Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Minimalism seems to be a cinematic concept, so most movie's production designers like to show clutter-free living spaces.

Production designers also rarely show realistic living spaces. Have you modeled your home to look like a movie set?

Originally Posted by master gandhi

I also don't think major studios will be removing movies from our collections.

Let's look at the absurdity of that statement: All major studios will continue to provide every movie they've ever offered for the rest of your life.

You think because you paid $10 for a movie that means a studio will pay the expense of storing and streaming that movie for many decades? No company is going to continue to provide a title that hasn't been profitable in years.

[s_har]

It is one thing I don't see people discuss very often in digital VS physical discussions and that is stuff like clearance sales to get rid of surplus stock and competition (and as a result competitive pricing).

With physical media you basically got every store, and online store, on the planet available and that often leads to keeping prices at bay and often some really good bargains can be had. I've more than once picked up a physical copy of a fairly new release, digital code included, for half what it costs on iTunes.
With digital there is very limited competition compared to physical and never the need to get rid of surplus stock etc.

It's the same thing with games where a lot of big titles are made exclusive to one provider only (e.g Electronic Arts' games only being made available on Origin, not any of the other digital platforms), Steam being the one big platform dominating all others with almost no competition.
Same with consoles, if Playstation were to go all digital then all pricing, terms of conditions etc will be decided by Sony's own PSN store, suddenly the vast competition which has more than once made me buy fairly new games at a third or less than the cost of the digital copy from PSN is suddenly gone.
And as far as terms and conditions goes once there is only one provider it's basically 'our way or the highway'.

So competition is healthy and I honestly fear for what may happen in that regard if/when digital becomes the only format in the future. I think the truth is digital needs the competition from physical in order to be kept in line.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Production designers also rarely show realistic living spaces. Have you modeled your home to look like a movie set?


Let's look at the absurdity of that statement: All major studios will continue to provide every movie they've ever offered for the rest of your life.

You think because you paid $10 for a movie that means a studio will pay the expense of storing and streaming that movie for many decades? No company is going to continue to provide a title that hasn't been profitable in years.

My wife and I try to keep our clutter pretty low. I'm not modeling my living space off movies, but coincidentally our apartment manager thought our place was so presentable, she asked if she could use it to show prospective renters. So you could say we have a model apartment.

I'll be more specific with my other statement. I don't think major studios will be removing movies from our collections anytime soon. Does that mean not ever? No.

You would think that in a situation like Paramount losing the rights to the early Marvels (Iron Man 1/2, Thor, Captain America 1) would result in the codes no longer working (Iron Man 1 didn't have a code, I know) or the old copies being ripped from our collections. Wrong. They're DMA now. They do lack the special features, but that's about it. That's a positive story about digital which could have gone a different direction.

You could stand to be a little more optimistic. That's all.

[Falaskan]

I really don't think I'm getting depressed, but I really am not impressed by movies as much lately. A movie that I think is perfect, is few and far between anymore. So many of the popular films that've come out lately, (marvel, star wars, Jurassic World) I find enjoyable, but far from perfect. Very often I get this sense they're trying too hard to be funny, or in one way or the other, re-capture some sense of nostalgia.

With that said I am fine with digital copies of the majority of movies. I do think 4k streaming is amazing, but too be fair my internet isn't normally 4k capable, and discs do have a slight edge...but I think I am going to be going streaming more and more, and save the 4K and HD stuff for movies I love beyond belief!

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Falaskan

I really don't think I'm getting depressed, but I really am not impressed by movies as much lately. A movie that I think is perfect, is few and far between anymore. So many of the popular films that've come out lately, (marvel, star wars, Jurassic World) I find enjoyable, but far from perfect. Very often I get this sense they're trying too hard to be funny, or in one way or the other, re-capture some sense of nostalgia.

With that said I am fine with digital copies of the majority of movies. I do think 4k streaming is amazing, but too be fair my internet isn't normally 4k capable, and discs do have a slight edge...but I think I am going to be going streaming more and more, and save the 4K and HD stuff for movies I love beyond belief!

You know I have had the exact same feeling with the last few movies I have seen in theaters. I watched rouge one doctor strange and a few other movies and none none of them seemed perfect to me (I would rate them at it was an ok movie so why did I not really enjoy it at best). I think its just that studios haven't made to many amazing films this year. The only 2 2016 movies I saw that I can say I enjoyed in entirety are zootopia and deadpool so perhaps this was simply a bad year for movies.

This is a problem for both physical media and streaming media but physical media is harder hit since digital is still a young enough format to live off films of the past that people are re-buying.

[whipnet]

Most Hollywood movies are only worth $2-$3, so for me this is where digital comes in handy. Being able to buy codes for cheap instead of renting is most of my digital collection. Every now and then a good movie comes out (Arrival) and I have no problem paying full price for the BD. But for 95% of new movies coming out, they are only worth a couple of bucks to me.

*

[soaptrail]

Originally Posted by whipnet

Most Hollywood movies are only worth $2-$3, so for me this is where digital comes in handy. Being able to buy codes for cheap instead of renting is most of my digital collection. Every now and then a good movie comes out (Arrival) and I have no problem paying full price for the BD. But for 95% of new movies coming out, they are only worth a couple of bucks to me.

