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Old 05-29-2025, 03:36 PM   #2381
Havok83 Havok83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eiknarf View Post
Game Ellie says, "Joel did what he did to save me. I'm the one that you want."

In the show she says, "I didn't mean to hurt them."
There's no need for the self-aggrandizing!

Abby was in the room when Ellie said she was going to kill them all. The show seems to want Ellie to still be the innocent child from season 1. And it's delivered less like a calculated ploy and more like an excuse a child sputters out when caught doing something they knew was wrong. It's a full blown character assassination.
Okay so your issue is how it differs from the game? Thanks bc thats not context that was in the original post. I do agree that the show is trying to portray Ellie more sympathetic but in this instance Im gonna let it slide for the reasons I mentioned. She's trying to diffuse the situatioin by any means necessary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop_99 View Post
This question may be a spoiler for the game, as I don't remember all these small details. Right now, I am in my first playthrough in 5 years, on the PS5 Pro. I'm in Ellie's day 2, right when she encounters the scars
We dont see the Abby vs Ellie fight. The season ends on a cliffhanger and if the show is to adapt that, it'll happen in season 3

Last edited by Havok83; 05-29-2025 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 05-29-2025, 04:43 PM   #2382
emailking1 emailking1 is offline
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Originally Posted by eiknarf View Post
Game Ellie says, "Joel did what he did to save me. I'm the one that you want."
She also says that in the show.
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Old 05-29-2025, 05:07 PM   #2383
Bishop_99 Bishop_99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
We dont see the Abby vs Ellie fight. The season ends on a cliffhanger and if the show is to adapt that, it'll happen in season 3
Thanks! I remember that, but I don't remember if Abby
[Show spoiler] shot Tommy in the back of the head during that final scene in Ellie's day 3, or did Abby do that in her day 3? I just want to know if they cut Tommy getting shot in the head or if it is done in a more believable fashion.
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Old 05-29-2025, 05:18 PM   #2384
emailking1 emailking1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop_99 View Post
Thanks! I remember that, but I don't remember if Abby
[Show spoiler] shot Tommy in the back of the head during that final scene in Ellie's day 3, or did Abby do that in her day 3? I just want to know if they cut Tommy getting shot in the head or if it is done in a more believable fashion.
What they showed in the show is essentially how that scene goes from Ellie's perspective as seen up to this point in the game.

But! (game spoiler)
[Show spoiler]Lev is nowhere to be seen and they showed the whole room. You can't see the whole room in the game on Ellie's day 3 and he's off to the side. So not sure if he's just not there in the show or it'll just be a plot hole they ignore or what.
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Old 05-29-2025, 06:38 PM   #2385
King O.A. King O.A. is offline
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Originally Posted by emailking1 View Post
What they showed in the show is essentially how that scene goes from Ellie's perspective as seen up to this point in the game.

But! (game spoiler)
[Show spoiler]Lev is nowhere to be seen and they showed the whole room. You can't see the whole room in the game on Ellie's day 3 and he's off to the side. So not sure if he's just not there in the show or it'll just be a plot hole they ignore or what.
I actually thought they should've showed Lev in that scene. Would've been cool.
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Old 05-29-2025, 07:54 PM   #2386
Mierzwiak Mierzwiak is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
She isn't presented as anything like a moron
Of course she is. Watch the season again and count every situation where Ellie would have been absolutely clueless about what to do / where to go / killed if not Dina / Jesse.

Look only at the last episode with Ellie wanting to rescue (!?!?!?) a Scar guy (WHAT THE ACTUAL ****!?) like a brainless version of, as you said it, Rambo.
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Old 05-29-2025, 09:03 PM   #2387
MuffinMcFluffin MuffinMcFluffin is online now
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I think instead of six WLF's against the Scar, it should've just been two or three of them. Nobody can side with Ellie when there were six of them. Her argument that Jesse "let a kid die" just doesn't work when it is six. That is outright suicide.

Make it slightly uneven or a coin-flip, and both sides of the argument make much more sense.
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Old 05-29-2025, 10:46 PM   #2388
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Originally Posted by eiknarf View Post
In the show she says, "I didn't mean to hurt them."
C'mon Ellie... No wonder the show keeps having other characters remind her why she's in Seattle in the first place.
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Old 05-29-2025, 11:01 PM   #2389
emailking emailking is offline
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I think this is an argument based on nothing.
[Show spoiler]In the game she's willing to show mercy to Nora if she'll say where Abby is (show Ellie isn't, and doesn't), and also tells Owen and Abby she'll spare them if they talk and doesn't appear to be lying. I.e. she's also softened somewhat at that point.
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Old 05-29-2025, 11:29 PM   #2390
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If interested, links to my notes on all 7 episodes.

1. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1695
2. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1736
3. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1931
4. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1967
5. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=2070
6. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=2162
7. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=2232

And here all of them are if you want to read them right here. The spoilers involve, everything aired through that episode and corresponding game sections. There are no spoilers for parts of the game the series hasn't reached yet.

1.
[Show spoiler]
I have a lot to say, get ready!

This has spoilers for the episode that just aired and for Season 1 and corresponding game segments. There are no future spoilers from the 2nd game. This was somewhat difficult because of the nonlinear structure of the second game (a strategy the show understandably is not using) but I think I managed it!

This episode covers the first part of the 2nd game taking place in Jackson. I have been both pumped and worried about this episode for weeks. But I have learned to trust after Season 1 whatever plan Druckmann and Mazin have for adapting the game and I think this turned out pretty well.

Isabela Merced as Dina: I have followed Isabela for many years and have been excited to see her as Dina ever since it was announced. I know some people think she is "too pretty" to play Dina but I think she matches the character pretty well physically. And she nailed it and was adorable to watch. I totally bought that she is someone Ellie could have an interest in. I loved her interaction with Joel. I think she captured Dina's humor pretty well though not as dry.

Pedro and Bella did a great job again playing Joel and Ellie. His scene with the therapist was both humorous and gut wrenching, and we can feel the guilt he has for lying to Ellie about the Fireflies, even as he is simultaneously in denial about it. He also did a great job portraying an exasperated parent dealing with an obstinate teenager, matching Troy Baker's convincing performance in the game. It is clear Ellie is upset about something and Bella did a great job portraying that frustration and anger, particularly in the scene fighting Caleb (scene and character not in the game), when she is mad that he pulled his punches. I loved that scene. Bella was also adorable when the situation called for it, e.g. in flirting with Dina. Note: if you didn't know Bella Ramsey uses they/them pronouns now (used any pronouns before) and I will try to be mindful of that going forward.

We've been hearing since season 1 that season 2 would have a renewed focus on the infected. While ever-present in the game, both of them, the infected are curiously missing in the 2nd half of season 1. They knew many fans were upset about this and have promised us plenty of infected in season 2, and they definitely delivered on that in the first episode. The supermarket scene with the Stalker was terrifying. The sniping scene with Ellie and Tommy was great too.

Maybe the biggest surprise for me was the decision to make clear from the opening that Abby is after Joel. In the game we don't find out for a long time why Abby and the group are present and this builds up the tension surrounding her presence in the game. We will lose that, and the moment when we find out why Abby is in Jackson. But perhaps it is needed to do it this way. The narrative structure of the 2nd game is just not something that can be easily replicated in passive drama. Mazin (showrunner) noted in the Behind the Episode segment that they wanted to show from the start that Joel's actions have consequences beyond the main characters of the first game and that people were affected by it. And that if you felt that scene mirrored what Joel went through with his daughter, it was intentional.

I found it interesting they decided to reuse the credits music from Season 1. It's the intro music to the first game (plays right after Sarah dies and the timeline jumps and the opening credits roll) so it made sense as the credit music, but it's not used at all in the 2nd game nor is any music from the first game. I guess there was no other good choice though, especially with how epic the opening credits are. Side note: none of the amazing music from the 2nd game made it into this episode, except for some pulsing sound effects that sourced from a tense gameplay sequence with infected. They did play some of it in the Behind the Episode segment. I think all of the great music from the first game was used in season 1 so I expect we'll get some soon in the how.




Some things I really liked from the episode:

Ellie's journal makes an appearance, her journal is present throughout the 2nd game. I imagine it's not the last time we'll catch a glimpse.

Ellie and Dina's dance, and the subsequent confrontations with Seth and Joel, was mostly a 1 for 1 recreation of the game and it was very well done. I'm very glad they did not change that scene too much.

I love the whole supermarket sequence. This was a really good adaptation. Most gameplay sequences were narratively cut from the first game, basically whenever they could not move the plot forward. The supermarket sequence is really cool so I'm glad they included it, even though it just serves as a gameplay tutorial in the game. I *almost* stealthed out the whole thing last night as I was furiously trying to play through everything I thought this episode would cover, but Dina got spotted by a clicker in the last section and messed it up. (I still didn't die though.) Also with that, I loved how they showed Ellie throwing the bottle to distract the clicker and then stabbing it with her knife. Bottle and brick throwing as distraction is a key gameplay element of both games but has never made an appearance in the series until now. I also loved how they showed the employee of the month board. In the game that board is needed to solve a puzzle for a safe combination, and involves the month the dog ("my good old boy") won employee of the month.

We got a pun, from Dina. Ellie's jokes are a recurring theme in the first game and also in Season 1, but are toned down significantly in the 2nd game with the more serious tone. I hope we still get some more though.

