Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

What does Wifi have to do with the type of Internet access you are using? You can use the phone as a hotspot, or set up a separate Wifi hotspot for your home network. Fixed wireless broadband households will get cellular routers with an inbuilt Wifi hotspot.
Really? In almost all countries the majority of households don't have fixed broadband. But large majorities of households (in the US it's over 90%) have TVs.

And BTW, the number of TV households in the US is currently growing:

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/niel...ws-1201845482/

It is being tested as we speak and it works. And BTW, there are already commercial 4G fixed wireless contracts in some countries (where your traffic is automatically zero-rated if you are in your "home zone").

So what The heck is going on then?

Tv households growing
Pay tv subs falling
Disc sales falling
Potentially (only a survey) 10% fall in broadband homes
Netflix and other streaming subs doing well but not THAT well.

What the heck are people watching on these TV sets?

By the way, that is excellent news about the TV households. I am U.K but we are a nation of telly lovers and patterns are normally similar with adoption of new tv tech.

Your other point about fixed 5g? Surely though, that still means two separate contracts. One for your cellphone and one for the fixed 5G? So essentially, it's not much different from paying for fibre and a cellphone contract today? Oh and TV sets have a problem recognising a wifi hotspot on many occasions. I have read many times of issues with the tv even picking up the hotspot yet alone streaming from it.

Finally, how can you know that fixed 5G works? It is a year long process apparently and even then it's supposed to be on a large scale, not just a few families in a street. How would they know it works already.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Hotspot. That's how you use your wireless data plan to share directly with your TV or Apple TV/Roku etc.

But isn't that restricted to a certain limit? It surely wouldn't be sufficient to watch more than a couple of shows or a film?

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But isn't that restricted to a certain limit? It surely wouldn't be sufficient to watch more than a couple of shows or a film?

Yes, so you wouldn't be able to use much of it. I guess the more likely scenario is using AirPlay from an iPhone to an Apple TV or I believe cast from an android to a Chromecast. Stuff like that. Not sure how many people use those features. I don't do it that way, because then I can't use my phone for other things if I want it. I like checking IMDb and stuff like that during a movie. Depends on the movie.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Yes, so you wouldn't be able to use much of it. I guess the more likely scenario is using AirPlay from an iPhone to an Apple TV or I believe cast from an android to a Chromecast. Stuff like that. Not sure how many people use those features. I don't do it that way, because then I can't use my phone for other things if I want it. I like checking IMDb and stuff like that during a movie. Depends on the movie.

Yes, but they would also require broadband. My point is, no broadband means no Netflix, Amazon, Hulu etc.. only on mobile and that's my initial point. All the methods that people have mentioned have been half arsed dongle this, hotspot that. That's no way to experience home entertainment.
I was saying mobile only household means no tv as I can't see why you would want the tv if you don't want broadband. Millenials (the most likely subset of people to adandon broadband) don't seem to be bothered about discs in general so that leaves streaming services on phones as their sole entertainment. If that happens to all of us, that's ******* grim!

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes, but they would also require broadband. My point is, no broadband means no Netflix, Amazon, Hulu etc.. only on mobile and that's my initial point. All the methods that people have mentioned have been half arsed dongle this, hotspot that. That's no way to experience home entertainment.
I was saying mobile only household means no tv as I can't see why you would want the tv if you don't want broadband. Millenials (the most likely subset of people to adandon broadband) don't seem to be bothered about discs in general so that leaves streaming services on phones as their sole entertainment. If that happens to all of us, that's ******* grim!

Yeah, they're not likely to stream on their TV if they don't have broadband. They may only watch discs and/or antenna TV. Not as much new content, that's for sure.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Yeah, they're not likely to stream on their TV if they don't have broadband. They may only watch discs and/or antenna TV. Not as much new content, that's for sure.

Agreed. I can't believe more people aren't worried about the implications of a significant increase in homes with no broadband.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Yes, so you wouldn't be able to use much of it. I guess the more likely scenario is using AirPlay from an iPhone to an Apple TV or I believe cast from an android to a Chromecast. Stuff like that. Not sure how many people use those features. I don't do it that way, because then I can't use my phone for other things if I want it. I like checking IMDb and stuff like that during a movie. Depends on the movie.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Yes, but they would also require broadband. My point is, no broadband means no Netflix, Amazon, Hulu etc.. only on mobile and that's my initial point. All the methods that people have mentioned have been half arsed dongle this, hotspot that. That's no way to experience home entertainment.
I was saying mobile only household means no tv as I can't see why you would want the tv if you don't want broadband. Millenials (the most likely subset of people to adandon broadband) don't seem to be bothered about discs in general so that leaves streaming services on phones as their sole entertainment. If that happens to all of us, that's ******* grim!

