need not be referenced in any way by the movies to remain canon.

Okay, but just to switch it, there's nothing in the MCU saying or showing that anything that happened on AOS, or the Netflix shows happened. I have links and quotes saying these shows are not canon and that the D+ are, you have older links and quotes regarding the Netflix/ABC shows. So in my mind, those shows are not canon.

I said Legends because at one point, people considered them canon. Whether they were or not is up to interpretation before the decanonization. Just like the topic on hand.

[donutbat]

I was thinking about Evan Peters' Quicksilver.

Days of Future Past takes place in the 70's, Apocalypse take place in the 80's, and Dark Phoenix in the 90's.
If Peter was 16 in DoFP, he's about 36 in Dark Phoenix, right?

The MCU is currently in 2023/24 (at least WandaVision). That would mean FoX-men Quicksilver is in his 60's!

Now if we follow the DoFP timeline that is being attacked by Sentinels, everyone is dead.
If we follow the new timeline that Wolverine created, Quicksilver is old.

As much as some people wanted Evan Peters to be the beginning of FoX-men/MCU crossover in WandaVision, logistically it just can't happen. Either Peter is dead or Evan is way too young to play a 60 year old.

If Evan were to play a multiverse Quicksilver, it will have to be from another universe, not the FoX-men universe.

[Guy87]

The Marvel shows were always supposed to be considered canon.

Shield was marketed as a canon continuation spinning out of Avengers and links to a bunch of movies directly. The same for Agent Carter, which spins into and out of Shield at points. Runaways shares the same Darkhold as Shield, Cloak & Dagger cameo in Runaways.

The Netflix shows less so, but they reference The Avengers, the Chitari invasion, Seagate Prison (from the Mandarin one-shot), Hammer tech, and the Absorbing Man from Shield fought Daredevil's Dad.

Somewhere along the way, not long after they were all cancelled (or toward the back end of shield), Marvel started doubling back on their canonicity now that Marvel Studios was starting a TV arm of it's own and no longer needed to advertise the other stuff.

Siiiiimple.

[Guy87]

Originally Posted by donutbat

I was thinking about Evan Peters' Quicksilver.

Days of Future Past takes place in the 70's, Apocalypse take place in the 80's, and Dark Phoenix in the 90's.
If Peter was 16 in DoFP, he's about 36 in Dark Phoenix, right?

The MCU is currently in 2023/24 (at least WandaVision). That would mean FoX-men Quicksilver is in his 60's!

Now if we follow the DoFP timeline that is being attacked by Sentinels, everyone is dead.
If we follow the new timeline that Wolverine created, Quicksilver is old.

As much as some people wanted Evan Peters to be the beginning of FoX-men/MCU crossover in WandaVision, logistically it just can't happen. Either Peter is dead or Evan is way too young to play a 60 year old.

If Evan were to play a multiverse Quicksilver, it will have to be from another universe, not the FoX-men universe.

Why does the Fox universe have to be portaled to in the same year as the MCU?

[BillieCassin]

Originally Posted by Guy87

Why does the Fox universe have to be portaled to in the same year as the MCU?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure any being who can pluck someone out of another dimension could probably do so at any point in the timeline they wished.

It may have been just an "in joke", and if so, it's really the only true missed opportunity in WV. I still have a feeling that there will be more to it.

I'm pretty convinced that Westview is actually New Salem, and that other occupants like Dottie are witches (there are just too many similarities between her and Arcana Jones, for example). Even if they don't have specific plans at this point, the seeds have been planted (literally). I just don't think this will be the last we see of any of them.

[donutbat]

Originally Posted by Guy87

Why does the Fox universe have to be portaled to in the same year as the MCU?

Parallel universes run parallel?
I would get it if the "old" cast were to crossover (Jackman, Stewart, Marsden, Janssen, etc).

[Guy87]

Originally Posted by donutbat

Parallel universes run parallel?
I would get it if the "old" cast were to crossover (Jackman, Stewart, Marsden, Janssen, etc).

Just because they're parallel doesn't mean they invented the calender at the same point.

2023 MCU could run parallel to a 1970's X-verse in a multiverse of infinite possibilities.

[Guy87]

...also it's comics, so..you know...magic lolz

[Guy87]

Originally Posted by BillieCassin

Yeah, I'm pretty sure any being who can pluck someone out of another dimension could probably do so at any point in the timeline they wished.

It may have been just an "in joke", and if so, it's really the only true missed opportunity in WV. I still have a feeling that there will be more to it.

I'm pretty convinced that Westview is actually New Salem, and that other occupants like Dottie are witches (there are just too many similarities between her and Arcana Jones, for example). Even if they don't have specific plans at this point, the seeds have been planted (literally). I just don't think this will be the last we see of any of them.

I think it was just testing the water for having Evans in as Pietro as he was more popular.

He can be mind wiped into being permanent Quicksilver if the MCU now want it.

[trevrox]

Originally Posted by JayTL

Okay, but just to switch it, there's nothing in the MCU saying or showing that anything that happened on AOS, or the Netflix shows happened. I have links and quotes saying these shows are not canon and that the D+ are, you have older links and quotes regarding the Netflix/ABC shows. So in my mind, those shows are not canon.

I said Legends because at one point, people considered them canon. Whether they were or not is up to interpretation before the decanonization. Just like the topic on hand.

Correct, there is nothing in the movies that reference anything from the shows. As I have said, the shows have always been irrelevant. But that's not what canon means, and it's not an opinion to be interpreted. The content creators say it is canon, there doesn't need to be any visual proof or crossover in the movies and shows themselves. That's not what canon means at all.

