Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Never used VUDU for that but since it has been sold to FandangoNow I would not be surprised to anything that happens to them. They went from a fairly well consumer rated enterprise (Walmart) to one of the worst (Comcast).

Yes Comcast is like AT&T trying to do everything to compete with streaming competition. But they done better then AT&T. See AT&T tried to buy out the streaming wars — and customers are paying for it.

Moffett said AT&T’s problems are compounded by the fact that the company has a large number of programming contracts set to expire this year. The new contracts will drive up AT&T’s costs, which in turn will be passed on to consumers, accelerating its existing cord cutting worries.

AT&T had originally hoped that the huge influx of subscribers acquired from DirecTV would provide the company greater leverage in negotiations with programmers. Similarly, it hoped that acquiring Time Warner and HBO gave the company access to top-shelf original programming that could help it do battle against deep-pocketed competitors like Apple and Amazon.

But many on Wall Street (including some of AT&T’s own shareholders) felt that acquiring a traditional satellite TV company on the eve of the cord cutting revolution never entirely made sense. Neither did driving up the company’s debt load — then shoveling those costs onto the back of consumers already pissed off by the endless price hikes and abysmal customer service for which the pay TV sector is notorious.

As much as Comcast buys things nobody does it worse then AT&T. I remember right after they bought HBO they were suggesting major changes making HBO content be geared for shorter episodes so phone users could not suffer watching long episodes on smartphones. Nobody else was that dumb for management. But Comcast even if they shaft their customers seems to like producing entertainment that is attractive comparably.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Yes Comcast is like AT&T trying to do everything to compete with streaming competition. But they done better then AT&T. See AT&T tried to buy out the streaming wars — and customers are paying for it.

As much as Comcast buys things nobody does it worse then AT&T. I remember right after they bought HBO they were suggesting major changes making HBO content be geared for shorter episodes so phone users could not suffer watching long episodes on smartphones. Nobody else that was that dumb for management. But Comcast even if they shaft their customers seems to like producing entertainment that is attractive comparably.

Now you've done it!

You have dredged up one of the deepest fears of one of our own.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Yes Comcast is like AT&T trying to do everything to compete with streaming competition. But they done better then AT&T. See AT&T tried to buy out the streaming wars — and customers are paying for it.

As much as Comcast buys things nobody does it worse then AT&T. I remember right after they bought HBO they were suggesting major changes making HBO content be geared for shorter episodes so phone users could not suffer watching long episodes on smartphones. Nobody else that was that dumb for management. But Comcast even if they shaft their customers seems to like producing entertainment that is attractive comparably.

Yeah, they have been making those sort of noises for a while now. Their CEO apparently sees mobile as the future of entertainment.

Makes me want to vomit to be honest.

Thankfully, so far the billion dollar backed Quibi short form subscription service has been a big fat flop, so hopefully AT&T will be taking note of that and making changes to their future plans.
It would honestly feel like abuse of film if that’s the way youngsters and 18-40 year olds are watching all content 10-15 years from now.

AT&T could roll Facebook, TikTok and Snapchat content into their HBO Max service as ‘bonus’ content in the future. I have read this suggestion a number of times. The start of a downward spiral imo.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Dumb or Smart you have to be realistic, Studios or Independent Distributors will not sell Discs if the market is not there. There are set Profit Margins that these Companies set up, and if the numbers are not coming in the manufacturing will terminate.

I never heard anyone claim dumb people are realistic. Is that the basis for your protracted support of streaming, instead of recognizing that lots of different forms of entertainment exist and will continue to do so in spite of your streaming fantasies.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Now you've done it!

You have dredged up one of the deepest fears of one of our own.

Release the Kraken!

[Phillip c. Niethe]

I feel physical would fare better if there were less available options, in that I mean that most people are going to go the cheapest route and stream (which I hate) so they need to only sell 4K HD televisions, sell a Blu-ray and 4K player, drop DVD all together BUT offer all Blu-rays at a slightly lower price as both DVD and Blu are nearly the same price to manufacture and Blu is superior so why not upgrade everyone instead of creating a viewership cast system where people who do not have as much cash to spend are stuck watching at lower image quality. The 4k can be separate for say 5ish years, then when production costs are significantly cheaper just make 4k players and Televisions that are backward compatable and lower disc price and make all discs 4K at that point.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Their CEO apparently sees mobile as the future of entertainment.

He will be gone come June 1st, story here.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Wendell, Vilya, I watched San Andreas 3D last night. Superb FX and 3D displayed very decent depth.