Shimmer the horse, who is in the game, was brought back. They introduced her in the Jackson sequence in S1 Episode 6 and I mentioned we would see her again! In the game, this was the first time we see her, when Ellie and Dina rode out.

Cat is now a fully fledged character that we meet (though now spelled "Kat" at least in the subtitles). In the game we find out about Cat, Ellie's former love interest, through side chats during gameplay segments and from Elie's journal but never see her in the game.

We got a good look at Ellie's chemical burn (to hide her bite scars) and the tattoo that Cat gave her to cover it up.

I loved how Dina cut off Jessie and teased him saying they need to hit the checkpoints and fill out the log books, in the game he just hands this down as an order. Nice turning of the tables there.

I liked the homage to Curtis and Viper, a fiction 80s action movie series Joel is obsessed with.

I loved the ending scene, with the foreshadowing of a major horde coming, with Abby and the group simultaneously arriving at Jackson. This was a haunting scene.

I liked how they pointed out Ellie is living in Joel's garage. I just noticed last night for the first time her room is a garage repurposed as a bedroom. No direct evidence in the game though that they live in the same house.




Significant differences from the game:

The biggest difference probably is that we know Abby's motivations up front (mentioned above).

The scene with Joel telling Tommy what he did at the hospital and lying to Ellie, is now replaced with an extended scene from the end of the first game, with Ellie walking away after Joel swears he's telling the truth. We never saw an extension of that scene in the games at any point.

The time jump between the end of the first season and now is 5 years in the show, it is 4 years in the game.

We start out right away with Abby out for vengeance, it's a while before you find out in the game that's what she's after. And we find out at Utah at the hospital, right after Joel and Ellie leave, and not Jackson. Mazin says he thought it was important to show up front that there were consequences of Joel's actions and the people it affected.

It's clear from the start that Ellie is mad at Joel for some reason. In the game it takes a long time before we find out she is upset with him. At most there seems to be some distance between them.

Joel is in therapy, and with Kate McCallister (from Home Alone, Catherine O'Hara did a great job as the therapist by the way), and seems to be in denial about why Ellie is upset with him. No evidence of these therapy sessions in the game. The character of Eugene, who is mentioned in the game, and has a secret underground weed lab that Ellie and Dina come across, has now been killed by Joel in the show, apparently after getting infected. And he was the therapist's husband. In the game he died of a stroke at age 73 ("may we all die of natural causes" as Dina says, "may we all live to 73" as Ellie says). Druckmann (game & show creator) said in the Behind the Episode segment this was an opportunity to exploit the character of Eugene for a greater narrative purpose. To create tension between Joel and his therapist. (I guess the only therapist in town?)

There is no interaction between Joel and Dina that we see in the game. In fact, Ellie doesn't want to bring her over to Joel at all because she's worried he'll think she's not a good influence. In the show it seems Joel really likes Dina.

Ellie sniping infected with Tommy takes place in the present day instead of during a flashback 2 years prior in the game. The argument she has about whether she should be careful about publicizing her immunity now takes place with Tommy, and in present day, instead of with Joel in the same flashback. I loved Bella's performance in that scene, yelling into the void that she's infected for no one to hear.

Maria now has a son. This is consistent with the first season as we found out she is pregnant. In the game she has no children and runs the entire city and power plant. In the show they have a council, as was mentioned in the S1 Episode 6.

The supermarket sequence now takes place the day of the dance instead of the next day. The dead moose the infected took down is replaced by a bear. When Ellie falls through the floor (and this surprised me even though I knew it might be coming) Dina does not fall with her. Ellie fights a stalker and it's apparently the first stalker they've seen. Stalkers are present in the first game and season 1 appeared to portray them sometimes though they were never mentioned, but now it seems stalkers are a new type of infected they've never seen before. In the game there is no stalker in the market, just runners and clickers. Ellie gets bit again! She has now been bitten 3 separate times in the show, vs. 1 time in the games so far to this point.

Ellie and Dina do not get caught in a snowstorm after the supermarket sequence. Obviously they do not find Eugene's secret hideout and secret underground weed lab and smoke weed there together. (Some of what happens in this scene may still be coming though in a different setting I guess.) In the game, Maria has a no weed policy. In the show, it seems lots of people have weed.

Dina brings up watching Curtis and Viper 2 with Joel, apparently without Ellie. In the game, Ellie suggest she might suggest they watch a movie together, as an overture to Joel.

The council discusses the stalker and the threat it might pose. That doesn't happen in the game as there's no council (Maria runs everything) and stalkers are not new to them. Mazin said in the Behind the Episode segment that they want to show an evolution to the infected during the show and to make them seem more dangerous. This happens in the 2nd game somewhat too though not in the same manner at all as stalkers are not new. But I like this approach.

The dance is a New Year's Celebration. No evidence of the date in the game other than its winter. As mentioned it now takes place the night of the supermarket sequence instead of the night before. It is presented in sequential narrative structure instead of as a flashback in the game. This again reflects the difficulty with adapting the odd narrative structure of the game with its many flashbacks.

After the dance, when Joel is playing the guitar, Ellie walks right past him. In the game they have a long and thought provoking conversation. However, this occurs in a flashback in the game and would not carry the same meaning at all if they had it right now in the show. So this makes sense I suppose.

The horde at the end is awakened by the underground mycelium network of the cordyceps. In the game it's just a random horde. But season 1 introduced the mycelium network (again a real thing for many fungal species) to give the infected an additional threat mechanism, since they decided not to use the spores which would not work well in a show adaptation. (Remember, it's Ellie getting bit a 2nd time in S1 Episode 2 that convinces Joel she's immune. In the game, it's her resistance to the spores that finally convinces him she's really immune.)

The episode ends with Abby and Owen approaching Jackson together dead set on entering. In the game Owen turns around at this point because Mel is pregnant and he tells Abby that (not clear yet if Mel is a character in the show) and tries to convince Abby to turn around too, saying the group wouldn't want to attack an entire settlement. Abby sees this as betrayal. But it's possible some of the interaction may be in scenes we haven't seen yet.



Overall I am pretty happy with this episode, I think it is setting up the tension well. I kind of wish I didn't know what was going to happen. Maybe they will change things up a little bit and surprise me!


2.
[Show spoiler]Obviously don't read until you've watched the episode or have played the game.

So this is the episode when it happens. Probably a massive shock to anybody watching the series and managed to stay spoiler free, just as it was to all of the gamers who managed to stay spoiler free with the hack and leak of the story. (Through incredible effort I managed that myself, and had no idea that was going to happen until it did.)

When this happens in the game, I finally realized why some people who had been spoiled didn't want to play it anymore. I was a little upset, and very shocked, but tried to keep an open mind. In the end, I was happy with where things ended up. But the game has a nonlinear structure that cannot be replicated in the show, while it is extremely effective in the game, it's not clear we can capture the same perspective, from both Abby and Ellie, that we do in the game. But we'll see! I think they will pull it off!




Things I liked:

I *loved* the horde attack on the town, something not in the game. This made for wonderful action and riveting television. Other than a brief sequence where the infected weren't attacking Tommy, everything went down in a pretty believable way. They have a plan for this kind of attack and put it into action quickly and effectively. Remember is S1 Episode 7 when Joel says there are no infected this remote and the guard says "the hell there's ain't." Yeah, I'd say. Anyway, this must have been an incredible effort to put together from a technical perspective.

In Tommy's speech to the town, for a moment when he wasn't on the screen, he sounded just like Tommy from the game, I was confused at first. That was really impressive of Gabriel Luna, I never realized how much he manages to sound like Tommy.

We got another bloater! We had one in Season 1 in the Pittsburgh/Kansas City episodes. But this one gets a lot more screen time. It sounds exactly like the bloaters in the game, are just as hard to kill, and die (finally) just as randomly. They're just not as quick in the game, and no acid spores (this version doesn't have spores). Tommy’s flamethrower was awesome!

I liked that Eugene's secret weed stash made it into this episode, and Ellie found the bong mask!

Some of the interaction between Jessie and Ellie around the kiss with Dina the night before, and him teasing here, were pretty much one to one for how it happened in the game. Then Ellie gives some exposition of her issues with Joel. In the game we still don't know she's upset with him. But it’s good we see this here.

The lodge is a pretty good recreation of the lodge from the game.

Abby has a dream where she finds her dad dead and talks with herself, debating whether to go in to the surgery room. I thought this was effective.

Apparently many of these scenes were filmed in a real snowstorm, they say this in the Making Of segment. That's pretty impressive!

The fence scene, with Abby escaping the infected with them right on top of her, was thrilling and this scene also happens in the game, but you don't experience the same way because you're furiously trying to escape.

Kaitlyn Dever is doing a really good job of playing Abby. While she's not buff, as in the game, she's making about for it with her emotion and conviction when she talks. Bella did the death scene really well, and most of what Ellie said during this scene happens in the game. Bella said they cried when they read the death scene in the script, even knowing it was coming. I wasn't as impressed with Pedro's performance here. I wish though they would have given him more lines and a chance to push back. His makeup was really good though, and communicating his love to Ellie with his fingers, when he can't talk, was very well done. I almost wanted to cry myself there.

Ellie got a chance to bond with Joel right after he died. She's knocked out in the game. A song by Ashley Johnson (who plays Ellie in the game) plays during this scene.

I am glad they made crystal clear in the last scene Joel is dead so people would not be debating all week whether he is dead or not. I'm very glad I don't have to keep this a secret anymore from anybody watching the show but who hasn't played the games.





