Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

In my Perfect World, homes will have their own Network and if someone wants to put their Media Server there I'm sure that will be possible too. The Studios only concern is Copy Protection, they don't like Pirates. So these Media Servers would have a way to protect Licensing.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

So you're supporting digital based on what it could possibly be in your perfect world? Since all digital content requires a connection to the digital providers whether digital gets better or worse in the future all your existing content will change with it. It's the uncertainty that worries me.

If physical content in the future is worse it won't have any effect whatsoever on all the physical content I already have or all the physical content that's already been made. I'm certain that all of that content will continue to be available.

Well Penguin we live in a Connected World, so yes I support Digital because just about everything is Digital now. From all reports now show the Physical Market going down, the Distributors pricing will have to go up to meet their Break Even Point. Collecting Movies is changing, before if I was going to watch a Movie two times I would buy the Disc. Now with Digital I could Rent the Movie or buy it and add to my Digital Collection. Right now if there's a real Keeper I'll buy the UHD Combo. Just like our Fathers and Grandfathers, their Book Collection was huge compared to my small Bookcase. So now my Physical Movie Collection has come down, and I'm sure other will follow too.

[s_har]

Originally Posted by flyry

Which titles do you own?

Batman VS Superman, Mad Max Fury Road and In the Heart of the Sea.

I have the Fantastic Beasts UHD on pre-order though and that one comes with a digital copy (unfortunately the cover art says ''Digital HD'' though so I'm not keeping my hopes up it's UHD).
I do plan on buying Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon due to its highly praised transfer, which also includes a ''Digital HD'' copy. Though I may end up buying that one from the US as it's less than half the price (the US release doesn't seem to include a digital copy though). Other than that I don't have any planned UHD purchases for some time.

Unfortunately UHD discs are crazy expensive in my region (no discs cost less than $36 unless they are part of some of the very rare UHD campaigns ) so I won't really invest in too many locally released titles unless prices goes down. It's actually cheaper for me to buy from the US.

[doctor_who]

Originally Posted by s_har

Batman VS Superman, Mad Max Fury Road and In the Heart of the Sea.

I have the Fantastic Beasts UHD on pre-order though and that one comes with a digital copy (unfortunately the cover art says ''Digital HD'' though so I'm not keeping my hopes up it's UHD).
I do plan on buying Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon due to its highly praised transfer, which also includes a ''Digital HD'' copy. Though I may end up buying that one from the US as it's less than half the price (the US release doesn't seem to include a digital copy though). Other than that I don't have any planned UHD purchases for some time.

Unfortunately UHD discs are crazy expensive in my region (no discs cost less than $36 unless they are part of some of the very rare UHD campaigns ) so I won't really invest in too many locally released titles unless prices goes down. It's actually cheaper for me to buy from the US.

The code will be UHD resolution because all WB releases on the format redeem that way. They say Digital HD, probably because not everybody is going to have a way to watch the digital file in UHD

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well Penguin we live in a Connected World, so yes I support Digital because just about everything is Digital now. From all reports now show the Physical Market going down, the Distributors pricing will have to go up to meet their Break Even Point. Collecting Movies is changing, before if I was going to watch a Movie two times I would buy the Disc. Now with Digital I could Rent the Movie or buy it and add to my Digital Collection. Right now if there's a real Keeper I'll buy the UHD Combo. Just like our Fathers and Grandfathers, their Book Collection was huge compared to my small Bookcase. So now my Physical Movie Collection has come down, and I'm sure other will follow too.

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...xed-broadband/

Things are changing but not in the way you and others think. As I have predicted for five years, mobile is going to be dominating and possibly even replacing big screen entertainment. That linked article is one if many that points to such trends. Don't say you guys haven't been warned. The cancellation of fixed broadband at 10% is alarming.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Well Penguin we live in a Connected World, so yes I support Digital because just about everything is Digital now. From all reports now show the Physical Market going down, the Distributors pricing will have to go up to meet their Break Even Point. Collecting Movies is changing, before if I was going to watch a Movie two times I would buy the Disc. Now with Digital I could Rent the Movie or buy it and add to my Digital Collection. Right now if there's a real Keeper I'll buy the UHD Combo. Just like our Fathers and Grandfathers, their Book Collection was huge compared to my small Bookcase. So now my Physical Movie Collection has come down, and I'm sure other will follow too.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...xed-broadband/

Things are changing but not in the way you and others think. As I have predicted for five years, mobile is going to be dominating and possibly even replacing big screen entertainment. That linked article is one if many that points to such trends. Don't say you guys haven't been warned. The cancellation of fixed broadband at 10% is alarming.

