Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Abby is Q

At the end of the day, these should be family movies. Too many scenes seemed too adult and some scenes were too childish. It needed a bit more balance and doesn't need to be more "serious" with the next installments. If anything, the sequels need to be a bit more lighthearted (but I'm doubting they will be based on how this ended).

While the Star Wars films were always considered "family movies", if you really think about it, they weren't. The scene is Episode IV where Luke's adoptive parents are burnt to a crisp for no good reason was not really appropriate for young kids. When you really think about it, the only difference between that scene and a scene that Tarantino would have made was that Tarantino would have shown them getting killed and the storm troopers would have cursed at them with the worst possible vulgarities. The Star Wars movies are considered family films only because there's no nudity, sexuality or vulgarity.

Lucas always tried to have it both ways in making the films appeal to both kids and adults. The problem, especially in the prequels, was that what was appealing to kids was not appealing to adults. So you had Jar Jar for kids and an extremely complex plot line about politics and the trade federation for adults that had to be incomprehensible to most kids. And across all six films, you had millions of deaths. But we've become immune to death in mass media.

And then since Lucas didn't really know where he was going with the original story, you also wind up with what because in retrospect an incestuous relationship between Luke and his sister, even though they never had sex.

I think it would naive to think that after paying $4 billion for Lucasfilm (half in stock) that Disney was not going to make a film that was going to appeal to the widest possible audience. And there was no way they were going to make a Star Wars film primarily for adults that would have substantially decreased licensing revenue from toys. From a business standpoint, they executed brilliantly. The film is on the way to becoming the best selling movie of all time (although probably not when older films are adjusted for inflation.) The movie has already done $740 billion domestically in 17 days. Although a lot of the Star Wars revenue was already baked in to Disney's stock price, I think the stock will hit new highs over the next few weeks.

I would guess that Disney is probably hearing all the criticism though and my bet is that the VIII will not again repeat all the beats of the originals. And I think the standalone films will stray even farther - they might prove to be the more interesting films.

[spanky87]

I like how JJ Abrams put it, "Star Wars is a kids movie without being a 'kids movie'."

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Abby is Q

But you can't ignore that the lead characters are female and black for a reason (money, money, money). I've never said it was a feminist agenda. There's really nothing about the movie that ever screamed "feminist" to me. I don't have an issue with the lead being a girl. I love it. I just find it funny that there are producers rolling in money at the same time they pat themselves on the back because they think they're being progressive.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous to believe that "money" was the reason for including a strong female character and a strong black character. If anything, the opposite is true because the audience for Star Wars is dominated by young white men (either those who were young in 1977, young when the prequels were released or young now). The fact is that we live in a diverse world and any movie should reflect that world, even an alien world, because we expect those humanoid characters to be like us. We shouldn't raise questions when diversity is shown, we should raise questions when it's not because in that case, it usually reflects the biases or the tunnel-vision of the creators: white middle-class men writing for white middle-class men, etc.

And let's not forget that the originals had Leia and Lando and the prequels had Padme, so this diversity is nothing new.

If any questions should be raised, it's how is it in that world that so many people speak with British accents and why are they speaking English at all? If a film like that had any real guts, everyone would be speaking an unknown language and the entire film would be subtitled.

[Samus Aran]

Originally Posted by Foggy

I love it when people are impressed with themselves for not enjoying a film. It shows so much about their true character.

What's even better is when they go see a movie they hate 10 times so they have more stuff to post about hating.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by spectre08

newsflash, just because feminists and your so-called "social justice warriors" decide they actually do like something, doesn't mean the studio intended that response. In fact it almost guarentees that that's not what the studio intended.

"SJWs" have officially become the boogie-man of the internet. You apparently can't have a strong female-character in a movie without people claiming it's some kind of feminist SJW pandering.

People had the same complaint on Mad Max: Fury Road as well. It's such a bizarre mindset that I can't figure out. They argue that they aren't sexist or racist and that characters should be cast based on what's good for the story/character or whatever. HOWEVER... if the main character is a woman or a black guy, the movie's being overly PC and pandering to SJWs.

[Rodney-2187]

I like strong women.

Because-Only-Spartan-Women-Give-Birth-To-Real-Men-Quote-By-Queen-Gorgo-In-300.jpg

[Abby is Q]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

While the Star Wars films were always considered "family movies", if you really think about it, they weren't. The scene is Episode IV where Luke's adoptive parents are burnt to a crisp for no good reason was not really appropriate for young kids. When you really think about it, the only difference between that scene and a scene that Tarantino would have made was that Tarantino would have shown them getting killed and the storm troopers would have cursed at them with the worst possible vulgarities. The Star Wars movies are considered family films only because there's no nudity, sexuality or vulgarity.