Significant differences from the game.

There are 2 really big differences from the game.

In the game Tommy & Joel are on patrol together and Ellie & Dina are on patrol together. Jessie is off in another patrol altogether. In the show they've switched it up. Joel & Dina are on patrol together and Ellie & Jessie are on patrol together, Tommy is protecting the town. I'm not a big fan of this change as we don't get the love scene between Ellie and Dina. Possibly something will come later, but Ellie will not have the innocence that she does when it happens in the game. On the other hand, once the decision is made to have Tommy protect the town, I guess they had to change it up somewhat. But Jessie and Joel would have made more sense to me so Ellie and Dina could still get stuck together.

The town is not attacked by a horde in the game. A much smaller horde is after Abby, part of it follows them to lodge when the WLF group burns it up with molotovs. In the show, the horde is initially after Abby, but the mycelium network of the cordyceps has been growing in the town and this diverts the entire horde to the town. I *do* like this as it was incredible seeing the town defend itself against the horde. This does mean Abby has to convince Joel to go to the lodge to stock up on supplies, vs. just escaping the horde there.

Another significant difference is that Abby tells Joel exactly why she wants to kill him. The gamer has no idea at this point who Abby is or even that she wants to kill Joel, until the moment she shoots him. In the show, we get the flashback scene to when she finds her dad dead (the flashback comes much later in the game), and then tons of exposition from Abby explaining to Joel why she wants to kill him. In the game, she doesn't tell him who she is or why she wants him dead, just that he doesn't get to rush it.

Abby gives away a lot of information about who the group is and how to find him. In the game all they have to go on is WLF and Seattle.

Abby says Isaac (WLF leader) has a code, don't kill anyone defenseless. That's very much not his philosophy in the game.

In the game Owen tries to talk Abby out of approaching Jackson. She sees this as betrayal. In the episode tonight, he says he plans to try to talk her out of it, but he doesn't get the chance.

Eugene's weed stash is in a 7-Eleven and conspicuous, not in an underground hideout.

In the game the snowstorm happens right after the supermarket sequence and Ellie and Dina get caught in the storm and shelter together (it's Ellie and Jessie in the show who shelter together). The chronological order has been switched up as the supermarket sequence took place after the dance in the game, and on the same day Joel is killed. This was evident from the first episode that they were changing the chronological order of thee events.

The infected are using their own dead as insulation and hibernating under the snow. Nothing like this in the game.

In the death scene, Ellie cuts Manny's hand, not Jordan's face (Jordan's not a character in the show apparently). Manny doesn't spit on Joel after saying "***** pendejo." They don't knock Ellie out. Dina is put to sleep vs. Tommy being knocked out. Ellie is discovered by Jessie instead of Dina.

After Joel's death the audio goes inaudible which gives Ellie's experience, she’s been kicked in the guts, is in shock, and can’t hear. What we miss is what the WLF members are saying to themselves, something that might be a flashback later. Not exactly a change but we get both perspectives eventually in the game.




Really good episode and incredible job by everyone on the 2 main events, the attack on the town and Joel’s death. I think that will probably be the biggest episode this season, and I won’t have to write as much for the upcoming episodes.


3.
[Show spoiler]This episode covers the period after Joel's death, Ellie's grief process, the deliberation over whether to send a team after the Wolves in Seattle, and Ellie's and Dina's journey to Seattle.

Obviously nothing is going to top episode 2 for a while, but I liked this adaptation of this section of the game. It had some interesting additions that would not work as well in the game. And I loved all of the Season 1 music making a reappearance.

In the game Ellie leaves for Seattle within days of Joel's death. She is relatively unscathed from the attack, Dina already loves her, and Maria hesitantly lets them leave. In this version, Ellie is physically and emotionally scarred from the attack and spends 3 months in the hospital. The town was attacked by the horde (not in the game) and needs time to recover from that. So this is more realistic and lets us see more of how the characters deal with Joel's death and how Jackson is recuperating. As the creator Druckmann said in the making of segment, the game is action oriented so they had to get on with it.

I liked how Ellie's appearance has notably changed (hair) which illustrates the passage of time and how she is a changed person now in some sense. It was interesting that during this time Dina lies to Ellie about her knowledge of the Wolves, though this seemed like a means to an end, otherwise Ellie would not have waited around 3 months.

We have new opening credits! I was wondering if they would keep the figures of Joel and Ellie on their journey together that appear right at the end of the opening credits. It made perfect sense for Season 1 but does not going forward. They've changed it though to just have Ellie. It's good they did not change it before now though, so as to not give away the surprise of Joel's death.

I loved Ellie's walkthrough of Joel's house, finding his broken watch that has daughter Sarah gave him 9and that he was apparently wearing when he dies), taking his revolver from their journey is Season 1, and smelling the coat he wore. All of this is in the game, but there's an added emotional scene of Ellie crying which Bella did very well.

I loved Gail the therapist coming back, this may be the last we see of her for a while. She meets with both Ellie and Tommy. With Ellie, she brings up Joel saying that he wronged Ellie by saving her, Ellie acts like she doesn't know what that refers to but it's obvious she's hiding something. And later with Tommy at a baseball game, he mentions that he doesn't want to see Ellie end up like Joel, justifying killing. Gail intimates that she thinks this may be in Ellie's nature and that you just can't save some people. This harkens back to what David (cannibal) said in Season 1 Ep 8, telling Ellie that she has a "violent heart", before she ending up stabbing him about 20 times after he tied to rape her.

Eugene gets another mention, something he had mentioned to Dina about the Fireflies helped her figure out where the W.L.F. are. I think we're building towards a flashback with Eugene as he is having a much bigger effect on characters than he does in the game.

I loved Ellie's speech to the council, to convince them to approve her journey to Seattle. I thought she made some good points and was pretty convincing, although Gail said she saw right through it. I liked how they initially made you think the vote was going to be close with alternating yes/no's but in the end it is a decisive 3-8 against sending anyone to Seattle.

I liked how Dina planned out their whole trip, and as they said in the making of segment, she acts like a balancing force for Ellie, to hold back some of her impulsiveness. (Merced was adorable as Dina the whole episode too.) I also loved how she told Ellie not to put the gun in her pocket because she'll shoot her ass off, and Ellie fondly remembers Joel told her the same thing in S1E4.

I liked how Seth stood up for Ellie and then gives her and Dina some of the provisions they need to go to Seattle. Recall he called her a slur in episode 1, and appears to be trying to make amends for that. Ellie appears to finally accept his apology before they leave.

I loved the scene at the Joel's grave with Ellie and Dina, and she left stones / coffee beans for him, the same way he did for Tess is S1E3.

I loved all of the Season 1 music that played during this episode, including at Joel's grave and at the Seattle outskirts, in particular "The Path” played during the end credits, my favorite music from the first game, which also played in the end credits of the finale last season. I believe this was in honor and memory of Joel and what his character means to this story even if he’s not here anymore.

I liked the scene in the tent with Ellie and Dina, when she's trying to figure out if Dina could be more than a friend. I thought this would be where the missing love scene that occurs before Joel’s death in the game would be inserted, but they did not go that far. They discuss their kiss (now 3 months ago) but leave it at that.

The outskirts of Seattle were very well done visually, mostly CG of course, but it looks very similar to how it is in the game, complete with the sense of abandonment and maybe there aren't many people they'll have to deal with in the city.

We are also introduced to the Scars/Seraphites for the first time! We see they are very religious and refer to the infected as demons, and also that they are very scared of the Wolves. Seeing the massacre of the group of Scars gives Ellie resolve to pursue Abby and the W.L.F. I liked how the Scars whistle exactly like they do in the game, with the same rhythms and tones for alert whistles and response whistles.



Significant differences from the game:

Biggest difference is all the additional elements and events before Ellie and Dina leave. In the game, Ellie is never in the hospital that we know of. There is no council or council meeting because Maria runs everything and immediately rejects sending a team to Seattle or letting Ellie leave. Tommy is the one who knows Abby's name and that they are from a group called the W.L.F, because in the game Tommy is with Joel when he is killed, not Dina. While he wants to go to Seattle to pursue revenge, he knows he cannot get Maria to relent and so half-heartedly tries to convince Ellie to let it go. In this version, the town's recovery from the horde attack, and the manpower needed for that, is also an issue that does not exist in the game. Tommy convinces Ellie to wait one day and then leaves for Seattle himself in the middle of the night, ahead of her and without telling Maria, in an attempt to obviate Ellie’s objectives so that she will stay in Jackson and be safe. Maria catches Ellie and Dina before they escape, but relents and lets Ellie leave in the hopes she can keep Tommy safe. No evidence yet Tommy is going to Seattle in this version. In the game, Dina comes along because she has fallen in love with Ellie. In the show she comes because she was also attacked by the Wolves and she is close with Joel, unlike in the game. She says "I loved him too you know."

Joel's grave is right near his house in a cemetery in the game, vs. 10 miles outside of town in the series. As the gamer you have to walk from the cemetery to his house so that made sense they were close, but not clear why they buried everybody away from the town, including Joel. There are no spores in the series so there is no risk of getting infected from dead bodies.

Seth does not appear again after giving Ellie and Jessie sandwiches the day after the dance. In this version, he fights for Ellie and a group to go to Seattle and even gives her and Dina supplies. Ellie never accepts his apology in the game.

