Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

If you have backups of all your downloaded files with the DRM removed then what's the advantage over physical media? You can just as easily remove DRM from Blu-ray discs and have those files in the same convenient places that you put your downloaded files.

All of my physical media is replaceable. My backups are the thousands of other people who still own working copies. But if a digital-only title is removed then no one can get a copy.

It's not my collection I'm concerned about. Everyone should continue to have access to every title. The used market ensures this happens with physical media. But digital media has no equivalent to a used market, if a title is no longer offered by the content owners then it becomes unavailable to everyone.

It's nice to have a big Collection, but there are very few Movies you want to keep watching over and over. Your Collection of Movies is in the thousands, it would take you years to watch everyone again. Time goes on, and formats get old, I want to watch my Movies in the latest formats. So even though Physical will be around a long time, do you really think you will want to watch everyone of your old Movies in the Old Blu-ray format years from now?

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

If you have backups of all your downloaded files with the DRM removed then what's the advantage over physical media?

Not needing shelves full of discs. Not having to sit through unskippable trailers and "FBI warnings". Being able to easily track which TV episodes I have watched. Being able to easily load my iPad with interesting content when traveling.

You can just as easily remove DRM from Blu-ray discs and have those files in the same convenient places that you put your downloaded files.

Ripping a BD takes about an hour, and you have to play disc jockey. Ripping the hundreds of discs I own would take months. Stripping the DRM from an iTunes file takes minutes, and can easily be done in batches overnight.

All of my physical media is replaceable. My backups are the thousands of other people who still own working copies. But if a digital-only title is removed then no one can get a copy.

How often does that really happen?

Personally, I can count the number of OOP discs I bought used on one hand. On the other hand, I have probably dozens of movies and TV episodes that are simply not available on BD ...

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

It's nice to have a big Collection, but there are very few Movies you want to keep watching over and over. Your Collection of Movies is in the thousands, it would take you years to watch everyone again. Time goes on, and formats get old, I want to watch my Movies in the latest formats. So even though Physical will be around a long time, do you really think you will want to watch everyone of your old Movies in the Old Blu-ray format years from now?

If everything continued to come out on the latest format all of this would be a moot point. I'm sure I'll be watching hundreds of movies and TV shows on Blu-ray for the rest of my life because they'll never be available on a later format. I still watch plenty of titles on DVD because they never made it to Blu-ray.

Will I want to watch every one of my movies years from now? Absolutely not. But I can be sure that the ones I do want to watch will all be available. I can also sell or give away the ones I know I don't want to watch and other people will be able to enjoy them.

With digital you have no idea which movies will be available in the future. You probably won't care about most of the stuff that gets removed, but you'll have absolutely no right to complain if something you do care about is removed.

[Mr Kite]

Alchav this is my last post here. You fail at every attempt to understand the importance of Physical media. I have mentioned many times the independent distributors, the likes of Arrow, Synapse etc who undertake many hours of research and time to bring us many obscure and not so obscure classics at the best possible quality, you fail again to understand that companies the likes of Itunes, Vudu etc could not give a flying fig about PQ and restoration etc, and will put out what they are given in a compression and PQ/AQ they feel the masses will be happy with, at as low a cost as possible, in much the same way as we have seen the demise of PDP tech in favour of LCD, simply because something is bright and shiny and thin.
You embrace this tech but have no knowlege as to what it entails and what might be lost, simply because you want the latest Avengers movie straight to your TV.

[rui no onna]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Not needing shelves full of discs. Not having to sit through unskippable trailers and "FBI warnings". Being able to easily track which TV episodes I have watched. Being able to easily load my iPad with interesting content when traveling.

Ripping a BD takes about an hour, and you have to play disc jockey. Ripping the hundreds of discs I own would take months. Stripping the DRM from an iTunes file takes minutes, and can easily be done in batches overnight.

How often does that really happen?