Good Article, and very true bringing up a fine point. Fixed Broadband or Hard Wired Internet is diminishing. I'm sure it has to do with the Obsolete Copper Infrastructure, which I have been telling everyone for years. Now with 5G Wireless on the horizon, people think this is the greatest thing ever. The Future Connected Home is going to need a lot of Bandwidth that only Fiber will be able to Quench. Sure 5G will be a big factor here too, but for the Bandwidth needed and consistency it will be costly and not as steady. Baby Boomers have a few years left, and they love their Big Screen Home Entertainment, so they will wake up and push for FTTH. Now the Millennials are pushing the Mobile Device Era, so we will have to see how that pans out. I think it will be a combination of Fixed Line Fiber with 5G Wireless going into the Future.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Good Article, and very true bringing up a fine point. Fixed Broadband or Hard Wired Internet is diminishing. I'm sure it has to do with the Obsolete Copper Infrastructure, which I have been telling everyone for years. Now with 5G Wireless on the horizon, people think this is the greatest thing ever. The Future Connected Home is going to need a lot of Bandwidth that only Fiber will be able to Quench. Sure 5G will be a big factor here too, but for the Bandwidth needed and consistency it will be costly and not as steady. Baby Boomers have a few years left, and they love their Big Screen Home Entertainment, so they will wake up and push for FTTH. Now the Millennials are pushing the Mobile Device Era, so we will have to see how that pans out. I think it will be a combination of Fixed Line Fiber with 5G Wireless going into the Future.

It's a trend I have seen coming for a few years now. I have been Shot down at every opportunity but not sure why. No point in big screen tv if you don't have fixed broadband, unless......we stop supporting Digital HD and streaming. I have argued this point many times, the more people that abandon disc, the quicker the transition to mobile phone only entertainment. People won't have it, but this will happen. I'm not sure fibre is going to stick around beyond next decade. Troubling times ahead for home cinema fans.

[master gandhi]

Fixed broadband has to stay for many people, including myself. We get no cellular service inside most of our apartment, so we use WiFi Calling to make phone calls. Many people live in areas with little to no cell service. Broadband is a necessity for many of us.

Also, and I know this is a small argument, VUDU's 3D and UHD cannot be viewed on anything other than a TV. Not on a mobile device, nor on a computer.

Plus, many people use Smart TVs, Rokus and Apple TVs to watch content. Those aren't mobile devices.

Some people think they can manage without broadband (and maybe they can), but most people consider it a requirement and lose their minds when they don't have it. It's not just about the speed. It's about the many situations that call for it.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Fixed broadband has to stay for many people, including myself. We get no cellular service inside most of our apartment, so we use WiFi Calling to make phone calls. Many people live in areas with little to no cell service. Broadband is a necessity for many of us.

Also, and I know this is a small argument, VUDU's 3D and UHD cannot be viewed on anything other than a TV. Not on a mobile device, nor on a computer.

Plus, many people use Smart TVs, Rokus and Apple TVs to watch content. Those aren't mobile devices.

Some people think they can manage without broadband (and maybe they can), but most people consider it a requirement and lose their minds when they don't have it. It's not just about the speed. It's about the many situations that call for it.

But 10 percent decrease in a year? If that prediction is even close to being correct, if that growth continues over next ten years, that's fixed line wiped out isn't it? Or am I being a bit thick?

By the way, isn't 5g meant to fix all the cellular issues in future? (I know, I know lol)

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But 10 percent decrease in a year? If that prediction is even close to being correct, if that growth continues over next ten years, that's fixed line wiped out isn't it? Or am I being a bit thick?