Watched as a BD rental and passed. May add it to the collection because of the 3-D and the 3-D version has Dolby Atmos.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

He will be gone come June 1st, story here.

That guy still believes mobile is the future of media. It was quoted in a article from The Verge I believe.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Watched as a BD rental and passed. May add it to the collection because of the 3-D and the 3-D version has Dolby Atmos.

Been a while since I watched a big, dumb blockbuster, must have just grabbed me. I stick by my 4/5. I liked it.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by spider-neil

The same could be argued about a fire consuming an entire movie collection in one hit or a house being burgled. Sure, insurance may give you a large chunk of money to buy most of the movies but I have a number of movies in my collection that are irreplaceable.

Pros and cons for both sides.

I buy physical media and I stream. What happens down the line, happens.

the issues are

1) risk: not going to cover it all here, but to put it simply, my house has never burned down and my house has never been robbed (also if it were to be robbed will the robber take the time to fill up many garbage bags of films and make all those trips back and forth to his vehicle for something that can barely be given away or is he more likely to go after some jewelry or art or electronics) on the other hand no company, service or contract has ever gone on for ever and there are a few digital movie companies or services that have disappeared and there are many other cases where the films disappeared from personal libraries for contractual reasons.

2) control: None of us have any say on what the video service decides to do. Did Walmart ask you before they sold Vudu? on the other hand we all have a lot of direct or indirect control over our physical movie collections and what can happen with them. I lock my windows and doors when I leave, my home is attached to an alarm company, my BD and UHD-BD are on my shelves while older formats are in storage bins in the storage room, like I said in #1 many thousands of films makes it more difficult for a robber to decide to deal with it. My HT and games/concession room (where my shelves with films are located) has two layers of rockwool insulation in the wall s and ceiling it is there for sound proofing but the product is also fire proof. my ceiling in those rooms have two layers of fire resistant drywall (two for soundproofing, fire resistant by code) the walls have two layers of mold resistant drywall which also fire retardant. Unless a fire magically starts on my films they will probably be the last thing to burn and the rest of the house would need to be nothing but ashes long before them.

3)scope: like Wendell said when a provider closes all the films for everyone that uses that provider are lost, if films are pulled in a given country all the people that bought those films from that provider in that country lose their copies. On the other hand only the unlucky person that gets robbed or his house burns down will get affected by your scenario.

4) reality of situation: You get robbed, your house burns down, is the first thing on your mind "must sit down and watch a film" followed by dang my collection is done". There is probably a lot of paperwork to do, there is a lot of shopping to do.... to get your life back in order. On t6he other hand you sit down, click on the icon for your film service and you get "sorry sucker, we took your money when you bought these films but now you can't watch them" what is your reaction?

[JB24]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

the issues are

1) risk: not going to cover it all here, but to put it simply, my house has never burned down and my house has never been robbed (also if it were to be robbed will the robber take the time to fill up many garbage bags of films and make all those trips back and forth to his vehicle for something that can barely be given away or is he more likely to go after some jewelry or art or electronics) on the other hand no company, service or contract has ever gone on for ever and there are a few digital movie companies or services that have disappeared and there are many other cases where the films disappeared from personal libraries for contractual reasons.

2) control: None of us have any say on what the video service decides to do. Did Walmart ask you before they sold Vudu? on the other hand we all have a lot of direct or indirect control over our physical movie collections and what can happen with them. I lock my windows and doors when I leave, my home is attached to an alarm company, my BD and UHD-BD are on my shelves while older formats are in storage bins in the storage room, like I said in #1 many thousands of films makes it more difficult for a robber to decide to deal with it. My HT and games/concession room (where my shelves with films are located) has two layers of rockwool insulation in the wall s and ceiling it is there for sound proofing but the product is also fire proof. my ceiling in those rooms have two layers of fire resistant drywall (two for soundproofing, fire resistant by code) the walls have two layers of mold resistant drywall which also fire retardant. Unless a fire magically starts on my films they will probably be the last thing to burn and the rest of the house would need to be nothing but ashes long before them.

3)scope: like Wendell said when a provider closes all the films for everyone that uses that provider are lost, if films are pulled in a given country all the people that bought those films from that provider in that country lose their copies. On the other hand only the unlucky person that gets robbed or his house burns down will get affected by your scenario.

4) reality of situation: You get robbed, your house burns down, is the first thing on your mind "must sit down and watch a film" followed by dang my collection is done". There is probably a lot of paperwork to do, there is a lot of shopping to do.... to get your life back in order. On the other hand you sit down, click on the icon for your film service and you get "sorry sucker, we took your money when you bought these films but now you can't watch them" what is your reaction?