More like 30 minutes per disc with a $30 Blu-ray drive. Initial ripping would take a while if you already have a collection built up but after that, I reckon ripping discs as you buy them is pretty easy. Yeah, the disc jockey thing is annoying. I have several seasons worth of TV box sets I still need to rip. Considering a Nimbie AutoLoader to speed things up.

And yeah, I skip all those warnings, too, and have everything all organized via Plex.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by rui no onna

More like 30 minutes per disc with a $30 Blu-ray drive.

Can you recommend one? The problem is that almost all drives are riplocked these days ...

Initial ripping would take a while if you already have a collection built up but after that, I reckon ripping discs as you buy them is pretty easy. Yeah, the disc jockey thing is annoying. I have several seasons worth of TV box sets I still need to rip. Considering a Nimbie AutoLoader to speed things up.

Ripping TV shows is one of the most annoying things. It's not only the ripping itself, but afterwards you have to identify and tag the episodes, since the titles on disc are often not in the same order as the episodes. I'm currently going through this process for a 5-season British show that is only available on region B discs and the region-b player I brought over from Europe recently stopped working. If that show had been available on iTunes, it would have been no work at all. I'd be glad to pay for it again just to spare myself this stupid work.

[neoz]

Originally Posted by Canada

Physical media always, it's nice to have a digital copy but that is always secondary for me.

Yep ditto for me. Digital is mainly for the convenience. Sometimes I don't want to get up so just watch my redeemed DC on Vudu on my XB1. Other then that I would never go fully digital.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by tele1962

Alchav this is my last post here. You fail at every attempt to understand the importance of Physical media. I have mentioned many times the independent distributors, the likes of Arrow, Synapse etc who undertake many hours of research and time to bring us many obscure and not so obscure classics at the best possible quality, you fail again to understand that companies the likes of Itunes, Vudu etc could not give a flying fig about PQ and restoration etc, and will put out what they are given in a compression and PQ/AQ they feel the masses will be happy with, at as low a cost as possible, in much the same way as we have seen the demise of PDP tech in favour of LCD, simply because something is bright and shiny and thin.
You embrace this tech but have no knowlege as to what it entails and what might be lost, simply because you want the latest Avengers movie straight to your TV.

I'm not totally against Physical I still have a large Collection of Blu-rays and DVD's, but I do defend Digital HD because it's getting better all the time and predict it will be equal to Physical. I know we all like to hold on to old technology, and feel in some ways it's better than the new. I'm sure these Independent Restoration Companies will still remain if the Market remains. In order for Digital Streaming to be successful it has to get better, PQ/AQ has to keep increasing. Now I differentiate Digital Streaming from Downloads, because the Provider can control Streaming. Also Storage and Server location are inexpensive and easy to set up just about anywhere, like Co-Located with ISP's or with Direct Trunking. Technology changes fast, just like now Plasma=OLED and LED>LCD.

[moviefan84]

I don't know if digital media will ever be equal (at least in my eyes) to physical media. It's nice to have an actual copy rather than a leased copy.

[master gandhi]

Digital has already come a long way since it was first introduced, so I have no doubt that it'll keep improving in quality. It took me a while to really get on board. I imagine it'll still be quite a while longer before many physical media enthusiasts are compelled to adopt it too.

Judging by this thread, it's going to take a lot more convincing, if digital is going to ever take over completely. People like their discs. Except many people have moved past discs. Admittedly, most of those disc-droppers have turned to subscriptions like Netflix instead of buying from places like VUDU and iTunes.

I definitely don't want subscriptions to take over both physical and digital purchases. I hate the idea of relying on your subscription to have what you feel like watching. Of course, I doubt they'd ever do away with rentals or purchases in favor of subscriptions. That would be like the studios saying they don't want to make money anymore. That'll never happen.