By the way, isn't 5g meant to fix all the cellular issues in future? (I know, I know lol)

That's a large decrease in such a short time, but I don't see that happening steadily. People that cancel internet will soon realize that being without internet limits them compared to relying solely on 4G and/or 5G. Most Unlimited plans give hotspots a limit of about 10 GBs of high-speed data before it's throttled. If you watch anywhere as much Netflix, Amazon, etc. as my wife and I do, you'll need a heck of a lot more than 10 GBs.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

That's a large decrease in such a short time, but I don't see that happening steadily. People that cancel internet will soon realize that being without internet limits them compared to relying solely on 4G and/or 5G. Most Unlimited plans give hotspots a limit of about 10 GBs of high-speed data before it's throttled. If you watch anywhere as much Netflix, Amazon, etc. as my wife and I do, you'll need a heck of a lot more than 10 GBs.

I'm hoping that some kind of new tech solution will enable casting mobile to tv with unlimited data in HD otherwise if things turn out as badly as I imagine, it's going to be the end of home cinema.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It's a trend I have seen coming for a few years now. I have been Shot down at every opportunity but not sure why.

Because you keep mixing up things that don't have any causality for the point you are trying to prove, and on the other hand ignore evidence that disproves your theory (like e.g. the surging sales of UHD TVs). Will some people replace their wired home Internet by wireless (note: that doesn't necessarily mean mobile) Internet? Sure. Does that also mean they will throw away their TV sets? Hardly.

So, why would people switch to wireless Internet? A few possible reasons:

- Perhaps they have only access to slow DSL, in which case 4G/5G mobile will be faster.
- Perhaps they keep their cable service and/or prefer watching OTA or physical discs and thus don't require fast Internet.
- Going forward, fixed wireless broadband will become very popular, since it will give people fast Internet without digging up whole neighborhoods to upgrade cable access. This is one of the main use cases for 5G, and companies like Google and Verizon are prioritizing it over FTTH because it is much less expensive to deploy in many areas.

No point in big screen tv if you don't have fixed broadband,

This is a non-sequitur, since there are other ways to watch HD content than wired broadband.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Good Article, and very true bringing up a fine point. Fixed Broadband or Hard Wired Internet is diminishing. I'm sure it has to do with the Obsolete Copper Infrastructure, which I have been telling everyone for years. Now with 5G Wireless on the horizon, people think this is the greatest thing ever. The Future Connected Home is going to need a lot of Bandwidth that only Fiber will be able to Quench. Sure 5G will be a big factor here too, but for the Bandwidth needed and consistency it will be costly and not as steady. Baby Boomers have a few years left, and they love their Big Screen Home Entertainment, so they will wake up and push for FTTH. Now the Millennials are pushing the Mobile Device Era, so we will have to see how that pans out. I think it will be a combination of Fixed Line Fiber with 5G Wireless going into the Future.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It's a trend I have seen coming for a few years now. I have been Shot down at every opportunity but not sure why. No point in big screen tv if you don't have fixed broadband, unless......we stop supporting Digital HD and streaming. I have argued this point many times, the more people that abandon disc, the quicker the transition to mobile phone only entertainment. People won't have it, but this will happen. I'm not sure fibre is going to stick around beyond next decade. Troubling times ahead for home cinema fans.

The Average Person is clueless about Bandwidth needs and Infrastructure, they think like you do Wireless is the Great Savior. Data Cloud Services, and Streaming Video is the Future. When people wake up to this fact they will see that a Big Pipe is needed.....FTTH. Even Google has dropped back on their Fiber Deployment, but I feel people will wake up soon and see a combination of Wireless and Wired will be the way of The Future. Streaming HD Video is only going to get better, and Movies Now will be The Call!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Because you keep mixing up things that don't have any causality for the point you are trying to prove, and on the other hand ignore evidence that disproves your theory (like e.g. the surging sales of UHD TVs). Will some people replace their wired home Internet by wireless (note: that doesn't necessarily mean mobile) Internet? Sure. Does that also mean they will throw away their TV sets? Hardly.

