Funimation to Acquire Crunchyroll (Crunchyroll to swallow Funimation content)

[gundamcero]

Originally Posted by gloomranger

What the hell is even your point? The content has always been the draw, however North American fans still consumed those shows through their English dubs. You can huff and puff about how unnecessary dubs are, but I’d argue Dragon Ball Z, Pokémon, and Sailor Moon wouldn’t be what they are today without their English counterparts.

Even as some who doesn't watch dubs this is 100% true.

[ps3bd_owner]

Originally Posted by MOONPHASE

And in America we are still treating anything that’s Animated is only for small children. It’s 2022 dude.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMh-SGs3Wv4

Who even cares about the Oscars nowadays.

[Bobo1313]

Originally Posted by gloomranger

What the hell is even your point? The content has always been the draw, however North American fans still consumed those shows through their English dubs. You can huff and puff about how unnecessary dubs are, but I’d argue Dragon Ball Z, Pokémon, and Sailor Moon wouldn’t be what they are today without their English counterparts.

I could be wrong, but I think he's trying to say the dub is the draw, not the dub actors.

[Glorian]

Originally Posted by Bobo1313

I could be wrong, but I think he's trying to say the dub is the draw, not the dub actors.

That's how I read it too; in other words, the argument is that the dub voice actors don't uniquely contribute to the value of the dub. It's not Harrison Ford for Indiana Jones, it's a generic contribution that's replaceable, with the implication that makes any given performance less valuable.

Whether you agree with that point or not, I didn't read them as commenting on the use of a dub in general, but on the dollar value of a generic performance only being used in a release for part of the world (with others being done elsewhere), and completed in a small number of sessions.

[Member-571539]

Originally Posted by Bobo1313

I could be wrong, but I think he's trying to say the dub is the draw, not the dub actors.

Originally Posted by Glorian

That's how I read it too; in other words, the argument is that the dub voice actors don't uniquely contribute to the value of the dub. It's not Harrison Ford for Indiana Jones, it's a generic contribution that's replaceable, with the implication that makes any given performance less valuable.

I’d still have to disagree. There’s a reason voice actors are pretty big draws at anime conventions. Fans actually like to meet the voices behind their favorite characters. It’s how people know who the hell Crispin Freeman, Johnny Yong Bosch, and Wendee Lee are.

If dub actors didn’t matter then there would have been no reason to bring back the same casts for Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood, the Fruits Basket remake, Hellsing Ultimate, a good chunk of Lupin the Third, or even the Rebuild of Evangelion films.

It’s fine if you don’t like English dubs. Most of the time I don’t either, but to think the actors involved in said productions don’t deserve to be paid fairly is absurd. I’ll never understand the hostility some folks have for something that doesn’t affect them whatsoever. It’s just really, really sad.

https://twitter.com/kaijitang/status...boPdf3MTEuSuEg

Originally Posted by Kaiji Tang

You know what would make your Anime dubs sound amazing?

A week's worth of prep per episode. A day where the actors can have a table read. Actual rehearsal time.

Instead we have to be master cold readers week after week.

Somewhere else all that new cash can go.

[GeoffOliver]

Also, long before his mess, FUNi used Vic Mignogna as a selling point in their Level E trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/supported_br...tube.com/watch

I’d also argue that getting the original English voice casts back were in fact a major selling point for projects like the Berserk movie trilogy, Slayers Revolution/Evolution-R, Black Lagoon: Roberta’s Blood Trail, Tenchi Muyo OVA 3/Ai Tenchi Muyo, Persona 4: The Animation, and even Cowboy Bebop: The Movie (where fans pressured Sony into getting the TV series cast back).

[bigzgod]

Originally Posted by gloomranger

It’s fine if you don’t like English dubs. Most of the time I don’t either, but to think the actors involved in said productions don’t deserve to be paid fairly is absurd. I’ll never understand the hostility some folks have for something that doesn’t affect them whatsoever. It’s just really, really sad.

I never get why people would ever want to wish misery and lower pay on other people. Corporations will just pocket the savings, they won't lower the cost of your monthly plan and they'll still raise their prices whenever they think they can get away with it or want more $ (see Netflix).

Corporations are not your friend.