In the game there is a scene between Dina and Ellie when they are holed up in the storm before Joel’s death (it was Ellie and Jessie in this version), they discuss their kiss from the dance, Ellie gets mad at Dina's rating of their kiss (instead of the other way around). The discussion of their kiss was moved to a tent scene on the journey to Seattle. (We read in Ellie's journal about some of their adventures on the way to Seattle but don't see any of them). The rest of the scene did not get brought along, in particular the discussion they have about their scars, and Ellie explains her arm scar and tattoo and tell Dina she is immune (Dina doesn't believe her). This is important because from the previews this looks like this will come into play in the next episode.

On the way to Seattle, Ellie and Dina talk about the first people they killed. This is in the game, but whereas in the game the first person she killed was a hunter to save Joel in Pittsburgh / Kansas City, in the series she killed Riley after they got infected, and says it's too effed up to talk about, so talks about when she saved Joel from a kid/raider in Kansas City.

Ellie and Dina come across the Scars/Seraphites before any Wolves. In the game they only hear and read about the Scars at first but do not encounter any before the Wolves. Dina gets sick from the smell of the decaying Seraphite bodies, whereas it's a decaying horse that makes her vomit in the game (will matter later).

The Wolves have tanks in this version. They're armed to teeth in the game but do not have military vehicles.

Ellie confirms to Gail that she did not talk to Joel after the dance and does not appear to be lying. So the conversation Joel and Ellie have in the game (which would not make sense to show yet which is why they omitted it in the series) after their fight at the dance apparently does not happen in this version, and the last thing Ellie said to Joel is that she doesn't need his help. In the game they have a meaningful conversation after this on his porch, but in the game she just glares at him and walks by.


This was a good episode, not as good as the first 2, but a needed interlude to see Ellie deal with her trauma, and a bridge before the chaos coming in Seattle!
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Old 05-29-2025, 11:30 PM   #2391
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Aug 2015
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4.
[Show spoiler]This episode covers Day 1 of Seattle, the game also breaks up Seattle into days. Ellie and Dina seek out the WLF in hope of finding Abby and her friends. They end up getting attacked, escape to the tunnels, run from a horde of infected, Ellie is bit again, and after Dina almost shoots her they confess their feelings for each other.

There's some stuff I like and dislike in this episode. First let's get to the serenade. This is my favorite moment from the game, and I consider it the “giraffe” moment, for this game, harkening back to Ellie and Joel seeing the giraffes in Salt Lake in Season 1 (and they contemplate stopping the journey and going back to Jackson). One big difference is that in the game Ellie and Dina are already in a relationship. In this episode, the event serves to solidify Dina’s burgeoning feelings for Ellie. I am glad they attempted this scene but unfortunately I don't feel they pulled it off, unlike the giraffe scene in the show, which I thought did the game justice.

However, it was still a nice scene and I will try to approach it again with an open mind when I rewatch the episode. It unfortunately had a lot to live up to for me. If curious this is the scene from the game:
youtube.com/watch?v=jU3wD1XBOks
Obviously Bella is not as good a singer as Ashley Johnson, even toning down her talent, but I think we can look past this as there is no reason to think Ellie would be a naturally good singer, and the key thing here is how well she can now play the guitar, and Bella did pull that off.

This is the first time we've seen Ellie play the guitar in the show. In the game, her guitar playing is a running theme and we see Joel teaching her and helping her with the guitar in flashbacks. But Dina references that Joel taught her well, and Ellie says, “He did.” There is no discussion of the night at a campfire back in Jackson, when Dina says Ellie should have kissed her then, and Ellie says she wanted to. But this would not make sense at this point in the show, since they have not kissed yet, and this scene serves to furthering their slow burn romance.

It is somewhat unfortunate that the scene is missable in the game, however, I think most fans are aware of it by now, even if they initially missed it.

The flashback to 2018, 15 years after the outbreak, was interesting. Isaac was in FEDRA (the military government) and kills his whole group to join the WLF, bringing along one soldier whom we later see becomes a diehard supporter of Isaac and his brutal treatment of the Scars. I don't recall from the game any info that Isaac was ever in FEDRA, and I thought he started the WLF. Nonetheless this shows us how ruthless he can be. Isaac is being played by the same actor from the game, the only other character who has done so is Marlene from season 1. Josh Peck is a guest star in this scene, one of the bigger names that's been in the series.

I am glad they ported over the tank scene, and Ellie tells us all about the Apollo 1 disaster. Her knowledge of space will play a role later. The dialog here was almost cut and paste from the game.

I loved the scene in the TV station. This is one of the hardest parts of the game to stealth, though I managed to do it on my recent replay. The way the Wolves fanned out and were searching for somebody, anybody, looked exactly how these stealth scenes are set up in the game. It's the first time the series has shown a stealth scene like this. Ellie knifes a guy in stealth in the exact same motion she does in the game. I loved that. So this whole scene is a nod to the gamers. Also, the hanging Wolves, disemboweled by the Scars, was stomach churning to look at, and it's our first clue that the Seraphites can be just as brutal as the Wolves in this cycle of violence.

Along those lines, the Subway scene was also pretty faithful to the game, with the Wolves again stalking the girls until they get attacked by the infected. In this version the flares attract the infected via the mycelium network. Ellie and Dina's multiple encounters with the infected is replaced by a thrilling escape sequence where they are pursued through 3 separate train cars. But it still ends with them running from a horde and reaching a turnstile, this time with Dina getting stuck instead of Ellie.

The love scene from occurred before Joel's death in the game has now been ported over to after the moment Dina accepts that Ellie is immune. This was pretty well done, but maybe went on a little long. This was maybe necessary though, since it's the first time they've been together in the series.

The dilapidated theater in which Ellie and Dina hole up looked really good. Also, I liked that Weston's Pharmacy made an appearance. Dina finds pregnancy kits there.

The Pride poster with rainbows from the bookstore (accompanied by some dirty jokes from Dina) is replaced by various Pride flags they find throughout downtown Seattle, but they don't know what they mean since the Outbreak occurred in 2003 in the series vs. 2013 in the game. Anyway, it was nice that made it in.

I liked that Isaac and the Scar referenced the true and cannot agree who broke it or why, a running theme in the game. The Scar says that everyday another Wolf becomes a Seraphite, which we later hear a significant character in the game say.

The Seraphite religion is fleshed out a little bit more, we hear more about the prophet/founder, how some believe she had supernatural powers, the Scar says she guides/protects us, and Ellie & Dina also find a "Feel Her Love" sign and anther Searphite symbol.

Ellie held out her hand in an attempt to convince Dina she is not infected, this harkens back to the motion she had to do daily for the Fireflies in Season 1 Ep 1. That was pretty cool.



Significant differences from the game:

The entire sequence in which Ellie and Dina have to find gas to pass a series of gates to get to the Serevena hotel is removed. This was mainly for gameplay.

The entire sequence in which Ellie and Dina are attacked on sight by the Wolves, Ellie is captured and saved by Dina, and they escape the school together, is removed. The sequence is mostly for gameplay anyway but is one of the most tense scenes in the game. Ellie kills Jordan in this scene, marking the death of the first WLF member who helped kill Joel, but Jordan is not a character in this game so this does not happen. We also lose an interesting discussion between Ellie and Dina about why the WLF members let them Ellie live after killing Joel. This matters later, but it's not in this version.

In the game, Ellie and Dina find Leah, who helped kill Joel, already dead at the TV station, and they find pictures of Manny, Norah, Mel, Owen, and Abby. But Leah is not a character in this version so this does not happen. So now in both the game and the series, it’s just 5 left from the group that killed Joel are still alive. In this version, they don't need the pictures because Dina remembers everyone's names, Tommy was knocked out before any names were said in the game.

Ellie and Dina do not find all the WLF carnage left by Tommy, who left a day ahead of them in the game. Not clear yet if Tommy is in or coming to Seattle in this version.

Ellie and Dina wait until nightfall, with good reason, to approach the TV station. They go straight for it in daytime in the game.

At the turnstile, Ellie lets herself get bit to save Dina. She immediately believes Ellie is infected. In the game, they go through a section of the tunnels with spores, Ellie falls and her mask breaks, Dina tries to share hers but Ellie refuses and reminds her she's immune. (In the game, Ellie told Dina she was immune in the love scene, which occurs right before Joel's death, Dina thought she was pulling her leg.) Since spores are not in the show , this does not happen. Instead Ellie persuades Dina to let her live through the night, and subsequently Dina is convinced that Ellie is immune when the bite does not worsen.

In the game, when Dina tells Ellie she is pregnant, it sparks an awkward fight between them, which I never liked. In this version, it is replaced by them kissing and falling into each other's arms, subsequently expressing their love for each other. In the game, they have been lovers for weeks. The discussion they had weeks ago in the game, about Ellie's chemical burn and covering tattoo, happens now.

Ellie and Dina find some of the WLF’s Walkie Talkies at the TV station which is how they find out where the WLF are stationed. In the game, they have to find power for and fix up a radio.

In the game, Dina is either sick or so weak from her pregnancy she cannot continue on after Day 1. In this version, it appears Ellie convinces her to sit out on the action because she is worried about her and the baby. In the game, this has a gameplay purpose, so that Ellie has to start fighting alone without a partner.

Ellie has now been bit 4 times in the show, vs. only one at this point in the game.

No Shambler infected in the show, yet.



This episode wasn’t as good as I was hoping. Probably the weakest of the season so far. I’m mostly not a fan of Ellie and Dina’s romance being delayed to this point, but it does mean their fight in the game is avoided. I guess there are good reasons for doing it like this in the show. I was also hoping for more encounters with the WLF and infected, though what we got was really solid.