So, why would people switch to wireless Internet? A few possible reasons:

- Perhaps they have only access to slow DSL, in which case 4G/5G mobile will be faster.
- Perhaps they keep their cable service and/or prefer watching OTA or physical discs and thus don't require fast Internet.
- Going forward, fixed wireless broadband will become very popular, since it will give people fast Internet without digging up whole neighborhoods to upgrade cable access. This is one of the main use cases for 5G, and companies like Google and Verizon are prioritizing it over FTTH because it is much less expensive to deploy in many areas.
This is a non-sequitur, since there are other ways to watch HD content than wired broadband.

I am linking that to those disturbing numbers predicted in that article. 10 percent over a year decrease in fixed broadband homes. That is really alarming. That means ten years from now, very very few fixed broadband homes. I know Master Ghandi thinks people will get fed up but what if they don't?

If a household has a tv but no fixed broadband, what are the options? Sure, right now disc. However, digital is supposed to be replacing disc in a few years! What then?

Finally, 5g will still cost considerably more than just having a mobile contract with unlimited or Zero rated unlimited Netflix, Amazon etc.. on one's phone.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

The Average Person is clueless about Bandwidth needs and Infrastructure, they think like you do Wireless is the Great Savior. Data Cloud Services, and Streaming Video is the Future. When people wake up to this fact they will see that a Big Pipe is needed.....FTTH. Even Google has dropped back on their Fiber Deployment, but I feel people will wake up soon and see a combination of Wireless and Wired will be the way of The Future. Streaming HD Video is only going to get better, and Movies Now will be The Call!

I hope, got me worried sick all this mobile crap. I will even put up with your digital is the future rants if it means we still get a big screen tv to watch films on.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

If a household has a tv but no fixed broadband, what are the options? Sure, right now disc.

Or perhaps these 10% of households don't watch a whole lot of TV anyway? In which case they are irrelevant for your argument ...

However, digital is supposed to be replacing disc in a few years! What then?

Finally, 5g will still cost considerably more than just having a mobile contract with unlimited or Zero rated unlimited Netflix, Amazon etc.. on one's phone.

You can already stream HD video from a phone to a TV set today, e.g. via Apple Airplay or Google Chromecast.

One of the main reasons why operators invest heavily in 5G is to provide enough bandwidth for HD video. And fixed wireless broadband will not be priced the same as fully mobile service (since knowing where the customer will consume the bandwidth makes it easier for the operator to provision their network resources).

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Or perhaps these 10% of households don't watch a whole lot of TV anyway? In which case they are irrelevant for your argument ...
You can already stream HD video from a phone to a TV set today, e.g. via Apple Airplay or Google Chromecast.

One of the main reasons why operators invest heavily in 5G is to provide enough bandwidth for HD video. And fixed wireless broadband will not be priced the same as fully mobile service (since knowing where the customer will consume the bandwidth makes it easier for the operator to provision their network resources).

Yes but those casting options are relying on wifi aren't they?

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes but those casting options are relying on wifi aren't they?

Yes. So?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

Yes. So?

So my whole argument is how can you do so in a mobile only household? Meaning no fixed broadband is likely to mean no TV set. The way things are heading, it's going to be Digital with things like Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, BBC Iplayer etc..
Presuming that is the case, one would need fixed broadband to access that content on a tv. If people don't have that, then they must be accessing that through their mobile with options such as binge on and zero rated streaming apps. Or even a unlimited data plan on their phone.

By the way, 5g as a fixed option is not even tested yet. It could prove to be useless like so many tests before it.

[master gandhi]

Hotspot. That's how you use your wireless data plan to share directly with your TV or Apple TV/Roku etc.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

So my whole argument is how can you do so in a mobile only household?

What does Wifi have to do with the type of Internet access you are using? You can use the phone as a hotspot, or set up a separate Wifi hotspot for your home network. Fixed wireless broadband households will get cellular routers with an inbuilt Wifi hotspot.

Meaning no fixed broadband is likely to mean no TV set.

Really? In almost all countries the majority of households don't have fixed broadband. But large majorities of households (in the US it's over 90%) have TVs.

And BTW, the number of TV households in the US is currently growing:

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/niel...ws-1201845482/

By the way, 5g as a fixed option is not even tested yet. It could prove to be useless like so many tests before it.

It is being tested as we speak and it works. And BTW, there are already commercial 4G fixed wireless contracts in some countries (where your traffic is automatically zero-rated if you are in your "home zone").