Lucas always tried to have it both ways in making the films appeal to both kids and adults. The problem, especially in the prequels, was that what was appealing to kids was not appealing to adults. So you had Jar Jar for kids and an extremely complex plot line about politics and the trade federation for adults that had to be incomprehensible to most kids. And across all six films, you had millions of deaths. But we've become immune to death in mass media.

And then since Lucas didn't really know where he was going with the original story, you also wind up with what because in retrospect an incestuous relationship between Luke and his sister, even though they never had sex.

I think it would naive to think that after paying $4 billion for Lucasfilm (half in stock) that Disney was not going to make a film that was going to appeal to the widest possible audience. And there was no way they were going to make a Star Wars film primarily for adults that would have substantially decreased licensing revenue from toys. From a business standpoint, they executed brilliantly. The film is on the way to becoming the best selling movie of all time (although probably not when older films are adjusted for inflation.) The movie has already done $740 billion domestically in 17 days. Although a lot of the Star Wars revenue was already baked in to Disney's stock price, I think the stock will hit new highs over the next few weeks.

I would guess that Disney is probably hearing all the criticism though and my bet is that the VIII will not again repeat all the beats of the originals. And I think the standalone films will stray even farther - they might prove to be the more interesting films.

I think my issue with the adult subject matter in this movie as opposed to the original was the way it was depicted, and not necessarily the undertones. In the original all we see is Luke being sad finding his home burnt down. In this movie we get "the horrors of war" with a stormtrooper literally smearing blood across the helmet of another stormtrooper's helmet. The way it was depicted felt like something more appropriate for Platoon, not a fun space adventure. And then the bifocals alien woman just took me way out of the movie because I couldn't handle something more appropriate for Harry Potter being in the same movie after we had already seen so many atrocities. It was just a minor criticism, and not something I felt ruined the movie, but it made me concerned the sort of direction they might go in for the sequel when

[Show spoiler]the villain gets slashed across his face with a lightsaber, Han is killed by his son in a fairly violent manner, we still have no explanation of Rey's troubled childhood, Finn's troubled childhood was glossed over and may be explored further, giant hologram monster man promising grave consequences, and Luke has a scary skeletal robot hand. Seriously, he couldn't wear a glove?

It's just things like that that make me worry for the direction of the next sequel that may feel it necessary to be more dark. Basically, I'm worried the next movie will go Dark Knight when I personally feel it should be more Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Zivouhr]

No one movie can please everyone. It's impossible. No matter what, there will always be audience members who will hate a movie for their own expectations and reasons, but if the movie entertained and satisfied most of its target fans, mission accomplished.

As others have suggested, movies are made to entertain, but also earn a profit just like any business trade and nothing wrong with that.

Originally Posted by celticmoon

Yeah, I've been seeing a lot of criticisms regarding Finn's character.... That he's a reject of a character without any qualities to aspire to, or that he is completely useless in the narrative, and I just don't get it.

First off, his actions, in some way or another, directly influence most of the main events that take place throughout the story.

[Show spoiler]He serves, at the very least, as a secondary protagonist in the story and offers a unique perspective as a character that has broken away from the 'bad guys'. And he actually has a full character arc throughout the film... at first his sole objective is to run, to get as far away from the First Order as possible. Yet, by the end of the film we see him risking his life to save his friend, ultimately facing off with Kylo Ren in a light saber duel that he must have no confidence in winning.

Which leads me to the criticism that I've seen in other parts of the Internet, in which people mention that he is a terrible character that fails to become a hero and possesses nothing that viewers can aspire to, that he is simply there to be the Jar Jar of this new trilogy, and all I can say is 'what?' I can agree with the fact that he seems to fumble a bit more than necessary, and it doesn't help when he is contrasted with Rey. But he is shown to be an excellent marksman, and despite being defeated in both light saber duels, I personally thought he was still shown to be competent in those fights. But the character's real strength is his heart of gold, his compassion for others, and courage that he exhibits as he faces his fears. If that isn't something to aspire to, I don't know what is.

Agreed. His character made a difference in the plot, even if his intentions were for

[Show spoiler]his own freedom from the First Order. In the end, he freed Poe Dameron, decided to fight alongside the Rebels to help save Rey and showed Han Solo the way into the Star Killer base to destroy it

, much like Han Solo's New Hope story arc, where a

[Show spoiler]smuggler with his own ambitions reconsiders his greed in order to help those in need

.

[Rodney-2187]

Finn is incredibly strong. It takes a lot to

[Show spoiler]break free of brainwashing not only you but also everyone around you has received since you were children.