5.
[Show spoiler]This episode covers Day 2 in Seattle, Ellie and Dina set out to find the hospital Nora is in. After getting attacked by Stalkers, Jessie saves her and Dina. They have to escape the Seraphites, and Ellie finally confronts Nora, who had restrained her while Joel was being killed.

This episode was pretty good and mostly faithful to the corresponding set of events in the game. I definitely thought it was an improvement over the previous episode.

The starting scene with Hanrahan (a WLF lieutenant with whom Isaac joined up with in the flashback in the last episode) was pretty interesting, and we're told the basement of the hospital is where they took the infected after Outbreak Day. We don't find that out until later in the game. The basement is "rough" as we're told in the game. It turns out this area has spores, which can infect through the air, and is our first introduction to them in the series. (They are a staple in the game.) We see Elise who had to make the decision to seal off her own son Leon in the basement. We see Leon later when Ellie comes across him. These characters aren't in the game, but it was interesting to see someone who made the opposite decision Joel did, in sacrificing her own child for the good of others, vs. killing others to save a loved one.

I liked the scene with Dina and Ellie teasing other abut Math and their intellectual abilities.

I liked the scene where Ellie plays the Pearl Jam song "Future Days" in the theater. I thought we might get the birthday flashback episode at this point…turns out it's coming next week. (Not a spoiler, it's in the preview and the end of the episode shows it's coming next.) This song comes back up over and over again in the game, and we might find out it's significance in the series soon too. It's a bit of a contradiction though, since the outbreak was 2003 in the series, 10 years before the song came out. In the game, the outbreak is weeks after the song's release and Joel remembers it well. In this version, maybe we're going to go with Joel wrote the song himself or something. (Or just ignore the timeline issue, I guess.)

Dina brought up the Scars don't use electricity, for religious reasons. We find this out in the game too, though later, and we're told exceptions are made for the warriors.

Dina explains why she joined Ellie in going to Seattle, because of what a Raider/Hunter did to her mom and sister. (There's also the fact she with Joel when he died, though knocked out.) It was good to hear this though, to flesh out why she's there and make it believable. (In the game she came because she's an Ellie "groupie", as they call it.)

The scene with the stalkers was awesome. In the game you have to fight through a similar dilapidated building, as Ellie, with 8 stalkers, and you're alone, and it's very nerve wracking / terrifying. Ellie makes the decision to possibly sacrifice herself to save Dina...now it's Ellie that has to take care of Dina instead of the other way around. And she looks to be in a lot of trouble until Jessie steps in at the last moment, saving them and telling us Tommy came with him. Apparently they are there to bring Ellie back home.

The scenes with the Scars/Serpahites were eerily similar to the game. We find out Isaac is planning something from the Wolf they hang. This will matter later. The Scars use scythes and arrows and have attack & response whistles that sound exactly like they do in the game. Ellie manages to slip away from them pretty easily though, and she infiltrates the hospital barely batting an eyelash. I wish she would have had to earn those victories a little bit, maybe having to take out at least a couple Scars or Wolves. I liked that the soldiers have dogs though and one of them detected her. That's again a nod to the game as the Wolves' dogs play a big role in action scenes in the game and constantly break your stealth when they smell you.

The spores in the basement looked incredible, great special (practical?) effects here. The torture scene with Nora was very well done and I think answers the question whether Bella Ramsey can pull off terrifying, they can! The discussion between Ellie and Nora played out mostly as it does in the game, with some differences I'll mention below. I liked that they made you think at first that Nora is haunted by what she did to Joel and regrets that. She appears sincere, but then uses that to both surprise Ellie, to escape, and also to dig the knife in deeper.

I liked the Pearl Jam song "Present Tense" that played in the credits, as a further nod to Pearl Jam.




Significant differences from the game:

Dina joins Ellie on day 2 in this version. In the game she is sick or struggling hard with the pregnancy and stays behind. But this is mainly a mechanic to force the player to fight alone as Ellie, without a sidekick. Story wise that didn't make any sense so I'm glad Dina tagged along.

In the game Dina says if she had the person who killed her sister tied up in a chair, she would torture them. In the show, Dina (at age 8) came back before the killer had left and took him out. And she tells Ellie what happened to Joel should never happen to anyone regardless of what they did.

In the game, Ellie sets out twice by herself on Day 2. The first time she infiltrates the Wolves in a suburb of Seattle. Then she comes across Jessie randomly, who came all by himself, and is not mad at her, but explains he couldn't let her do this alone which is why he came. Then they go back to the theater to leave Jessie with Dina and Ellie sets out again for the hospital, then has various encountered with the infected including the stalker building. In the show, Jessie serves as a sort of deus ex machine, saving Ellie when she's about to die. He explains Tommy came with him and they split up. Jessie is mad at Ellie for coming to Seattle.

In the game, Tommy came to Seattle out ahead of Ellie and Dina and they've been following his trail of carnage. Dina does not get shot with an arrow from a Scar because she stayed at the theater.

Again many fight and action scenes are cut out for pacing and time, and to make Ellie's trek through Seattle more realistic. But it does make it somewhat awkward how she immediately stumbles upon Nora (who conveniently happens to be alone) when she gets to the hospital. In the game she has to stealth (or fight) her way in, and find out where Nora is, so finding her is earned by the player.

The wolves do not follow Norah and Ellie to the basement because no one has gas masks in this version. It does mean we do not get an awesome battle scene between Wolves and Infected, though we did get one last episode.

Ellie has to turn on the lights in the hospital basement. In the game they are already on. (Significance of this will matter later.)

Norah tells Ellie explicitly that Joel killed Abby's father. In the game it is implied it maybe took place off screen, but we don't witness it. Ellie says she already knew that, which we also don't see in the game. Though the next scene in the game is a flashback that fleshes this out somewhat. In the game Nora says there's no reason to turn on her friend (Abby) because she's dead anyway, from the spores. Ellie says she can make Nora’s death quick, or she can make it so much worse. I wish those lines would have made it in on the show. The rest of their conversations, both on the first floor and in the basement, reflect the game pretty well.

Still no sign of Shambler infected. It may be the case they're not going to be in the show but they've played a big role at this point in the 2nd game. The stalkers (which are not new in the games) appear to be usurping that role. I'll stop mentioning them though.

Spores are new in the series. In the game they’ve been an alternate way of being infected through the entire story. Everyone has gas masks so they can pass through underground areas or parts of buildings with spores, without getting infected.




The next episode, which looks to be a Joel and Ellie flashback, is going to be really good and should have some other fan favorite scenes for the game. I think this episode was a pretty good adaptation of Day 2 Seattle.


6.
[Show spoiler]Episode 6 is the "bottle" episode for the season. I thought this was definitely the best episode so far this season, and possibly for the series so far. Part of that is because several scenes are similar, but a totally different take on the corresponding scenes from the game. It also takes many powerful moments in the game, that are split up and spread out, and lays them all out to us at once. I’m not even going to try and keep this one short, I have too much to say. Skim as desired.

As this is the bottle episode, it consists of events not in the main timeline of the season. In season 1, episodes 3 (Bill and Frank) and episode 7 (Ellie and Riley) could be considered bottle episodes.

Ellie and Joel are back together at the end of the main credits! Yes! For one episode only though.

I want to go through each flashback 1 by 1, and I think they were all pretty important.

The flashback to Joel as a kid was really interesting, we've never seen any events from Joel’s life before Outbreak Day, and at most have a handful of stories (from the game) from before that time. As a teenager, Joel acts as a shield for Tommy from their father's abusive wrath, after Tommy gets in some trouble with drugs. But instead of hitting Joel, the father says that he has tried to do better than their grandfather did, and hopes Joel will do even better when he has a kid. So this is foreshadowing of the relationship Joel has with Ellie, and why he does what he does to save her.

After this, we move into a series of "birthday" flashbacks, featuring Joel and Ellie in their time at Jackson. In the first one, Ellie has just burned her bite scar to try and hide it. Joel is very concerned and calls her "baby girl", harkening back to what he called Sarah right before she died, and what he called Ellie after she had been attacked by and killed David (the cannibal). Joel makes a guitar for Ellie, complete with a moth embossed. And he plays Pearl Jam's "Future Days", which has become one of my favorite songs. Recall Joel promised in E1E9 to teach Ellie how to play guitar. We'll ignore, I suppose, the fact the song came out on 2013 (when the outbreak occurs in the game) but the Outbreak was in 2003 in the series. I mentioned this in the notes for the previous episode. It really is the perfect song for Joel to convey his feelings for Ellie, so I'm partly glad they decided to use that, even if it doesn't make sense that Joel knows the song. It was a nice touch that he needs a minute to remember how it goes before he starts playing it, almost as if he wrote it himself (maybe he did!). I also thought it was adorable that Ellie dived right into her birthday cake, that Joel had Seth make, not evening waiting for him to get utensils. I also liked that we saw Ellie has the A-ha cassette, which is how she learned “Take On Me”, to serenade Dina in episode 4.

