Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Like all home theater gear you have your good, better and best.

You forget poor. As they say they do exist!

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Vilya

At this point I feel that 8K is just not ready for "prime time." An 8K standard needs to be agreed upon first. Out of curiosity, what are the issues with 8K @ 60 fps?

While I am looking at buying a new AVR, 8K capabilities are not among my concerns. It is always nice to be ahead of the curve when buying new equipment, but with 8K content mostly limited to hugely compressed videos of drone flights on youtube, it is not important to me in selecting a new AVR.

Very bad motion blur. Image content is static - looks fantastic. But as soon as motion is present blur and ghosting occurs. Another issue is camera pans. The slightest movement of the camera results in blurred and out of focus images.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

You forget poor. As they say they do exist!

Don't you know that ditty?

"Good, better , best . . . never ever rest . . . until your good is better and your better is your best!"

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Very bad motion blur. Image content is static - looks fantastic. But as soon as motion is present blur and ghosting occurs. Another issue is camera pans. The slightest movement of the camera results in blurred and out of focus images.

Gee, sounds like everything that one could want when watching their new super premium 8K TV.

The industry really needs to work out these flaws before launching these new products; not everyone wants to be their beta tester and especially at early adopter prices.

[Vilya]

It is time for me to resume my American History documentary marathon. I have been stuck in The Civil War for what seems like ages; I have more documentaries related to this period than I realized.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Gee, sounds like everything that one could want when watching their new super premium 8K TV.

The industry really needs to work out these flaws before launching these new products; not everyone wants to be their beta tester and especially at early adopter prices.

It isn't "the industry" that's to blame. It's the TV manufacturers fault. Their competitiveness to claim 4K market share resulted in quick and substantial price drops making their products low margin. They needed a new high margin product line . . . Tada! 8K TVs! They had been showing them at electronics shows for years. That may have been fine when HDTVs were the only offering (yes, they were showing them as prototypes that long ago). But "the industry" doesn't move as quickly from one format to another as the TV manufacturers do.

When Japan announced they were going to skip over 4K and go right to 8K "the industry" said . . . "Good for you. Our next step will be 4K" and that's where the money and the research and development is going.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

It isn't "the industry" that's to blame. It's the TV manufacturers fault. Their competitiveness to claim 4K market share resulted in quick and substantial price drops making their products low margin. They needed a new high margin product line . . . Tada! 8K TVs! They had been showing them at electronics shows for years. That may have been fine when HDTVs were the only offering (yes, they were showing them as prototypes that long ago). But "the industry" doesn't move as quickly from one format to another as the TV manufacturers do.

When Japan announced they were going to skip over 4K and go right to 8K "the industry" said . . . "Good for you. Our next step will be 4K" and that's where the money and the research and development is going.

I shoulda said "tv manufacturers", but it was easier to type just "the industry."

The hardware is always ahead of the software, but with 8K the software seems kinda iffy as there is precious little 8K content out there and no one seems to be in any real hurry to offer any.

There will have to be more than sports content to motivate me to open my wallet and I am not sure that just the upscaling of 4K content will be enough to excite me. I have not personally seen any 8K TVs as the stores in my rural area do not carry them

An 8K standard should have existed before 8K TVs were marketed, in my opinion, and these flaws, such as the 60 fps problem, addressed beforehand as much as possible. With no hdmi version currently supporting 8K @ 120 fps that capability is of no consolation. In the race to be among the first companies to offer 8K TVs it seems like they do not take the time to work out these pesky details.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I shoulda said "tv manufacturers", but it was easier to type just "the industry."

I disagree. "the industry" is all encompassing: hardware (other than TVs), broadcasters, content creators, etc.

The hardware is always ahead of the software, but with 8K the software seems kinda iffy as there is precious little 8K content out there and no one seems to be in any real hurry to offer any.

That wasn't the case when HDTV was introduced. Broadcasters were sending HD signals before the TVs hit the sales floors. The Grand Alliance showed what can happen when the entire industry is working together.