[motorheadache95]

Originally Posted by Abby is Q

I think my issue with the adult subject matter in this movie as opposed to the original was the way it was depicted, and not necessarily the undertones. In the original all we see is Luke being sad finding his home burnt down. In this movie we get "the horrors of war" with a stormtrooper literally smearing blood across the helmet of another stormtrooper's helmet. The way it was depicted felt like something more appropriate for Platoon, not a fun space adventure.

And the charred skeletal remains of his aunt and uncle. That was actually quite a horrific part of the movie.

[Rodney-2187]

We have movie about laser swords, spaceships, force powers, light speed, and aliens, and what some people finding too hard to believe are a strong female and a black guy? Crazy.

[Abby is Q]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

And the charred skeletal remains of his aunt and uncle. That was actually quite a horrific part of the movie.

I wasn't sure. I thought that may have been in there, but I haven't seen the movie in a few years now so I couldn't remember.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by motorheadache95

And the charred skeletal remains of his aunt and uncle. That was actually quite a horrific part of the movie.

That's actually one of the best parts of the film. The way it's acted is brilliant. Luke looks away at first, but then forces himself to look, basically telling himself "remember this. Remember what the empire is, and what it has done."

[Batman1980]

Originally Posted by Gamma_Winstead

That's actually one of the best parts of the film. The way it's acted is brilliant. Luke looks away at first, but then forces himself to look, basically telling himself "remember this. Remember what the empire is, and what it has done."

Waiting for the first intentionally (or perhaps unintentionally ) scene of the new films, guessing it'll be in Episode VIII. Unpopular opinion: I like Poe a lot more than Finn.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by rodneyfaile

We have movie about laser swords, spaceships, force powers, light speed, and aliens, and what some people finding too hard to believe are a strong female and a black guy? Crazy.

there are people here who think women would never want to catch ghosts either, because that is clearly where they draw the line at reality.

[Sylentwolf]

Originally Posted by Foggy

I love it when people are impressed with themselves for not enjoying a film. It shows so much about their true character.

This reminds me of something I heard on the radio about people who truly deny their own living conditions, whether in health or something else...

"When your pain overtakes your ego, is when someone truly begins to change the way they live their life."

I have a good friend who has his opinions and I have mine. Until the topic of conversation is provened by its author(s) for a specific topic or subject of concern, we'll respect each others differences in opinions.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

The fact is that we live in a diverse world and any movie should reflect that world

Wrong!!! Movies should reflect whatever the story teller wants to reflect! Whether that means a strong female lead, a white male lead, a Guatemalan midget lead, etc it doesnt matter! It's whatever best serves the story and the direcor's vision that matters. It's when the "bean counters" interfere with the creative process for the sole purpose of appealing to a specific demographic that it becomes wrong.

[spectre08]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Wrong!!! Movies should reflect whatever the story teller wants to reflect! Whether that means a strong female lead, a white male lead, a Guatemalan midget lead, etc it doesnt matter! It's whatever best serves the story and the direcor's vision that matters. It's when the "bean counters" interfere with the creative process for the sole purpose of appealing to a specific demographic that it becomes wrong.

I can't help but lol when people talk about "director's vision" in relation to a movie like Star Wars VII

JJ Abrams was a hired employee every bit as much as every actor, editor, grip, and caterer that worked on it.

At best on a movie like TFA the director gets to put their flavor into the movie. The "vision" comes 100% from the studio executives who are writing the checks.

The only "story teller" involved in this movie is Disney Studios. They hired the writers, directors, and actors that they thought would best tell the story they wanted.

and no, this is NOT a knock on Disney or studio film making, because obviously they did a damn good job of hiring the right people.

[Gamma_Winstead]

Originally Posted by Batman1980

Waiting for the first intentionally (or perhaps unintentionally ) scene of the new films, guessing it'll be in Episode VIII. Unpopular opinion: I like Poe a lot more than Finn.

Poe is awesome. I can't say I like him more than Finn, but I can say I adore the dude. I loved all the new characters, and can't wait to see what they do with them in the future.

[Packerfan75]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Wrong!!! Movies should reflect whatever the story teller wants to reflect! Whether that means a strong female lead, a white male lead, a Guatemalan midget lead, etc it doesnt matter! It's whatever best serves the story and the direcor's vision that matters. It's when the "bean counters" interfere with the creative process for the sole purpose of appealing to a specific demographic that it becomes wrong.

That's exactly what I was saying. I'm not opposed to female leads, I'm opposed to purposely placing a female lead or anyone else for the sake of being diverse, satisfying groups and appearing to be sensitive. I'm not even say that that's what happened here but if it did or wherever it does then I oppose that. I think it's the ugly side of media that's lost any focus on creativity and is rather more interested in appeasing people's self interests and/or pushing it's own agendas.