*

Agreed, i just wish the audio was better on digital copies. I had the digital copy of Fury Road but then when i got the BD i was blown away how much more dynamic the audio was and VUDU uses dobly digital plus which is better than DVD.

[CtrlCtrlFast]

Originally Posted by soaptrail

Agreed, i just wish the audio was better on digital copies. I had the digital copy of Fury Road but then when i got the BD i was blown away how much more dynamic the audio was and VUDU uses dobly digital plus which is better than DVD.

not to mention the possibility of pixilization due to lower bandwidth/internet connection with streaming.

these two reasons are why i prefer discs over digital

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

You would think that in a situation like Paramount losing the rights to the early Marvels (Iron Man 1/2, Thor, Captain America 1) would result in the codes no longer working (Iron Man 1 didn't have a code, I know) or the old copies being ripped from our collections. Wrong. They're DMA now. They do lack the special features, but that's about it. That's a positive story about digital which could have gone a different direction.

That's an example of movies switching companies at the height of their popularity. If everyone had lost those titles it would piss off a huge number of customers. Therefore Disney wasn't going to let that happen. That doesn't mean that Disney or any other company won't remove old unpopular titles from people's collections.

Originally Posted by master gandhi

I'll be more specific with my other statement. I don't think major studios will be removing movies from our collections anytime soon. Does that mean not ever? No.

You could stand to be a little more optimistic. That's all.

I want every title to be available to everyone forever. Physical media provides the best chance of that happening because it doesn't rely on any centralized provider. It's a completely free market: anyone can buy from anyone.

I'm optimistic that for just about every title someone somewhere will still be selling a copy decades after most people have lost interest. I'm realistic that the studios won't keep selling copies when they aren't profitable.

I'm optimistic about people as a whole, but not about each company individually.

[s_har]

Another thing is versions. Nothing's stopping a company from 'updating' people's digital editions which may not always be what people want.

E.g Disney updating people's digital copies of Beauty and the Beast when the Signature Edition of that film was released. Now in that case the film uses the exact same (and controversial) transfer as the previous edition, but what if it didn't? Then people would be stuck with that new version.

Over the years several films have had subsequent home video releases being altered from their original versions because people and organisations were complaining about sexual references etc (Aladdin and The Little Mermaid). Then imagine people's digital copies being updated to that latest 'censored' release.

Imagine a horrific scenario in the future where some George Lucas like filmmaker keeps making 'improvements' on his own classic films and then upgrades the digital copies accordingly. It's food for thought I think.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

That's an example of movies switching companies at the height of their popularity. If everyone had lost those titles it was piss off a huge amount of customers. Therefore Disney wasn't going to let that happen. That doesn't mean that Disney or any other company won't remove old unpopular titles from people's collections.



I want every title to be available to everyone forever. Physical media provides the best chance of that happening because it doesn't rely on any centralized provider. It's a completely free market: anyone can buy from anyone.

I'm optimistic that for just about every title someone somewhere will still be selling a copy decades after most people have lost interest. I'm realistic that the studios won't keep selling copies when they aren't profitable.

I'm optimistic about people as a whole, but not about each company individually.

Fair points, all around. It does put more control in the hands of the companies instead of the consumers. It's almost like we need a system of checks and balances for the movie industry, in order to make sure they don't just remove movies from their database. Preservation of the arts is important, I agree.

Originally Posted by s_har

Another thing is versions. Nothing's stopping a company from 'updating' people's digital editions which may not always be what people want.

E.g Disney updating people's digital copies of Beauty and the Beast when the Signature Edition of that film was released. Now in that case the film uses the exact same (and controversial) transfer as the previous edition, but what if it didn't? Then people would be stuck with that new version.

Over the years several films have had subsequent home video releases being altered from their original versions because people and organisations were complaining about sexual references etc (Aladdin and The Little Mermaid). Then imagine people's digital copies being updated to that latest 'censored' release.

Imagine a horrific scenario in the future where some George Lucas like filmmaker keeps making 'improvements' on his own classic films and then upgrades the digital copies accordingly. It's food for thought I think.

This is definitely a valid concern as well.

I'm pretty sure the digital copies of that episode of Game of Thrones where they used a George W. Bush mask on a decapitated head has been altered (which is such a small alteration), just like the new pressings of the disc.

And I believe some of South Park has censorship and/or has missing episodes on iTunes.

Plus some Fox TV shows include commercials that they take off after they've been out for a year or something on iTunes (so I hear).

Then there's incorrect aspect ratios on several titles found on VUDU.

Yes, digital comes with its own can of worms.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Fair points, all around. It does put more control in the hands of the companies instead of the consumers. It's almost like we need a system of checks and balances for the movie industry, in order to make sure they don't just remove movies from their database.