There will have to be more than sports content to motivate me to open my wallet and I am not sure that just the upscaling of 4K content will be enough to excite me. I have not personally seen any 8K TVs as the stores in my rural area do not carry them

I have seen 8K TV with 8K content at a CES show. I have seen 8K TV showing upscaled 4K content at my local Best Buy. There is a real difference between the two. It's the TV OEMs trying to sell the latest and greatest with no available native content for the foreseeable future. As it stands, IMO 8K isn't even an evolutionary step-up. Just another money grab from the TV OEMs

An 8K standard should exist before 8K TVs are marketed, in my opinion, and these flaws, such as the 60 fps problem, addressed beforehand as much as possible. With no hdmi version currently supporting 8K @ 120 fps that is of no consolation. In the race to be among the first companies to offer 8K TVs it seems like they do not take the time to work out these pesky details.

Didn't that happen when they rushed the first 4K TVs to market? HDMI 1.4, no WCG, no HDR.

TV OEMS are the least patient companies when it comes to standards. After the success of the launch of HDTV they realized that the "bell curve" was too slow. It took almost 10 years for HDTV to become a household product. There was no way they would wait that long between next gen TVs.

You see what is going on. They look at standards as advances to their product lines. Last year it was HDMI 2.0, this year is 2.1. Next year it will be ATSC 3.0 built in tuners. They really don't want to provide free firmware upgrades. They want you to buy a new TV.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Phone manufacturers have made a very successful business with convincing people to upgrade their phone every year. TV manufacturers would like to follow the same pattern.

Bingo!

And those phones cost upwards of $1000 right? You can get a decent 4K TV for a thousand bucks today.

[Lee A Stewart]

Best Buy Re-Opening 800 Stores on June 15

Best Buy June 9 announced it would allow limited number of customers back into 800 stores in the United States beginning June 15. The nation’s largest CE brick-and-mortar chain said it would continue offering curbside pickup for online purchases. The chain will limit in-store footprint to 25% of capacity (60 customers), enforcing social distancing guidelines

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Bingo!

And those phones cost upwards of $1000 right? You can get a decent 4K TV for a thousand bucks today.

Best Buy offers the Samsung Galaxy Fold for $1,979.99; the damned will be skiing in hell before I pay that for a phone.

I'm still using my ancient Samsung Note 3. I must be immune to their marketing as my phone dates back to 2013.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Best Buy offers the Samsung Galaxy Fold for $1,979.99; the damned will be skiing in hell before I pay that for a phone.

I'm still using my ancient Samsung Note 3. I must be immune to their marketing as my phone dates back to 2013.

You sound like you use a phone mostly as a phone. I do that.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

Phone manufacturers have made a very successful business with convincing people to upgrade their phone every year. TV manufacturers would like to follow the same pattern.

Do people still upgrade every year? I don’t know a single friend or colleague that does that. Most are tied into two year contracts and many just keep their phones after that.

Regardless, forced upgrading simply won’t work in the tv industry. Phones are multi purpose devices that most use for work, travel, social, gaming, making memories with camera, scheduling, catch up tv etc..
TVs hsve one purpose, to show content. No way will the masses upgrade every year, if it’s pushed harder it will fail miserably. For the next decade, times will be hard for your typical working family.
A £700-800 expense every year is not viable.

Like I said, it won’t stop them trying. Look at obsoletion of tv apps? Some TVs from 2016 apparently won’t play Netflix, Amazon, Itunes apps etc..
as soon as smart TVs were a thing, it was obvious to see what the plan was.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

I disagree. "the industry" is all encompassing: hardware (other than TVs), broadcasters, content creators, etc.



That wasn't the case when HDTV was introduced. Broadcasters were sending HD signals before the TVs hit the sales floors. The Grand Alliance showed what can happen when the entire industry is working together.



I have seen 8K TV with 8K content at a CES show. I have seen 8K TV showing upscaled 4K content at my local Best Buy. There is a real difference between the two. It's the TV OEMs trying to sell the latest and greatest with no available native content for the foreseeable future. As it stands, IMO 8K isn't even an evolutionary step-up. Just another money grab from the TV OEMs



Didn't that happen when they rushed the first 4K TVs to market? HDMI 1.4, no WCG, no HDR.

TV OEMS are the least patient companies when it comes to standards. After the success of the launch of HDTV they realized that the "bell curve" was too slow. It took almost 10 years for HDTV to become a household product. There was no way they would wait that long between next gen TVs.

You see what is going on. They look at standards as advances to their product lines. Last year it was HDMI 2.0, this year is 2.1. Next year it will be ATSC 3.0 built in tuners. They really don't want to provide free firmware upgrades. They want you to buy a new TV.

What they want and what they will get are two different things. We are talking about folk who are still happy to watch SD on 4K TVs. Do you think they will care about those improvements? If they can stream HD they think it’s tomorrow’s world (only U.K. will get that reference).