Music, television and movies will probably always be available to purchase in good quality. That's all that matters to me.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

I definitely don't want subscriptions to take over both physical and digital purchases. I hate the idea of relying on your subscription to have what you feel like watching. Of course, I doubt they'd ever do away with rentals or purchases in favor of subscriptions. That would be like the studios saying they don't want to make money anymore. That'll never happen.

For that same reason I doubt the studios will ever drop physical media. Most people who have switched to digital have done so primarily because it's cheap. The studios haven't been able to convince many people to buy individual movies for $10-$20 each with digital like they frequently do with physical media.

Regardless of what percentage of people have switched to digital, most of the big spenders are still buying physical media.

[randian]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

The studios haven't been able to convince many people to buy individual movies for $10-$20 each with digital like they frequently do with physical media.

That doesn't stop them from pricing it like physical media. I'd buy a lot more digital if it was priced at $4.99 (the usual sale price I wait for), or $9.99 for a TV season. Unfortunately a lot of what's on my wishlist has never been close to that, or in some cases has never been on sale at all, like they've been forgotten by the studio.

Another problem is the studio propensity for putting only one season (usually the first) of a TV series on sale. I would be interested in the whole series at a good price, but I'm not interested in buying just S1 and getting stuck.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by randian

That doesn't stop them from pricing it like physical media. I'd buy a lot more digital if it was priced at $4.99 (the usual sale price I wait for), or $9.99 for a TV season. Unfortunately a lot of what's on my wishlist has never been close to that, or in some cases has never been on sale at all, like they've been forgotten by the studio.

Another problem is the studio propensity for putting only one season (usually the first) of a TV series on sale. I would be interested in the whole series at a good price, but I'm not interested in buying just S1 and getting stuck.

If the studios have to price everything lower in order to get people to buy digital instead of physical then they'll make lower profits overall, what's their incentive to do that?

[randian]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

If the studios have to price everything lower in order to get people to buy digital instead of physical then they'll make lower profits overall, what's their incentive to do that?

Lower than what? It doesn't get lower than zero, which is what they're getting from me at regular prices. Perhaps they have data saying that having a few customers willing to pay inflated (in my opinion) regular prices is more profitable than having a lot of customers paying lower prices, I don't know. Note that I'm primarily talking about catalog titles, not new releases.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by randian

Lower than what? It doesn't get lower than zero, which is what they're getting from me at regular prices. Perhaps they have data saying that having a few customers willing to pay inflated (in my opinion) regular prices is more profitable than having a lot of customers paying lower prices, I don't know. Note that I'm primarily talking about catalog titles, not new releases.

My point is that there are plenty of people buying physical releases at $10-$20, but not many buying digital titles at those prices. If they dropped digital to $5 each they'd get a lot of people switching to digital and buying more titles but they would lose a lot of the $10-$20 physical sales they're getting now. It would be less profit overall. The studios want people to buy digital instead of physical, but they want them to pay the same amount... I don't think that's likely to happen.

It's possible that they may get a lot more sales if they drop prices but it's a big risk. If they drop the price by half then they would have to double their sales to make the same profit. If they don't get the sales they want they can't just raise the prices back up: if people get used to paying a lower price most won't be willing to pay a higher price.

[squatting hen]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

My point is that there are plenty of people buying physical releases at $10-$20, but not many buying digital titles at those prices. If they dropped digital to $5 each they'd get a lot of people switching to digital and buying more titles but they would lose a lot of the $10-$20 physical sales they're getting now. It would be less profit overall. The studios want people to buy digital instead of physical, but they want them to pay the same amount... I don't think that's likely to happen.

It's possible that they may get a lot more sales if they drop prices but it's a big risk. If they drop the price by half then they would have to double their sales to make the same profit. If they don't get the sales they want they can't just raise the prices back up: if people get used to paying a lower price most won't be willing to pay a higher price.