You make a great point about risk. Nothing in this world is 100% certain. But in my opinion, there is a higher risk (or probability) that a streaming service will remove a certain movie from its catalog than for that same movie on physical media to be stolen from someone's home for the reason you mentioned.

I am also a big fan of special features so that is another advantage of physical media compared to streaming for me. I love to learn more about the movies I enjoy watching. That's why I love to buy Criterion releases when they are available.

[flyry]

I've realized I prefer older movies on disc.

during quarantine have picked up:

Disc:

The Original Star Wars Trilogy
Harakiri(Criterion)
Yojimbo(Criterion)
The Mask of Zorro 4K.
Django (Arrow)-pre-ordered.

Digital:
The Taking of Pelham One Two Three(sale)
The Witch:Subversion (sale)
The Right Stuff (m2d)
Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring(m2d)
Bad Boys for Life
The Way Back (gift card)
Ready or Not (sale)
Gaslight
The Stranger(sale)
Iron Monkey(m2d)
Under the Silver Lake (sale)
Uncut Gems
The Invisible Man

Was going to pick up 3 more Criterion discs, but will wait until the July Sale

[Vilya]

I added my digital collection to my wall of numbers beneath my Avatar; it is missing two titles that I can not find in the digital database. How to add titles to the digital database is not clear to me like it is with the disc database.

I have not entered all of my disc codes quite yet, but I am chipping away at it; it is a tedious thing to do.

I allow some of my friends access to my digital library, and thus the reason why I finally made it a point to redeem many of my codes. They especially enjoy this access while they stay at home as much as possible.

Another little inventory project is (mostly) complete.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

I've realized I prefer older movies on disc.

during quarantine have picked up:

[Show spoiler]Disc:

The Original Star Wars Trilogy
Harakiri(Criterion)
Yojimbo(Criterion)
The Mask of Zorro 4K.
Django (Arrow)-pre-ordered.

Digital:
The Taking of Pelham One Two Three(sale)
The Witch:Subversion (sale)
The Right Stuff (m2d)
Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... and Spring(m2d)
Bad Boys for Life
The Way Back (gift card)
Ready or Not (sale)
Gaslight
The Stranger(sale)
Iron Monkey(m2d)
Under the Silver Lake (sale)
Uncut Gems
The Invisible Man

Was going to pick up 3 more Criterion discs, but will wait until the July Sale

I am expecting 28 discs to arrive tomorrow with 18 more on order awaiting shipment.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I am expecting 28 discs to arrive tomorrow with 18 more on order awaiting shipment.

I seem to remember a time not too long ago when you had equal number Blu-ray and dvd. So much for that.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by gotmule

I seem to remember a time not too long ago when you had equal number Blu-ray and dvd. So much for that.

It was inevitable that my blu-rays would overtake my DVDs. I still buy DVDs when that is my only option; doing so almost guarantees that a blu-ray release will follow shortly after.

How did your big Trinnov audition go? Wuz you impressed? Did you buy anything?

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Vilya

It was inevitable that my blu-rays would overtake my DVDs. I still buy DVDs when that is my only option; doing so almost guarantees that a blu-ray release will follow shortly after.

How did your big Trinnov audition go? Wuz you impressed? Did you buy anything?

I didn’t buy anything yet as I am still researching the Storm Audio ISP, and want to be very comfortable with a purchase in this price range.

The audition was impressive, but I was not blown away by the experience. The room was a $300,000 room, so any time you get to hang out in something like that for a few hours, well that’s a good day. The challenge is that the room is tailored to be a showroom as well as a flagship video presentation, and I was there for audio purposes. There was a 200” Stewart masking system screen connected to the flagship Sony projector, which was pretty damn cool to see. As a result of the screen taking up most of the front wall, speaker placement was compromised. For example, the width speakers were 6” away from the mains, so things got kind of messy there. They had an even number of seats, so you weren’t in the sweet spot, even though they calibrated the Trinnov to a spot where there was no seat. There were a couple of other challenges with surround and height placement where they had to make allowances based on the room, so it was not an ideal setup for audio. The owner disclosed this before I was even in the room. The system was though incredibly dynamic and clear, with a ton of headroom, but I could not get a consistent feel how the processor was steering information to match what was happening on the screen.

I went there with a few discs in hand to see how it handled upmixing, as I have not heard DTS X Pro yet, so I purposely grabbed legacy 5.1 content. When we got to the room, we checked out about an hour of Atmos and DTS X content, so finally had to stop him and remind him that I wanted to hear what it does with a 5.1 disc.