[bhampton]

My step brother is on some type of subscription where he gets the latest iPhone every time there is a new one.

My daughter couldn't wait to go from iPhone 4 to iPhone 10 but turns out she kept the 4 which we planned to trade in because there's things she likes about it better .... (strange primitive stuff like actual buttons and a headphone jack.)

I want to go back a page to where we were talking about high quality audio and just add that some high quality audio systems are very simple. Some audiophiles prefer stereo to surround sound. Fancy high tech things like bluetooth audio actually destroy audio quality.

You don't have to lose audio quality if you like to keep things simple. Just wanted to throw that in there somewhere.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by bhampton

You sound like you use a phone mostly as a phone. I do that.

My phone is primarily used as a phone, but I also use it for mobile internet access and occasionally as a casual use camera.

AT&T has been trying to get me to "upgrade" my phone almost since the moment that I got it. A week hardly goes by that I don't get an email telling me what I am missing.

[cpr3584]

'Gone with the Wind' pulled from HBO Max until it can return with 'historical context'

The removal of the film comes as mass protests sweep across the United States following the death of George Floyd, an unarmed black man who was killed while in police custody.
The 1939 film, which tells the love story of Scarlett O'Hara and Rhett Butler during the American Civil War, is considered by many to be a cinematic classic and is one of the most popular films ever made. However, the movie is also incredibly controversial. The film's portrayal of slavery, African Americans and the Civil War South has been received much more critically in the decades since its release.
A spokesperson for HBO Max, which like CNN is owned by WarnerMedia, told CNN Business that "Gone with the Wind" is "a product of its time and depicts some of the ethnic and racial prejudices that have, unfortunately, been commonplace in American society."
"These racist depictions were wrong then and are wrong today, and we felt that to keep this title up without an explanation and a denouncement of those depictions would be irresponsible," the spokesperson said.
The spokesperson added that when the film returns to HBO Max, it "will return with a discussion of its historical context and a denouncement of those very depictions," and will be presented "as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed."


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/10/m...ZVDmf9BQog8AW8

[Vilya]

^You beat me to it.

HBO Max has decided to temporarily remove the movie Gone With The Wind from its streaming service due to its racist content until such time as they can add a "discussion of its historical context."

"HBO Max said the 1939 film was "a product of its time" and depicted "ethnic and racial prejudices" that "were wrong then and are wrong today".

It said the film would return to the platform at an unspecified date with a "discussion of its historical context".

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-52990714

Another example of why I dislike streaming. Removing movies, even temporarily, is ridiculous. I am an adult and I do not need for HBO Max to explain to me why a 1939 movie set during the Civil War contains racial prejudices. It is as if people expect some sort of guarantee that no movie may offend them no matter the era it is from or the subject that it is about. I do not need a corporate nanny and I can handle the terrible risk of my possibly being offended.

Adding a simple disclaimer, at the most, would be sufficient, such as those that precede some of the early Warner Bros. cartoons. This adequately addresses the concern:



It is a very quick and simple thing to add. I do not need to have a "historical context discussion" with HBO's management before I watch a movie.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

^You beat me to it.

HBO Max has decided to temporarily remove the movie Gone With The Wind from its streaming service due to its racist content until such time as they can add a "discussion of its historical context."

"HBO Max said the 1939 film was "a product of its time" and depicted "ethnic and racial prejudices" that "were wrong then and are wrong today".

It said the film would return to the platform at an unspecified date with a "discussion of its historical context".

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-52990714

Another example of why I dislike streaming. Removing movies, even temporarily, is ridiculous. I am an adult and I do not need for HBO Max to explain to me why a 1939 movie set during the Civil War contains racial prejudices. It is as if people expect some sort of guarantee that no movie may offend them no matter the era it is from or the subject that it is about. I do not need a corporate nanny and I can handle the terrible risk of my possibly being offended.

Adding a simple disclaimer, at the most, would be sufficient, such as those that precede some of the early Warner Bros. cartoons. It is a very quick and simple thing to add. I do not need to have a "historical context discussion" with HBO's management before I watch a movie.

I warned about this. Trial by social media. Utter bullshit. What next? No Christmas movies in case it offends Muslims? No 80’s slashers because a Black person kets killed first?

[Vilya]

It just makes me appreciate my unalterable physical media collection all the more.