PlayStation 5 Launches Nov 12 $399/$499 Nov 19 £359/£449

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by partridge

Agreed. Building the processor box into the 5 will cut down on cabling, all your need to do is hook up a camera and the headset and away you go. Right now it's a mess of cables and an extra power supply.

Not everyone has a camera for the 4 but it still supports it, not everyone makes use of HDR but it supports that too. I can't see why Sony wouldn't add this bit of the VR kit into the next console.

Question, is it possible to develop head tracking internally in the VR headset without the need for an external camera?

Originally Posted by Mavrick

Digital Foundry: PlayStation 5 - When can Sony truly deliver a generational leap in power?

PlayStation 5: When Can Sony Deliver A True Generational Leap? - YouTube

I CANNOT listen to that guy. I feel like I'm listening to Elmer Fudd when he speaks.

[Naiera]

People who can't speak good shouldn't be on YouTube, the radio or, of course, TV. I've often had to find different video tutorials and such on YouTube because the guy talkin' was impossible to listen to.

[dyne]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Question, is it possible to develop head tracking internally in the VR headset without the need for an external camera?

Eventually.

MS and the others are working on "inside out" tracking which puts the cameras on the headset. Oculus hopes to have it in their next revision called Santa Cruz. MS is using HoloLens which is different from full VR.

The problem right now is that inside out tries to read imprecise cues like depth and acceleration. There needs to be a point of reference. Afaik this is what HTC's newest version does as it uses it's towers as external markers to track kind of like what the Wiimotes did.

There were demos at a recent CES using 3-d mapping software that helped with inside out as long as manufacturers had both a depth sensor and a motion-detecting inertial measurement unit.

[Mavrick]

Originally Posted by Naiera

People who can't speak good shouldn't be on YouTube, the radio or, of course, TV. I've often had to find different video tutorials and such on YouTube because the guy talkin' was impossible to listen to.

You know there is an entire write up at the link which is essentially what he says in the video plus more

[tjritter79]

Seriously, we'll know MORE what is planned for the PS5 AFTER the mobile RYZEN chip is released this summer. From what I understand, the benchmarks of this chip exceed the minimum requirements we prev discussed on the PS4/PS5 board. The custom AMD chip will likely be built on the RYZEN tech with a few modifications.
And, that's also why I wouldn't expect a console before fall 2021, the cost of this new technology has to drop substantially before it can be implemented in the console environment. These people predicting 2018? 2019?? Too soon! At the earliest, with NO hiccups, possibly 2020, but 2021 sure fits a whole lot better.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by tjritter79

Seriously, we'll know MORE what is planned for the PS5 AFTER the mobile RYZEN chip is released this summer. From what I understand, the benchmarks of this chip exceed the minimum requirements we prev discussed on the PS4/PS5 board. The custom AMD chip will likely be built on the RYZEN tech with a few modifications.
And, that's also why I wouldn't expect a console before fall 2021, the cost of this new technology has to drop substantially before it can be implemented in the console environment. These people predicting 2018? 2019?? Too soon! At the earliest, with NO hiccups, possibly 2020, but 2021 sure fits a whole lot better.

Absolutely no way Sony waits until 2021 to launch PS5

[TheWildWhelk]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Absolutely no way Sony waits until 2021 to launch PS5

I'm not with Richard Leadbetter on Microsoft launching at the same time as Sony. Again it takes a year for dev's to get to grips with new hardware, and the 1X will match whatever the PS5 is doing for those first 12 months.

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by TheWildWhelk

I'm not with Richard Leadbetter on Microsoft launching at the same time as Sony. Again it takes a year for dev's to get to grips with new hardware, and the 1X will match whatever the PS5 is doing for those first 12 months.

LOL shit! MS can't match what PS4 is doing right now (content wise).

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Naiera

People who can't speak good shouldn't be on YouTube, the radio or, of course, TV. I've often had to find different video tutorials and such on YouTube because the guy talkin' was impossible to listen to.

“People who can’t speak good”?

[tjritter79]

Originally Posted by Steelmaker

Absolutely no way Sony waits until 2021 to launch PS5

Well, you COULD be right? But logically, the tech has to be 1) almost commonplace before its released to a console environment and 2) It HAS to be cutting-edge for the present AND viable for the long-term future.

It could be argued the PS3 was released WAY before its time. Sales of the *3 were sluggish at the time of release, too many assortments of models, very few games (due of course to the difficult programming architecture) and the insistence of the early models having BC with the still-selling PS2. Sony took a huge hardware hit mostly because the STILL unproven Blu-ray drive was very expensive. Some gamers may disagree, but corporate wise the PS3 release was a disaster.