Part of the process was to get a feel for the owner as an integrator as the Trinnov’s performance is totally dependent on the person setting it up, as there are some complicated adjustments and tweaking. He was a super nice guy, but I walked away knowing I would need to spend the additional $750 for the microphone to do it myself even though I know I will need help along the way...which Trinnov provides as they can dial into your unit to see what is going on. I know I am not the usual customer walking in there, as I am hyper critical of audio, so had a feeling walking into the room that I was not going to hear the Trinnov at its best. I know it will make my room better, but I am not ready to pull the trigger.

The hang up is that i can’t hear the Storm Audio, as there is not a place in town that has it on display since it was just released.

Still a lot of fun to scratch this itch though.

[Admiral]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

the issues are

1) risk: not going to cover it all here, but to put it simply, my house has never burned down and my house has never been robbed (also if it were to be robbed will the robber take the time to fill up many garbage bags of films and make all those trips back and forth to his vehicle for something that can barely be given away or is he more likely to go after some jewelry or art or electronics) on the other hand no company, service or contract has ever gone on for ever and there are a few digital movie companies or services that have disappeared and there are many other cases where the films disappeared from personal libraries for contractual reasons.

2) control: None of us have any say on what the video service decides to do. Did Walmart ask you before they sold Vudu? on the other hand we all have a lot of direct or indirect control over our physical movie collections and what can happen with them. I lock my windows and doors when I leave, my home is attached to an alarm company, my BD and UHD-BD are on my shelves while older formats are in storage bins in the storage room, like I said in #1 many thousands of films makes it more difficult for a robber to decide to deal with it. My HT and games/concession room (where my shelves with films are located) has two layers of rockwool insulation in the wall s and ceiling it is there for sound proofing but the product is also fire proof. my ceiling in those rooms have two layers of fire resistant drywall (two for soundproofing, fire resistant by code) the walls have two layers of mold resistant drywall which also fire retardant. Unless a fire magically starts on my films they will probably be the last thing to burn and the rest of the house would need to be nothing but ashes long before them.

3)scope: like Wendell said when a provider closes all the films for everyone that uses that provider are lost, if films are pulled in a given country all the people that bought those films from that provider in that country lose their copies. On the other hand only the unlucky person that gets robbed or his house burns down will get affected by your scenario.

4) reality of situation: You get robbed, your house burns down, is the first thing on your mind "must sit down and watch a film" followed by dang my collection is done". There is probably a lot of paperwork to do, there is a lot of shopping to do.... to get your life back in order. On t6he other hand you sit down, click on the icon for your film service and you get "sorry sucker, we took your money when you bought these films but now you can't watch them" what is your reaction?

You are basically making the same point in 1-4. This argument assumes that all digital providers are equal, which is not the case.

In my part of the world there is no Vudu or Movies Anywhere, only iTunes Google Play. I use iTunes and have done for the past 12 years. Are Apple going to disappear tomorrow? Anything is possible, but I don't think anyone would bet money on it. Could Apple close iTunes and withhold access to my digital collection? Yes absolutely. What are the chances that they would do that? I would bet there's more chance of your house burning down.

As for providers removing content, at least with iTunes, the content is only removed from sale. It is not removed from the users collection if purchased.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Admiral

You are basically making the same point in 1-4. This argument assumes that all digital providers are equal, which is not the case.

In my part of the world there is no Vudu or Movies Anywhere, only iTunes Google Play. I use iTunes and have done for the past 12 years. Are Apple going to disappear tomorrow? Anything is possible, but I don't think anyone would bet money on it. Could Apple close iTunes and withhold access to my digital collection? Yes absolutely. What are the chances that they would do that? I would bet there's more chance of your house burning down.

As for providers removing content, at least with iTunes, the content is only removed from sale. It is not removed from the users collection if purchased.

If the Studio/content owner rescinds licensing of a film from iTunes, if you already downloaded it locally they can’t prevent you from playing that, but if it removed from online search for your country, then it’s no longer downloadable, it’s gone. This is like the Apple statement concerning changing countries that shows how it works.

"Any movies you've already downloaded can be enjoyed at any time and will not be deleted unless you've chosen to do so. If you change your country setting, some movies may not be available to redownload from the movie store if the version you purchased isn't also available in the new country. If needed, you can change your country setting back to your prior country to redownload those movies."

A few years ago I got a very rare DVD of Devils Advocate, which a court judgement had the stores everywhere yank the DVD. It had just came out and a day or two later it was gone from all stores until it was rereleased to remove illegal use of art used without permission. Stuff like this is very uncommon. Still something like that example would apply to streaming also these days.