See even here people don't understand the difference between Fixed and Wireless Broadband. Just because 5g promises GigaBit Speeds, people label that Fixed. Like you guys I feel the true Fixed Broadband is Hard Wired, this is the only way to get the Bandwidth that will be needed. The Obsolete Copper Infrastructure is causing people to drop it. The only solution I see is a combination of both Fixed Fiber and Wireless 5g.

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Agreed. I can't believe more people aren't worried about the implications of a significant increase in homes with no broadband.

I apologized if you've posted this already, but can you post a link to this information. If anything has attributed to this it's 10% of more American's are out of work and can't afford internet services now. I have not heard of one person who has dropped their home internet for phone only internet and tethering.. I have a 27 node home, using a "hotspot" is ludicrous.

I think a lot of people in this thread are confusing wi-fi LAN and wi-fi WAN.

Of course everything will be wi-fi WAN one day, when it's fat and fast enough to compete or beat copper or fiber, the infrastructure is obviously cheaper. But the backbones and providers are going to milk wired as much as they can, the infrastructure is in place. You can count on that.

*

[Groot]

Originally Posted by whipnet

I apologized if you've posted this already, but can you post a link to this information. If anything has attributed to this it's 10% of more American's are out of work and can't afford internet services now. I have not heard of one person who has dropped their home internet for phone only internet and tethering.. I have a 27 node home, using a "hotspot" is ludicrous.

I think a lot of people in this thread are confusing wi-fi LAN and wi-fi WAN.

Of course everything will be wi-fi WAN one day, when it's fat and fast enough to compete or beat copper or fiber, the infrastructure is obviously cheaper. But the backbones and providers are going to milk wired as much as they can, the infrastructure is in place. You can count on that.

*

http://fortune.com/2016/12/08/cord-c...ing-broadband/

It started with people dropping landline phones for mobile phones and then moved to people dropping cable TV for Internet video. Now the phenomenon of cord cutting is increasingly hitting broadband services, as people cut their wired Internet connections and just rely on mobile phones to get online.
"We are now entering the realm of triple cord cutting," said Kristin Paulin, senior analyst at Ovum.

In the third quarter, AT&T (T, -1.38%) and Windstream (WIN, +8.67%) saw customer losses in wired voice, cable TV and broadband customers, Ovum said in a report this week. CenturyLink (CTL, +0.16%) and Consolidated Communications recorded losses in two out of three categories, and Verizon (VZ, -1.39%) has had low growth or losses recently in video and broadband, Ovum said. Most cable companies fared better although Cablevision (CVC) reported fewer customers for cable TV and fixed voice service with no growth in broadband, according to the analysis.

The evolution of consumer preferences comes as mobile phones are nearly ubiquitous and mobile Internet service is faster than ever. AT&T and Verizon this summer increased the size of monthly data allowances for most customers, while Sprint (S, -0.39%) and T-Mobile (TMUS, -0.43%) cut prices on unlimited data plans (though with some caveats). The carriers have also rolled out upgraded 4G LTE technology to increase download speeds, and the upcoming 5G wireless standard will offer an even larger speed-up.
Get Data Sheet, Fortune's technology newsletter.

A top reason for broadband cord cutting is to save money, with 59% of smartphone-only Internet users citing that rationale, Pew Research reported in October. Last year, 13% of adults used only smartphones to connect to the Internet, up from 8% in 2013, Pew said. Meanwhile, 67% of adults had home broadband connections, down from 70% in 2013.

Still, some broadband providers are trying to fight the trend by offering super-fast 1 gigabit per second service. AT&T has rolled out its gigabit service, called GigaPower, in 29 metropolitan areas with another 38 announced to get service in the future. Verizon is expanding its Fios Internet service in Boston, although it eventually plans to rely on 5G wireless connections instead of fiber-optic cables.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by whipnet

I apologized if you've posted this already, but can you post a link to this information. If anything has attributed to this it's 10% of more American's are out of work and can't afford internet services now. I have not heard of one person who has dropped their home internet for phone only internet and tethering.. I have a 27 node home, using a "hotspot" is ludicrous.

I think a lot of people in this thread are confusing wi-fi LAN and wi-fi WAN.

Of course everything will be wi-fi WAN one day, when it's fat and fast enough to compete or beat copper or fiber, the infrastructure is obviously cheaper. But the backbones and providers are going to milk wired as much as they can, the infrastructure is in place. You can count on that.

*

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...xed-broadband/

Here you go.

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

http://advanced-television.com/2017/...xed-broadband/

Here you go.

Thanks. The title says "likely"
That explains a lot.

*

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by whipnet

Thanks. The title says "likely"
That explains a lot.

*

But even if those guesses are anywhere near accurate it spells huge problems.

[whipnet]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

But even if those guesses are anywhere near accurate it spells huge problems.