The next flashback a year later recreates the iconic museum sequence from the game. I thought this part was really well done and faithful adaptation. It starts with Ellie trying to guess what Joel's birthday surprise is and being flabbergasted by the T-rex statue. I loved how she immediately climbed it and declared "I'm on a mf dinosaur". In the game you can jump off of it into the water below, I kind of wish they kept that in. They go right to the space section…we know from S1E6 Ellie is fascinated by space and wishes she could go to the moon, and also from episode 4 that she has lots of knowledge of the Apollo missions. The orrery, that turns the planets, was pretty cool. You can do that in the game too. The longest I've done it for is about 10 minutes to get Neptune to move about an inch. Of course the Apollo launch sequence scene is very special. In the making of segment for this episode, we learn from game creator Neil Druckmann that series creator Craig Mazin wanted that scene to flow *exactly* the way it is in the game. And it is faithful to a T, including Joel telling her to get a helmet, to surprising her with the countdown cassette that "took a mighty effort to find", and Ellie zoning out imagining what it would be like for the capsule to launch, how it would shake and reverberate, and with Joel asking if he did ok (duhh!). I know this is a fan favorite scene from the game and they adapted it very well. At the very end, when Ellie & Joel are trekking back through the woods, Ellie sees fireflies buzzing around. This is foreshadowing, and starts her down the path of questioning Joel's big lie.

Another year later Joel walks in out Ellie and Cat fooling around. We know from episode 1 this season, Dina said Cat and Ellie used to date. We also read some about Cat in Ellie's journal in the game, and that she gave Ellie her tattoo, which is to cover the burn & bite mark. We saw Cat in episode 1, she was the patrol leader, when Ellie came across a stalker in the supermarket. But Joel is very upset by finding them together, both that Ellie had someone over under his nose, and apparently also that it's a girl Ellie has over. He says she's not “being herself”. Ellie is rightfully incredulous and says it wasn't an experiment. This is apparently the first time Joel has realized Ellie could be gay. In the previous flashback, he asked Ellie if she liked Jessie and she just laughed at him. Because of Joel’s reaction, Ellie wants tries to move into the garage, and Joel decides it would be good if she has her own space. He asks her about her moth drawings, and Ellie says they are symbolic. Joel asks Gail what the moths mean, and she says they represent death. Later we see on one of the drawings Ellie wrote "You have a greater purpose." This is more foreshadowing, apparently Ellie has been dwelling on the thought that she was supposed to die in the hospital in Salt Lake, and that her death could matter.

Two more years later, Ellie is working up the courage to ask Joel exactly what happened at the hospital, how they survived, and why did everyone else there die. Before she gets the chance, Joel comes by and announces he's decided to finally let her go on patrol. Soon after, they hear over the radio that Eugene is in trouble, and though Joel wants Ellie to go back, she insists on coming along…it is patrol and they are partners. In what follows, we finally find out definitively what happened to Eugene. We know from episode 1 that Joel killed Eugene (Gail said this), and in episode 2, Jessie says Joel had to "put him down," implying Eugen was infected. When it was clear the Eugene is a much bigger character int he series in the game, fans thought they might have a bottle episode around Eugene, similar to the Bill & Frank back story episode from season 1. I am glad we get to see how Eugene died. But this serves as the key to Ellie realizing that Joel lied to her about what happened in the hospital. Eugene is, in fact, infected, and does need to be put down, but he pleads with Joel & Ellie to let him see Gail one last time. Harkening back to the first episode of the series, Ellie asks him to put out his arm and count to 10, without twitching, as she had to do for the Fireflies to show she was not turning, and was immune. Joel promises he won't kill Eugene until he can see Gail, saying "I promise.” But when Ellie is getting the horses, he marches Eugene down to a Lake and shoots him. Ellie is furious and tells Gail exactly what happened, and looks at Joel and says "You SWORE." You can see it in her face this about more than just Eugene. At the end of the first season, Ellie said "Swear to me, Swear to me that everything that you said about the Fireflies is true" and Joel replied "I swear". Now she has proof that Joel can make a promise to her face and lie. This was the last bit of evidence she needed to know that Joel lied about what happened at the hospital -- his explanation never made sense, and now she knows. And moreover, if Joel had let her die, Eugene wouldn't have had to die at all. No one would get infected any more.

By the way, Eugene was brilliantly played by Joe Pantoliano. Like Josh Peck, that’s another major guest appearance I had no idea was coming.

The last flashback is an expansion of the events of the first episode, starting at the dance on New year's Eve, Ellie is dancing with Dina, Joel is with Tommy and Maria, and Maria apologizes for calling him a refugee earlier in the day (when she had pressured him to build faster so they could let more people in the settlement). She tells Joel he is a valued member of the community, he's family. Then Seth calls Ellie and Dina slur and he pushes, Seth to the ground, and Ellie gets mad at him for interfering. It wasn't clear then why she was so upset with Joel, but now we know.

Then afterwards we see Ellie glaring at Joel on the porch, which is where it left off in Episode 1, but now we see she comes back to talk to him. I liked that they brought up Joel's coffee addiction here, we saw in Episode 3 Ellie left coffee beans at his grave. Anyway, what follows might be the most powerful scene in the whole series.

After Joel tries to make some chit chat Dina to soften the mood (says Dina would be lucky to have Ellie, yes!) Ellie says he's such an *******. She says he lied to her about Eugene, knowing he would kill him, and it was the same look he gave her when he swore that the Fireflies could not make a cure from her. She says he has one more chance to tell the truth or they're done. Joel acknowledges there were no other immune people, no Raiders/Hunters attacked the hospital, that he killed everyone there, and that he also killed Marlene. He's so ashamed, both of his actions and his lie, that he cannot bring himself to say anything, only nod yes or no. He explains to Ellie that making a cure would have killed her. (Recall in the last episode of the first season, it felt like Joel almost knew this ahead of time, in the giraffe scene, he tried to get Ellie to return to Jackson with him, when they were already there, but Ellie insisted they had come too far not to see it through.) Ellie replies, then she was supposed to die, that was her purpose, and her life would have mattered. There would be a cure, and Joel took that from her, and from everyone. Joel says he'll pay the price for that, but if he had it over he would do the same thing, because he loves her. And someday, if she has a kid, Ellie will understand, and hopefully she'll do a little better than he did, harkening back to what his father told him in the opening flashback.

And now we know why Ellie is so eager to raise a child with Dina, a child that's not even hers, because she wants to carry forward this mission Joel has given her, that he tried to do with her, a child who wasn't even his own. Ellie says she doesn't think she can forgive Joel, but she would like to try. And as we saw in the second episode, the next day she wanted to go on patrol with Jol, to start mending the relationship, but he had already left with Dina, to let Ellie sleep in, and to give her space. And that was the day he died. The porch scene is the last conversation Ellie and Joel have. Really amazing scene, everyone nailed it, especially Pedro and Bella, and Druckmann who directed it.

The episode ends with Ellie returning to the theater, having killed Nora, with hate on her face. And now we realize why she has been pursuing this revenge quest with such vigor and determination.

Writing all of this up, I feel even more convinced this was the best episode of the series. And I doubt next week will top it. But we'll see what next, and the last, season brings.



Significant differences from the game:

This episode depicts 5 separate flashbacks from the game, with some events and dialog moves around, some events cut entirely, and several new scenes as well. The flashbacks are spread out over the entire length of the game, and not told all at once within an hour, as they are in the show. In the game, this works well. We don't know Ellie was mad at Joel until *after* Nora is killed. We’re kept completely in the dark on that. We think their father-daughter bond strengthened over time, and that is why she want revenge so strongly. So the flashbacks have been slowly giving us pieces of evidence as to what's going on. Also, in the game, we find out at this point Abby was Firefly, but do not yet know why she wanted to kill Joel. Of course, in the show, we learned a long time ago why Abby wanted to kill Joel.

In the game, the first flashback is the museum sequence. The second flashback involves Tommy teaching Ellie how to snipe (we saw part of this in Episode 1 with them sniping and talking about the mechanics of sniping, though it wasn't in a flashback), then Ellie and Joel go on patrol and come across some infected teenager from Jackson. In the third flashback, Ellie returns to the Salt Lake hospital and confronts Joel over his lies, after he catches up with her. The fourth flashback (which happens much later in the game) is the dance scene, shortly followed by the porch scene (the firth flashback).

The flashback to Joel's childhood does not occur nor is any aspect of Joel's childhood or father ever mentioned.

The first birthday flashback does not occur at all, including the interaction between Seth and Joel trading, Legos for a cake and such. However, we do see Joel giving Ellie a guitar, shortly after they arrive at Jackson, and he teacher her the Pearl Jam song. This is not a flashback though, the 2nd game picks up just after the end of the first game, then zooms to 4 years later. Ellie is already living in a garage though, so she never "moved out".

The museum sequence is truncated for time & spacing, and to remove gameplay elements. In the game, there's a sequence where they have to swim to the museum. After arriving, there is a whole dinosaur exhibit they explore, and they rib each other the whole time, and it's really seeing them poke fun at each other. (We just get the T-rex portion of this in the show, though it's awesome.) In the space exhibit, Ellie shows off all of her space knowledge, which we unfortunately don't get in the show, though she has made it clear in other episodes she knows a lot about space. Afterwards, they go to another part of the museum, but the door is blocked and Joel has to boost her up. So she is alone in the next exhibit. She thinks she hears some infected, but it turns out to be a wild pig and Joel rescues her. But while she was alone, she finds notes from a family betrayed by the fireflies, and sees their corpses. This starts her down the path of questioning Joel big lie. In the show, she just sees fireflies buzzing in the woods.