What recent quotes do you have from anyone where they say the shows were removed from canon? I'd love to see that.

I get where you are coming from, and I myself would love to see an official update on the canon from Marvel. But it's not at all up to fans to interpret or decide what is canon and it never has been. The shows remain canon until the time comes that they aren't, and that would require someone at Marvel or Disney actually telling us so.

[jayman3]

Haven’t kept up with this thread, though it looks like we missed an entire sequence that was cut from the finale.

There was an ongoing subplot that involved Monica Rambeau, the twins, Ralph, and Darcy trying to steal the Darkhold from Agatha’s basement. Where Señor Scratchy the rabbit was revealed to be a demon.

It was all filmed and set, but the finale was finished two weeks before it aired, and so the VFX couldn’t have been completed otherwise it would have been delayed.

So that explains why there was very little Monica, Darcy, and Ralph.

[kevin87]

Originally Posted by jayman3

Haven’t kept up with this thread, though it looks like we missed an entire sequence that was cut from the finale.

There was an ongoing subplot that involved Monica Rambeau, the twins, Ralph, and Darcy trying to steal the Darkhold from Agatha’s basement. Where Señor Scratchy the rabbit was revealed to be a demon.

It was all filmed and set, but the finale was finished two weeks before it aired, and so the VFX couldn’t have been completed otherwise it would have been delayed.

So that explains why there was very little Monica, Darcy, and Ralph.

If only they'd have not released 2 the first week then.

[jayman3]

Originally Posted by kevin87

If only they'd have not released 2 the first week then.

It was originally a 10 episode order and the first three were going to be released on the premiere date.

It isn’t anything new/surprising. This happened with TWDs finale which actually got delayed. But that was mostly due to covid shutdown. I wouldn’t have minded a week or two waiting for the finale to be polished up.

[spanky87]

What is the MCU, if not climactic laser beam battles persevering?

[jeangreyforever]

Originally Posted by CyberpunkCentral

X-Men Cameo Scene - Wade Hugs Colossus | Deadpool 2 (2018) Movie CLIP 4K - YouTube

The fact that Colossus in both Deadpools does not add up with the Colossus we see in the original movies, and who we saw again in Days of Future Past (which also clearly established that Daniel Cudmore's Colossus could not be from the same generation as the First Class mutants in the past) just proves my case. The First Class movies themselves were supposed to be a reboot of the X-Men after Origins: Wolverine failed, but First Class's soft box office performance meant that we got DOFP which tried to bring back the original cast into canon. Not that the X-Men movies were ever good about sticking to continuity, even in-between movies.

[jeangreyforever]

Originally Posted by donutbat

I was thinking about Evan Peters' Quicksilver.

Days of Future Past takes place in the 70's, Apocalypse take place in the 80's, and Dark Phoenix in the 90's.
If Peter was 16 in DoFP, he's about 36 in Dark Phoenix, right?

The MCU is currently in 2023/24 (at least WandaVision). That would mean FoX-men Quicksilver is in his 60's!

Now if we follow the DoFP timeline that is being attacked by Sentinels, everyone is dead.
If we follow the new timeline that Wolverine created, Quicksilver is old.

As much as some people wanted Evan Peters to be the beginning of FoX-men/MCU crossover in WandaVision, logistically it just can't happen. Either Peter is dead or Evan is way too young to play a 60 year old.

If Evan were to play a multiverse Quicksilver, it will have to be from another universe, not the FoX-men universe.

You're putting more thought into this than the X-Men movie creators ever did. Xavier and Magneto in Dark Phoenix should have looked more like the Xavier and Magneto in the first X-Men movie, but they barely look a day older than they did in First Class, set in the 60s, even though that was at least 30 years before.

[JayTL]

Originally Posted by trevrox

Correct, there is nothing in the movies that reference anything from the shows. As I have said, the shows have always been irrelevant. But that's not what canon means, and it's not an opinion to be interpreted. The content creators say it is canon, there doesn't need to be any visual proof or crossover in the movies and shows themselves. That's not what canon means at all.

What recent quotes do you have from anyone where they say the shows were removed from canon? I'd love to see that.

I get where you are coming from, and I myself would love to see an official update on the canon from Marvel. But it's not at all up to fans to interpret or decide what is canon and it never has been. The shows remain canon until the time comes that they aren't, and that would require someone at Marvel or Disney actually telling us so.

I was just going off the quote I posted before, but that doesn't actually de-cannonize anything, just says that the D+ shows are a part of the canon.
We're just kinda going back and forth, so I'll leave. My parting thing is this: This isn't like some people saying "I don't like the ST, so it's not a part of the canon", this is me saying "if I don't watch this, I don't miss anything in the main story (MCU)". The AoS not referencing the Snap but referencing Thanos is really weird and puts it not in the canon

[CyberpunkCentral]

Originally Posted by trevrox

I did not say that anything under Disney is part of the MCU. I said that Disney DICTATES what is and isn't canon.

No Kevin Feige does.

[mwynn]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...223114694.html

'WandaVision' secrets revealed: The missing Doctor Strange cameo, a goofy 'Growing Pains' reference and the 'Contact' connection

To be fair, the show’s creative team did warn viewers about getting too invested in those fan-generated predictions of things to come. “It can’t be everything to everybody, and we can’t introduce every possible character that people speculated about,” Matt Shakman, who directed all nine episodes, tells Yahoo Entertainment. “We were ultimately telling a very simple story about how we deal with grief and come to terms with loss.”