So what changed? Some models, ports and PS2 BC was removed. The cost of the drive went down, Blu-ray began winning the "war" against HD-DVD. More games were developed and the "slim" model was introduced. At last look the PS3 had sold 80+M consoles.

Expectations! Gamers are expecting the console to have full-time 4K@60 fps playability. HD VR . This is already a TON of processing power, that TODAY is nowhere near commonplace. Plus, its not even 2 years since the Pro was released. The ONLY reason the Pro was developed was to allow current gamers to ease into the 4K market if they wanted to. If a NEW console was "that close" on the horizon, there would have been no need for the Pro. I expect the new console to have 4K "out-of-the-box" capability, and possible expansion to 8K if the need arises in the upcoming future. The only "certainty" known for 8K right now.....is the HDMI standard of 2.1. Which likely will be the standard when the new console is released......are nowhere to be found on any devices right now. I think you can buy cables, that's it.

Plus, I don't agree that MicroSoft dictates what Sony does....I think Sony has their OWN plan and sticks by it. Sure, there is competition, but lets be honest. MicroSoft HAS to keep up to Sony, not the other way around. Sony is divested in so many industries the gaming aspect is just a section of their empire, while with MicroSoft its their reason of being.

[tjritter79]

My theory: When looking to the future, make sure you look to the past as well.

Original PlayStation: released 1995 (Japan was Dec 1994, everyone else a yr later)
PlayStation 2: released 2000 (a 5-yr gap)
Playstation 3: released 2006 (a 6-yr gap)
PlayStation 4: released 2013 (a 7-yr gap)
PlayStation 5: ??? I predict 2021 (an 8-yr gap)

See the pattern? For each subsequent release upgrade, an extra yr. I see no reason why Sony wouldn't maintain this pattern.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by tjritter79

Sony is divested in so many industries the gaming aspect is just a section of their empire, while with MicroSoft its their reason of being.

Microsoft's reasons for being are Windows and Office software, not gaming.

[Member-115369]

Originally Posted by Musashi

Microsoft's reasons for being are Windows and Office software, not gaming.

Increasingly cloud services as well, huge part of their revenue now.

Sony is much less diverse now, and their other areas like phones and tvs have been struggling. Their phones have never been competitive with Apple and Samsung, and they've fallen behind in TVs as Samsung, LG and others stepped up with similar quality for lower prices.

So Sony is definitely all in with Playstation as that's their best product. MS I can see ditching Xbox eventually if the X1 successor fails, or at least just moving to have it on Windows and have Gamepass streaming on a variety of devices. Again, their all about services. Windows licenses, Office 365, Cloud Storage, Xbox Live, Gamepass etc.

[tjritter79]

Originally Posted by Musashi

Microsoft's reasons for being are Windows and Office software, not gaming.

Obviously, but you buy it once....and done. I have not had to buy MS software since Win 8. 8.1 and 10 were free upgrades.

I last bought Office 2003, haven't bought a version since.

Plus, on the OS & Office aspects, there are FREE open source versions out there. Linux & Open Office just to name a few.

Windows is NOW part of and intertwined with their gaming operation. Whether you play HALO or Solitaire, you are logged in as an X-box user. Haven't seen the newer XB-1, but the 360 was sure similar to the Metro screens on Win 8. They consider Windows a "service" now. No more buying a new OS every 5-6 yrs, nope they just upgrade what they got.

Look, Microsoft does now exactly what IBM was doing a few years ago, before they left the PC business...they license the name, they create nothing and reap the rewards of their 100 plus yr reputation. Servers, POS, mainframes, PC's , laptops, all had the IBM name at one time...and yes the equipment is STILL out there because it was built to last...but bit by bit the hunger for profit eroded the keen business sense that made the company a mainstay for over 100 yrs. Selling off the PC business was the first nail in the IBM coffin, I should know, I was part of that!

[tjritter79]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

Increasingly cloud services as well, huge part of their revenue now.

Sony is much less diverse now, and their other areas like phones and tvs have been struggling. Their phones have never been competitive with Apple and Samsung, and they've fallen behind in TVs as Samsung, LG and others stepped up with similar quality for lower prices.

So Sony is definitely all in with Playstation as that's their best product. MS I can see ditching Xbox eventually if the X1 successor fails, or at least just moving to have it on Windows and have Gamepass streaming on a variety of devices. Again, their all about services. Windows licenses, Office 365, Cloud Storage, Xbox Live, Gamepass etc.

Less diverse? Really??? Gaming is but a small pct of what Sony is involved in.