As mentioned there is a flash back with Ellie and Joel on patrol that is cut out completely. We can maybe say this is replaced by the Eugene flashback, but they are pretty different. In the game, after Tommy teaches Ellie about sniping, they relieve Joel at a lookout. Then Joel and Ellie leave together to find new strings for her guitar. Joel says she's been doing well in group patrols and Jessie has recommended her for paired patrols. In the show, it's still a year later before Joel lets her patrol at all. They come across a hotel filled with spores and fight through it, having to kill a bloater at the end. It's at this time that Joel talks about Jessie and Dina and that he thinks Jessie could have feeling her. After this, they have to kill a clicker, and it turns out he was a teenager from Jackson. He and his girlfriend got infected, and he killed her, but couldn't bring himself to commit suicide, so he turned, and has been stuck in the hotel as a clicker every since. After Joel says they have to get the bodies back to Jackson, Ellie confronts him about the hospital. She asks why did he pull her out when she was still unconscious. Joel says he let the Fireflies run some tests, and when they were useless he got her out of there. (In the game, Joel never tells Ellie the hospital was attacked by Hunters/Raiders, because she was never awake at any point while in the hospital, as she is in the show.)

In the next flashback in the game, Ellie takes off in the middle of the night to return to the hospital in Utah, leaving a note behind for Joel. Once there, she finds a journal from the Fireflies that makes it clear they could make a cure from her, but that the only person who could do it was now dead. Joel comes after her and arrives at the hospital. This is when Ellie gives him one more chance to tell the truth. If he does, she says she'll go back to Jackson, but if he lies again, he'll never see her again. Joel says making a cure would have killed her. Ellie is stunned and in disbelief. She apparently never believed it was really possible that Joel had lied, even if she somehow knew. She says she'll go back to Jackson, but she and Joel are “done.”

The flashback with Eugene does not occur at all. In the game, Eugene died of natural causes, and his only purpose doe the story is that he built the underground hideout where Ellie and Dina fall in love (which happens before Joel dies). I do like that they fleshed out Eugene more in the show. And this flashback was pretty powerful. However, this means that in the show, the reason Ellie is mad at Joel is 1.) for killing Eugene the way he did and 2.) for his lie about the hospital. But she doesn't know with certainty yet that he did lie about the latter. In the game, she is mad at him solely because of his lie, and she does know with certainty that he lied, because he confirmed it.

The porch scene takes place mostly the way it does in the show. The initial part with Ellie glaring at him and walking away is not in the game. But in the show, this was misdirection, to make us think Ellie never got a chance to put things right with Joel because his murder, and that her final words to him were "I can take care of myself!" at the dance. Other than that, in the game Joel has already admitted he lied, so the dialog relating to him lying already took place at the Salt Lake flashback.

Joel is never mad at or in disbelief that Ellie is gay. We go from him being clueless that she is (insisting Jessie likes her), to defending her honor when Seth calls her a slur.

Though the moths are a theme throughout the game, their meaning is never explained explicitly.



Really, really good episode. And I'm looking forward to the season finale next week, and where they will end things and if it will be a cliffhanger. Obviously in the game you can just keep playing to see how things turn out, but we will have a long break after this finale.


7.
[Show spoiler]In the season finale episode, Ellie makes one last push to find Abby, is almost killed along the way by the Scars, and fights with and makes up with Jesse, accidentally kills Mel & Owen. She finally gets a confrontation with Abby, and it ends on a massive cliffhanger, with hints we're about to follow Abby's story leading up to this point in the saga.

Day 3 Seattle is highly abbreviated from the game. But we do get some nice additions. However, I did think it was too fast paced for the amount of ground covered. It's not as powerful as I was hoping it would be and I think we could have spent more time with Ellie's trek to the aquarium. Some scenes were really good though and emotionally heavy.

But what this episode did show us is just how far Ellie has fallen, and she knows it. She's had a singular focus on finding and killing Abby, to the exclusion or more pressing concerns, e.g. Dina's health and rescuing Tommy. When Mel asks her to cut the baby out and Ellie doesn't know what to do, she realizes she is helpless and has lost all sense of who she is, and can only sit there and sob.

Later, Ellie admits to Tommy that Abby will get to live, and it will just have to be that way. She has to let it go. To that point, after Jesse is shot she makes the decision to potentially sacrifice herself to Abby, in order to save Tommy and Dina. Unfortunately, we'll have to wait a long time to see how that turns out.

Recall that David (the cannibal), in season 1 Ep 7, said Ellie had a violent heart. And Gail in episode 3 this season implied that Ellie is a psychopath, that it's in her nature, and it can't be changed. We saw how that played out, with Ellie torturing Nora. And Ellie tells Dina she thought it would be hard, but it was actually really easy. Maybe it's good that she realized by the end of the episode that she's turning into an instrument of vengeance, and she doesn't like it. Remember, the day before he died, Joel said that she hopes one day if Ellie has a kid he does a little better than he did. She realizes she's on a path to do worse.

I didn't like how much of a jerk Jesse is to Ellie in this episode. We got a taste of that in episode 5 too when he saved her and Dina but was angry that they came to Seattle. In the game he is sympathetic to their cause. However, it did make for a nice moment at the end when Jesse realizes that, despite her recklessness, Ellie would go to the ends of the Earth to save him if needed, and she replies that she would. I see it as his attempt at an apology for how he’s treated her the past 2 days.

I liked that we got to see some additional Isaac scenes including his plans to attack the Scar/Seraphite island, And he mentions how Abby was missing, and that he's upset about it because he wanted Abby to leave the group after he dies (likely that night, he says). I also liked that we saw Sergeant Park again from episode 5.

The scene with Ellie and Jesse witnessing the wolves attacking a Scar teenager was interesting. Jesse said these people are killing each other and it's not their fight, and they should stay out of this conflict, and this city. Ellie thought they shouldn't have let a kid just die in front of them like that. This probably also a part of why she's so emotional when Mel and her baby die.

I loved the scenes in the storm with Ellie on the skiff. The rain and thunder sounded amazing in my headphones. This was really well done. I also liked they included the giant wave that wipes her out, as in the game.

The scene with Ellie almost being gutted and hanged by the scars was pretty tense and I didn't know how she was going to get out of it. (This is not in the game.) She was saved by the Wolves' attack on the Seraphite island. The warning horn is harrowing and sounds exactly as it does in the game.

The scene with Mel and Owen was pretty powerful, and the addition of Mel pleading will Ellie to cut her baby out was heartbreaking. Bella Ramsey's performance was incredible. I could feel Ellie's sense of helplessness in this situation.

The final scene at the theater with Abby was very well done. Kaitlyn Dever's delivery of the lines "I let you live, I let you live, and you wasted it" cut like a knife. I could feel the ager in her face. This exceeded the delivery of the corresponding lines in the game.

I liked that Ellie was going to have Mel and Owen separately point to where Abby was on a map, a tactic she learned from Joel. But it didn't work out since Owen pulled a gun on her, and when Ellie shot back it killed Owen, and Mel was hit when the bullet passed through him.

I liked the scene with Dina bathing Ellie's back…a very sensual moment.

I liked that Jesse revealed he voted no in episode 3 to send a group of 16 citizens to Seattle to kill Abby. I suspected this based on his reservations in talking about the vote before it took place.





Significant differences from the game:

Dina was not shot with an arrow by the Scars in the game, because she stayed behind on Day 2. But her refusal to drink clues in Jesse she may be pregnant, who tricks Ellie in to confirming that. In the game, he just figures this Dina may be pregnant form her lethargy and asks Ellie if that’s the case (she says yes but don’t tell Dina he knows).

In the episode, Ellie tells Dina what Joel did at the hospital and why Abby wanted to kill him. In the game she never tells Dina this, at least not that we see. We're also not sure in the game if Ellie *ever* find s out that Abby's father was killed by Joel, though in the show Nora told Ellie this outright in episode 5.

As mentioned, Jesse is much nicer to Ellie in the game and wished they would have brought him along in the first place. He is a massive jerk to her in the show and mad that he had to come out to Seattle, to a war zone, to save her and Dina.

Jesse and Ellie do not come across a Seraphite teenager being attacked by Wolves. They have confrontation with infected and Wolves that are primarily gameplay related. It would have been nice if they included the Comics convention center they come across in the game, where Jesse explains to her that comic fans, like Ellie, would gather together. And Ellie says she they were born in the wrong time.

In the game, Norah told Ellie that Abby is at the aquarium. In the show, Ellie has to deduce this, as all Norah manages to say is Ferris wheel (which is at the aquarium).

When Ellie refuses to help Jesse find Tommy, and goes to the aquarium instead, the fight they have is much bigger than it is in the game. They argue about community (Jesse’s says his community is Jackson, Ellie says her was Joel), and what the bigger person should do. In the game, Ellie just tries to convince Jesse that Tommy is probably at the aquarium too, and Jesse is stunned she puts revenge about helping Tommy, but realizes there's no point in arguing with her and simply says, "I really hope you make it."

In the game, we don't find out at this point (Day 3) that Isaac is planning an attack on the Seraphite Island...we don't even know yet that they live on an island. We know Isaac has plans for something big but don't know what. We don't find out yet that Abby is AWOL from the Wolves and that Owen and Mel are missing too.

Ellie does not land on the Scar island (and almost get hanged and gutted) in the game, though apparently this was planned for the game and cut. So now it's in the show.

Ellie's fight with a bloater in an arcade, on the way to the aquarium, is cut entirely. I wish they made the episode 10 minutes longer and kept this in. We've had no infected in episodes 6 & 7.