You sound like my college professors from the late 80's telling me about global warming and how I'd be under water by 2010 if I still lived in Houston.

I'll still go with people are broke. Not choosing this for convenience.

*

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by whipnet

You sound like my college professors from the late 80's telling me about global warming and how I'd be under water by 2010 if I still lived in Houston.

I'll still go with people are broke. Not choosing this for convenience.

*

Well global warming is a real issue. Look at wildlife? Look at increasingly warm winters (especially in the U.K)

Fair enough though, you don't agree with me. Join the list lol.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Your other point about fixed 5g? Surely though, that still means two separate contracts. One for your cellphone and one for the fixed 5G? So essentially, it's not much different from paying for fibre and a cellphone contract today?

That's a business decision. There will probably be both separate and bundle offers.

Oh and TV sets have a problem recognising a wifi hotspot on many occasions. I have read many times of issues with the tv even picking up the hotspot yet alone streaming from it.

Why would a TV (or a streaming box like Roku or Apple TV) have "problems" with Wifi? That's what everyone uses today.

Finally, how can you know that fixed 5G works? It is a year long process apparently and even then it's supposed to be on a large scale, not just a few families in a street. How would they know it works already.

I know because the company I work for is one of those that make it happen. And as I mentioned, fixed wireless broadband already exists based on 3GPP 4G and other wireless standards.

[Fiffy]

Originally Posted by alchav21

See even here people don't understand the difference between Fixed and Wireless Broadband. Just because 5g promises GigaBit Speeds, people label that Fixed.

What the heck are you talking about? Fixed wireless is called "fixed" because it is only available at the user's home location, i.e. it does not provide mobility like regular cellular service. It's just a wireless replacement for copper- or fiber-based Internet access in areas where it's not economical to roll out wired broadband. In some cases it uses a roof-mounted antenna or similar.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

See even here people don't understand the difference between Fixed and Wireless Broadband.

Originally Posted by Fiffy

What the heck are you talking about? Fixed wireless is called "fixed" because it is only available at the user's home location, i.e. it does not provide mobility like regular cellular service. It's just a wireless replacement for copper- or fiber-based Internet access in areas where it's not economical to roll out wired broadband. In some cases it uses a roof-mounted antenna or similar.

I know what you are talking about, but Wireless is Wireless. We were using Fixed as a Hard Wired Connection. Wireless whether Fixed on a rooftop or dependent on a good signal, is not as consistent as Wired. That's where the controversy lies, and the Common Person thinks Wireless is as good as Wired. A Fixed Fiber Connection will always be much better than a Fixed Wireless Connection. The Bandwidth and Consistency has no comparison. Will both co-exist, definitely because like you said not everyone will have access to FTTH so the fall back will be Wireless.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Groot

http://fortune.com/2016/12/08/cord-c...ing-broadband/

Which backs up my theory.

Also, if Digital is the future and people are getting rid of broadband, that means mobile is the future of entertainment. Pretty much what I have been warning about for five years. Despite all the mocking gifs and put downs, it seems my fears may be justified.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

That's a business decision. There will probably be both separate and bundle offers.
Why would a TV (or a streaming box like Roku or Apple TV) have "problems" with Wifi? That's what everyone uses today.
I know because the company I work for is one of those that make it happen. And as I mentioned, fixed wireless broadband already exists based on 3GPP 4G and other wireless standards.

Which gets back to my point. Who is going to pay for both when they are currently just using mobile to get online? How does fixed 5g fix that issue? Answer, it doesn't.

My second point, sorry should have been clearer. I meant using a phone as a hotspot in the home. Apparently the main Issues are getting the tv to pick up the signal and then actually playing the content.

Finally, I will take your word for that. Howevever, the claims are fixed 5g will work on a mass scale, not a few families in a neighbourhood. We shall see how it pans out.

One thing I know, this isn't looking good for hone cinema. As I have argued for years, people who have given up on disc are hurrying the process along and driving us to the mobile only world quicker. Once pay tv and broadcast is gone, I doubt the TV set will stick around.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Fiffy

What does Wifi have to do with the type of Internet access you are using? You can use the phone as a hotspot, or set up a separate Wifi hotspot for your home network. Fixed wireless broadband households will get cellular routers with an inbuilt Wifi hotspot.
Really? In almost all countries the majority of households don't have fixed broadband. But large majorities of households (in the US it's over 90%) have TVs.

And BTW, the number of TV households in the US is currently growing:

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/niel...ws-1201845482/

It is being tested as we speak and it works. And BTW, there are already commercial 4G fixed wireless contracts in some countries (where your traffic is automatically zero-rated if you are in your "home zone").

Could you provide evidence if that? Other countries broadband and tv ownership? It may be some countries don't have easy access to digital/streaming services. I know in the U.S it's around 67% of homes who have broadband and according to those figures you linked, 90% are tv households.