I have gone digital due to codes, credits and D2D being available. If those were (and one day I am sure they will be) taken away, I would be subscription based. I no longer pay $10-$20 to own a movie, and never will again. I would however start to and continue to purchase digital titles if they were $5. I don't see that happening though because most rentals cost more than that. Would be nice though.

Once I realized that I rarely watch something more than once, I don't see the point in paying $10-$20 for it. I have 100's of movies and shows in my backlog, that I don't have time to watch, so watching something I have already seen isn't going to happen.

I thought it was cool years ago to have my collection, but when I thought about what I was spending just to add it to a shelf, to me, it wasn't worth it. Many of my titles that I bought were never even watched. I had DVD, HD-DVD, and blu-rays, so I was buying them all.

I just don't have the time to watch everything that is available, and my financial responsibilities have changed over the years. In the end, I really don't care about owning anymore.... Digital works just fine for my needs, and honestly, I prefer it over physical. It is extremely convenient.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by squatting hen

I have gone digital due to codes, credits and D2D being available. If those were (and one day I am sure they will be) taken away, I would be subscription based. I no longer pay $10-$20 to own a movie, and never will again. I would however start to and continue to purchase digital titles if they were $5. I don't see that happening though because most rentals cost more than that. Would be nice though.

Once I realized that I rarely watch something more than once, I don't see the point in paying $10-$20 for it. I have 100's of movies and shows in my backlog, that I don't have time to watch, so watching something I have already seen isn't going to happen.

I thought it was cool years ago to have my collection, but when I thought about what I was spending just to add it to a shelf, to me, it wasn't worth it. Many of my titles that I bought were never even watched. I had DVD, HD-DVD, and blu-rays, so I was buying them all.

I just don't have the time to watch everything that is available, and my financial responsibilities have changed over the years. In the end, I really don't care about owning anymore.... Digital works just fine for my needs, and honestly, I prefer it over physical. It is extremely convenient.

I'm sure many share your views but that isn't what the studios want. When people say they love digital and use price as a major reason why... they aren't really supporting digital. That view is bad for business, those customers are spending a lot less on digital then they used to on physical.

In order to keep profits high the studios have to cater to customers who are willing to spend a lot of money and the vast majority of them are still buying physical.

[squatting hen]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I'm sure many share your views but that isn't what the studios want. When people say they love digital and use price as a major reason why... they aren't really supporting digital. That view is bad for business, those customers are spending a lot less on digital then they used to on physical.

In order to keep profits high the studios have to cater to customers who are willing to spend a lot of money and the vast majority of them are still buying physical.

I realize that isn't what the studios want, they want to make as much money as possible. I just threw out there that I used to be a physical purchaser, and moved to digital due to the price. Now, they aren't making anything (or maybe they do if a code is redeemed?) off me, but if the codes went away, then I wouldn't buy them either.

The team/department I work with consists of about 10 people, and none of them purchase physical media. The age range is 28-65. They all, except one, have Netflix. Just about all of them don't have land lines any longer either. People are simply satisfied with streaming.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by squatting hen

The team/department I work with consists of about 10 people, and none of them purchase physical media. The age range is 28-65. They all, except one, have Netflix. Just about all of them don't have land lines any longer either. People are simply satisfied with streaming.

It's examples like this that make many people say that physical media is dead. But it doesn't matter how many people are buying physical versus digital what matters is the amount of money spent. At this point way more people are buying digital but the amount of money spent is close to even. That's why physical media isn't going away anytime soon.

[Cranston37]

Originally Posted by squatting hen

The team/department I work with consists of about 10 people, and none of them purchase physical media. The age range is 28-65. They all, except one, have Netflix. Just about all of them don't have land lines any longer either. People are simply satisfied with streaming.

The problem with that is you could also ask them how many purchase, say, snowmobiles, and while all of them probably will say no that doesn't mean there isn't a healthy profit to be made selling snowmobiles.

Physical media took in $5 billion+ in revenue last year, about the same as the NBA. In this age of everyone streaming, it is still a robust business.