In the game Tommy found a gold watch to bribe Maria when he returns, fearing her anger at him leaving Jackson. This doesn't happen in the show. Of course in the game Tommy also left for Seattle by himself ahead of Ellie in Dina, in hopes it would stop them from going. Jesse came later, after Dina and Ellie leave, not with Tommy.

In the game, Mel isn't killed by the same bullet that kills Owen. She attacks Ellie with a knife and then Ellie kills her and she dies quickly, no chance to say she’s pregnant. Owen then tells Ellie with his last breath that Mel is pregnant. Ellie is never asked to cut the baby out, never contemplates doing so, and is significantly less emotional about the events. She does not cry, though she struggles to breathe. Tommy finds her quickly so she does not have time to think about it for very long.

Ellie is not attacked by and does not kill the Owen & Mel's dog Alice. They may have cut this out since many gamers did not like having to kill a dog.

In the game, we don't hear a gunshot after Abby says she let them live and Ellie wasted it. It cuts immediately to a flashback of Abby at Salt Lake from the day her father dies. In the show, we hear a gunshot, and it cuts to Abby in the bookstore on Day 1 Seattle (2 days ago), and then we see the massive WLF presence at the Seattle football stadium. We might get the Salt Lake flashback later.

There seemed to be an attempt to imply the Seraphites have more than 1 prophet. Ellie and Jesse see another "Feel her Love" sign and Ellie if there's more than one of them (prophets? signs?). Not sure what she meant, but in the game there's definitely only one prophet.

Ellie's collection of superhero cards is recurring theme in the game, but it was never brought up once the whole season. In the first game, her Savage Starlight comic collection was a recurring theme and that did make it into the show in the first season.



This was a pretty good episode but I think too much happened in too little time. And I worry what show viewers, who haven't played the game, will make of the cliffhanger and cut back to Abby at the football stadium a few days earlier. But I loved how they played "Burden in My Hand" by Soundgarden during the credits. Anyway, the penultimate episode definitely bests this one, but given the narrative structure of the series so far, this was a decent way to end the season.



And here is the link to the corresponding post with all my notes for season 1.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...9&postcount=87

Last edited by emailking; 05-29-2025 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 05-29-2025, 11:51 PM   #2392
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Interesting Pascal is nominated for best actor in a leading role. Not sure how I feel about that being in fewer than half the episodes. I do think he would would deserve a best supporting nom.

I can't find any updated data on the ratings. Maybe we'll eventually know how many long tail viewers there were. Season 2 is averaging more than season 1 overall.

I have rewtached the finale now (so I've seen all 2 episodes twice now). I liked it a little less than I did on Sunday. There was one scene where Bella's reaction irked me that went past me Sunday. Otherwise I think they did a good job.

At the moment I think Season 1 is better however Season 2 is still really good. I don't agree with a lot of criticism it's getting in this thread. Or at least I feel it's overblown.

I'll watch it again when the discs release in the Fall.

Quote:
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Wow, I picked a great time to finally get a gaming console and The Last of Us Part I and Part II remastered, to start playing them for the first time. 'PlayStation Days of Play' just started today and they have the PS5 Pro for $50 off, the cheapest it's ever been at $649, plus Part I just dropped from $69.99 to $29.39! and Part II from $49.99 to $39.99. With tax and all, that's a $111.00 savings from yesterday's prices!

I almost bought the standard PS5, but after considering it for a day and then this discount popping up while I was deciding what to do, it seemed like divine providence, so I figured why not go with the PS5 Pro, and apparently both of these games are 'PS5 Pro Enhanced', which sounds promising from what I've read.

I know this is kind of off-topic for this thread, but I'm just so excited that I had to share! I've got the console mostly set up and ready to go, and the games are downloading now!
Great decision and you will not be disappointed lol.

The PS5 graphics for the first game are massive improvement over the PS4 version so I'm kind of glad you went with PS5 in the end lol.
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Old 05-30-2025, 01:26 AM   #2393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop_99 View Post
Thanks! I remember that, but I don't remember if Abby
[Show spoiler] shot Tommy in the back of the head during that final scene in Ellie's day 3, or did Abby do that in her day 3? I just want to know if they cut Tommy getting shot in the head or if it is done in a more believable fashion.
[Show spoiler]
Tommy ends up getting shot during the Abby and Ellie fight. That hasnt happened yet and as the other poster mentioned Lev is involved in that and we havent seen him either
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Old 05-30-2025, 04:33 AM   #2394
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Quote:
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[Show spoiler]
Tommy ends up getting shot during the Abby and Ellie fight. That hasnt happened yet and as the other poster mentioned Lev is involved in that and we havent seen him either
Thanks. I have not played that section of the game in 5 years, and I thought that moment happened in Ellie's day three.

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Old 05-30-2025, 05:50 AM   #2395
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Show Ellie masked a sadness. Thats her pain. Game Ellie was dark and was fueled by rage, which the show did not do a good job of portraying. The ways in which Joel's death impacted her are different. There's no denying that. She was hardened by that. She was always wrong but it was more beleivable that she'd be dead set on her revenge plan despite the odds against her in the game than here.

It felt like the writers wanted to give her a sympathetic edit on the show and I dont know why. For example wanting to save the Seraphite kid from the WLFs which would have stupid to intervene, not to mention it was a distraction from her current mission. IIve already mentioned similar sentiments with Mel's death. Its unfortunate that Ellie is being hated moe or Bella's acting and looks and not the character's action's which are less problematic here
Show Ellie is absolutely driven by the same rage. As I explained before, she covers it up. Doesn't let people in to see it. Uses humor to hide it. We see it when she's on her own. She needs to trust you deeply to let you see that pain. At least, until her mask starts to break once her trauma starts becoming overbearing, as we see in the finale, and will see more of later.
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Old 05-30-2025, 06:30 AM   #2396
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Show Ellie is absolutely driven by the same rage. As I explained before, she covers it up. Doesn't let people in to see it. Uses humor to hide it. We see it when she's on her own. She needs to trust you deeply to let you see that pain. At least, until her mask starts to break once her trauma starts becoming overbearing, as we see in the finale, and will see more of later.
They need a way to show that more and convey it to the audience, then. Like that scene in Smile when Sosie Bacon is standing in front of a mirror and literally just practicing putting on a face before going to her nephew's birthday party. Literally, anything. Smiling wide when Dina is looking at her, but when either turns away it quickly goes away.

Instead, we get her skipping up some stairs saying "Natural gas, bayybeee!"
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Old 05-30-2025, 08:56 AM   #2397
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I hate the argument of “well she’s masking her pain!”

Okay that’s fine. The show just did a horrendous job to showing that.

Then people say “go listen to the podcast!”

I shouldn’t have to listen to a podcast to understand anything. Show me now. And I did listen to the podcast. They act like they created the greatest piece of television on there.

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Old 05-30-2025, 10:13 AM   #2398
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I think the show did a fantastic job of showing that. My favorite example is when she exits the hospital room. How she's putting on a good face for Gail and then just watch her face as she's walking down the hallway. There are plenty of moments throughout the season where we see Ellie on her own and see how she acts differently there. The whole scene with Gail calling her a liar to Tommy was specifically to point out that disconnect. You don't need the podcast to recognize these things. Just pay attention.
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Old 05-30-2025, 12:07 PM   #2399
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Quote:
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The whole scene with Gail calling her a liar to Tommy was specifically to point out that disconnect. You don't need the podcast to recognize these things. Just pay attention.
Exactly, you don't need the podcast when you have a character who explains things right to the camera :P

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They act like the created the greatest piece of television on there.
It's obnoxious.
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Old 05-30-2025, 01:32 PM   #2400
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I think the show did a fantastic job of showing that. My favorite example is when she exits the hospital room. How she's putting on a good face for Gail and then just watch her face as she's walking down the hallway. There are plenty of moments throughout the season where we see Ellie on her own and see how she acts differently there. The whole scene with Gail calling her a liar to Tommy was specifically to point out that disconnect. You don't need the podcast to recognize these things. Just pay attention.
I'm going to pretend like those last three words of belittlement weren't said.

Yes, I'm aware of that scene and thought about it before posting. Ellie hides nothing from anybody. It's not just Gail who sees right through it. Dina and Jesse call her out on it immediately. The audience knows it as well. She was directed in those moments (even in conversation with Gail) to pull off the aesthetic of lying through your teeth. Any version of it is clearly a facade.

This is also a time before she is even informed of Joel's killers. One's focus would only become more pinpointed once you get closer to moments of being able to take revenge. From the moment the trek begins till the red room scene, the world viewing audience has described Ellie as going on a teenage camping trip.

I can defend some scenes as saying "These are all they chose to show. It's not like we see every time someone takes a shit either, do we?" But Bella was not directed or reminded that she needs instances of showing the audience that little bit of smiling through pain. Her directing is "Look and act happy," and then they can communicate through a podcast that she is masking pain.

A good moment of direction in looks saying a lot is in the flashback episode when Joel reveals the guitar to Ellie and explains how he put it together. Once he goes into techno-babble, she gives him this look of loving confusion. Or the porch scene when Ellie is going to find out about SLC, what Pedro does without a single word in conveying the "massive lump in throat" feel like he is going to confess his greatest sins shines right through.

Anyway, to each their own. I don't think Ellie needed to be a rage monster the entire time. She just needed to be more distracted when the time is right, not just when it's called cook or reminded about.
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Troll2fan (05-30-2025)
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