So everything should be digital but there should be government subsidies to make sure that everything remains available? I don't think many people would be willing to pay increased taxes just to support digital media. Leaving control in the hands of the customers is a much better solution.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

So everything should be digital but there should be government subsidies to make sure that everything remains available? I don't think many people would be willing to pay increased taxes just to support digital media. Leaving control in the hands of the customers is a much better solution.

You may be right, which is why physical media will probably be around for a long time. Many will choose digital for the convenience and savings, but physical media still gives many others that extra peace of mind.

[s_har]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

You may be right, which is why physical media will probably be around for a long time. Many will choose digital for the convenience and savings, but physical media still gives many others that extra peace of mind.

One other thing that gives me faith physical will (hopefully) stay along longer than people expect is the state of internet connection and speeds worldwide.
It may be easy and convenient for people in urban areas with fast internet speeds to do away with physical, but if you're a movie buff in an area where downloading a 4K movie (not to mention a full season of a TV show) takes up to a week or more (and maybe you need that connection for other stuff as well) then I can see physical being the only viable option.
Since large parts of the world are likely to suffer for this in many many years to come I can see that alone being reason enough to keep physical around as a format. At least I hope so.

[onyxbfly]

I only buy physical disc. The only digital copies I have are the ones I make for myself.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

So everything should be digital but there should be government subsidies to make sure that everything remains available? I don't think many people would be willing to pay increased taxes just to support digital media. Leaving control in the hands of the customers is a much better solution.

Originally Posted by master gandhi

You may be right, which is why physical media will probably be around for a long time. Many will choose digital for the convenience and savings, but physical media still gives many others that extra peace of mind.

Originally Posted by s_har

One other thing that gives me faith physical will (hopefully) stay along longer than people expect is the state of internet connection and speeds worldwide.
It may be easy and convenient for people in urban areas with fast internet speeds to do away with physical, but if you're a movie buff in an area where downloading a 4K movie (not to mention a full season of a TV show) takes up to a week or more (and maybe you need that connection for other stuff as well) then I can see physical being the only viable option.
Since large parts of the world are likely to suffer for this in many many years to come I can see that alone being reason enough to keep physical around as a format. At least I hope so.

This Posting has taken a life of it's own, the OP put it on a couple of years ago and in that time Digital has evolved and surpassed expectations. As for Physical being a viable option that will depend on demand. Like anything the Market dictates what will remain. The Studios are working on Ownership of Digital, and I feel Media Servers will play a big part of this. Like I said, Storage is cheap and these Servers can be located anywhere with Licensing and DRM. So instead of Physical, you'll be able to Store your Collection on one of these Servers co-located with your ISP or locally on your Intranet.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by veritas

The only 2 2016 movies I saw that I can say I enjoyed in entirety are zootopia and deadpool so perhaps this was simply a bad year for movies.

2016 was a great year for movies. Though it was the first year recently that one really had to work to find the good ones.

It was an awful year for blockbusters, but the indies and foreign films were phenomenal. Though most of this site are not into those types of films.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

This Posting has taken a life of it's own, the OP put it on a couple of years ago and in that time Digital has evolved and surpassed expectations. As for Physical being a viable option that will depend on demand. Like anything the Market dictates what will remain. The Studios are working on Ownership of Digital, and I feel Media Servers will play a big part of this.

How are the studios working on ownership of digital? What have they done?

Originally Posted by alchav21

Like I said, Storage is cheap and these Servers can be located anywhere with Licensing and DRM. So instead of Physical, you'll be able to Store your Collection on one of these Servers co-located with your ISP or locally on your Intranet.

The studios own the rights to the movies. No amount of backups can allow anyone but the studios to dictate who has the right to play each movie. It doesn't matter if there are millions of backups around the world if a studio that owns the rights to a movie goes out of business or a studio says they don't want one of their movies to be available anymore then no one will legally be able to provide that movie.

But none of that has any effect on the discs they've already made and sold to stores and customers. Those discs can be played and redistributed for centuries with absolutely no involvement from the studios. No one has the ability to take them away.

[PenguinMaster]

FACT: The only source of all downloadable and streaming media is the studio that owns the rights.
FACT: I can buy physical media from any person who owns a disc. No other company or person has to be involved.

FACT: The studios have the ability and legal right to remove their movies from everyone's digital collections.
FACT: Short of literally breaking into people's homes no one has the ability to remove any physical movies from anyone's collections.

These won't change. They are why streaming and downloads will always be inferior to physical media.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

FACT: The only source of all downloadable and streaming media is the studio that owns the rights.
FACT: I can buy physical media from any person who owns a disc. No other company or person has to be involved.

FACT: The studios have the ability and legal right to remove their movies from everyone's digital collections.
FACT: Short of literally breaking into people's homes no one has the ability to remove any physical movies from anyone's collections.

These won't change. They are why streaming and downloads will always be inferior to physical media.

Penguin, I keep telling you it's all Digital, and Discs are just Storage Devices. The Studios can put anything on those Discs, even software that communicates back to the Studios. Future Physical can have just as much control as Future Digital. Just remember Servers are just massive Storage Devices like Physical Discs. Digital Streaming is The Future, but don't worry there will be Physical Disc too costly with just as much Control!