OK, I know this will be boring but here is a short list, and just the U.S.A.
(and for you truthers, yeah I'll include the link):

SONY Pictures Entertainment
Columbia Pictures
Tri-Star Pictures
Screen Gems
Sony Movie Channel
Crackle
Funimation
Columbia records
RCA records
Epic records
Sony music Nashville
Polyphony digital
Naughty Dog
Sony Interactive Entertainment (games)
...with studios in:
Santa Monica
San Diego
Bend
Sucker Punch productions

...yeah its a long list, here is a link to the rest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sony_subsidiaries

[tjritter79]

Originally Posted by dyne

Eventually.

MS and the others are working on "inside out" tracking which puts the cameras on the headset. Oculus hopes to have it in their next revision called Santa Cruz. MS is using HoloLens which is different from full VR.

The problem right now is that inside out tries to read imprecise cues like depth and acceleration. There needs to be a point of reference. Afaik this is what HTC's newest version does as it uses it's towers as external markers to track kind of like what the Wiimotes did.

There were demos at a recent CES using 3-d mapping software that helped with inside out as long as manufacturers had both a depth sensor and a motion-detecting inertial measurement unit.

VR is still an evolving technology. It will grow by leaps and bounds before we see viable applications we use everyday switch to this platform. The main problem right now is being able to process changes in depth as the person moves. Which is why lights and cameras are needed right now. They can track the front and back at 360 degrees, but only on a limited plane. If you were to put it in 3D terms, right now you got a pizza pan but you want to emulate a 6ft tall cylinder. There is actually better detection devices out there but they are way too expensive for the home electronics market. The current VR is maybe at the Atari 2600 stage to where its going to be in a few years.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by tjritter79

VR is still an evolving technology. It will grow by leaps and bounds before we see viable applications we use everyday switch to this platform. The main problem right now is being able to process changes in depth as the person moves. Which is why lights and cameras are needed right now. They can track the front and back at 360 degrees, but only on a limited plane. If you were to put it in 3D terms, right now you got a pizza pan but you want to emulate a 6ft tall cylinder. There is actually better detection devices out there but they are way too expensive for the home electronics market. The current VR is maybe at the Atari 2600 stage to where its going to be in a few years.

Even now, the ability to transport you to another world is quite staggering. The immersion is far more important than the graphics. Like you say, that will come.

[tjritter79]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Even now, the ability to transport you to another world is quite staggering. The immersion is far more important than the graphics. Like you say, that will come.

I actually had a chance to test the HoloLens, I declined because I didn't want to be involved too in-depth in that type of device. I have been a MS Insider for several years and have been a tester of beta versions of their SW since Windows 2000, a perk also of my job at IBM. It's not that I don't think that a VR viewer cannot be useful as a tool in time, I just think right now because the technology is so limited I felt my input would be both biased and negative. The uses that I foresee for this device go way beyond gaming, I can see this as necessary in times for both medical & military applications. Perhaps we'll live in a world where this is so....and human life will be regarded as sacred as it should be. Until then, well lets just say it'll be exploited to its limits and leave it at that.

[tjritter79]

Hey, about a week ago I somehow found this guy's vid on YT regarding speculation of the PS5. Without angering people, I think his theories are either right on the nose, or very close. A lot of this is what I was told when the Pro was introduced...and a lot is what my friends who are developers echoed as well.

The Wild PlayStation 5 Rumors Are Already Beginning... - YouTube

Yes, I commented on his video. Most is the same I mentioned on the other board.
Granted it IS ALL SPECULATION but it is where the industry is heading. Again, this is assuming a console is released in 2021. We're nearly at that point where 2020 is too soon. Unless of course you want a duplication of the PS3 release...

[Steelmaker]

Originally Posted by tjritter79

Hey, about a week ago I somehow found this guy's vid on YT regarding speculation of the PS5. Without angering people, I think his theories are either right on the nose, or very close. A lot of this is what I was told when the Pro was introduced...and a lot is what my friends who are developers echoed as well.

The Wild PlayStation 5 Rumors Are Already Beginning... - YouTube

Yes, I commented on his video. Most is the same I mentioned on the other board.
Granted it IS ALL SPECULATION but it is where the industry is heading. Again, this is assuming a console is released in 2021. We're nearly at that point where 2020 is too soon. Unless of course you want a duplication of the PS3 release...

I disagree with him on the impact of bringing out a next gen console so soon after the PS4 Pro. The reason I disagree is, compared to the number of standard PS4's in the wild, the PS4 Pro userbase is relatively small. I don't think Sony is all THAT concerned with pissing off such a small percentage of their userbase by bringing out a new console 3 years after the Pro came out, especially when you consider that pretty much every other form of electronic releases a new model annually. I still think 2019 is the year, 2020 at the absolute latest. I can't see any scenario where Sony waits until 2021 unless the world faces another financial crisis the way it did in 2008/2009.