[Bobo1313]

Originally Posted by bigzgod

I never get why people would ever want to wish misery and lower pay on other people. Corporations will just pocket the savings, they won't lower the cost of your monthly plan and they'll still raise their prices whenever they think they can get away with it or want more $ (see Netflix).

Corporations are not your friend.

Come on, no one is wishing misery and slave wages on them. When they tell us they want to be paid fairly out in public, its only natural for people to discuss what they think is a fair wage for that line of work.

This whole discussion started from an unreliable twitter post. The poster said Viz produced/distributed JJK0, later admitting he was wrong and Crunchyroll actually did. So he doesn't know who distributed and produced the dub, but knows their monetary budget? It was also devoid of any details. I'll take his "fun fact" with a grain of salt.

[FullmetalClover]

It looks like Right Stuf now lists everything as Funimation/Crunchyroll:
https://www.rightstufanime.com/publi...ON-CRUNCHYROLL

[Takao]

I wasn't arguing against producing dubs, nor am I asking for people to be paid less. My first comment ends by asking what the voice actors feel would be fair pay and that was a genuine question.

We live in a time where Hollywood star power has never meant so little. Most people watch things because of the brand attached to them, not so much because of who's in them. The JJK movie would've made millions in the U.S. regardless of who was in the dub. Yeah, you would've gotten people mad had they replaced the cast, but that wouldn't have caused it to flop. We've seen plenty of dubs and dub casts discarded over the years (including yesterday) with little to no issue. Crunchyroll did not seem to think JJK's dub was even that important. Tellingly, the commercials they ran on U.S. television were all in Japanese and mentioned the subbed screenings first. We don't have the split, but I wouldn't be surprised if the dubbed screenings represent the minority of that film's gross in the U.S.

Again, I'm asking what would fair pay look like for these actors for a few hours of work (that they apparently didn't even leave the house to do) that wasn't integral to a project's success? If the actors disagree with my view of things, why are they accepting contracts with such low fees? The JJK movie being that popular might've been a surprise, but it being successful at all wasn't.

[Lum]

Originally Posted by Bobo1313

I could be wrong, but I think he's trying to say the dub is the draw, not the dub actors.

I'm not one to fixate on the cast or recording studio. Still, dubs were the gateway to a wider world. I can't imagine re-watching decades of subbed Pokemon, least of all when several seasons don't even HAVE viable subs. (neither Johto or Advance Generation are complete)

[A-Man999]

Originally Posted by GeoffOliver

Also, long before his mess, FUNi used Vic Mignogna as a selling point in their Level E trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/supported_br...tube.com/watch

I’d also argue that getting the original English voice casts back were in fact a major selling point for projects like the Berserk movie trilogy, Slayers Revolution/Evolution-R, Black Lagoon: Roberta’s Blood Trail, Tenchi Muyo OVA 3/Ai Tenchi Muyo, Persona 4: The Animation, and even Cowboy Bebop: The Movie (where fans pressured Sony into getting the TV series cast back).

Yeah, even the redubs of the NGE movie trilogy plus the dub on the new one (though it was mostly pushed on Twitter) heavily sold on the OG ADV dub actors coming back (Spike as Shinji, Allison as Misato, AWL as Rei, Tiffany as Asuka).

Though I do admit the Netflix redub had perfect casting choices on paper (i.e - Casey sounds way closer to Ogata's voice than Spike ever could); they just needed a better script and direction.

[GeoffOliver]

Dubbing is some of the most difficult voiceover work out there because it requires a technical skill to match the timing and the lip flaps while giving a good performance. It's not easy, and even Tara Strong says she admires dubbing actors for that reason. It also often comes with the same vocally stressful challenges as video games, like screaming for hours at a time. The actors absolutely deserve union contracts and fair compensation for those reasons alone. "A few hours work" doing any vocally stressful voice work that requires a specific skillset is not exactly the same as a "few hours work" at Starbucks. When a working actor needs work, oftentimes they can't afford to be picky about the contracts they are given (I should know, I'm a working actor myself). Plenty of anime voice acting veterans turn down dubbing contracts, even union dubbing contracts, when they've worked their careers up and don't need the work anymore. That's why you don't hear Steve Blum, Laura Bailey, Troy Baker, and Ashly Burch in anime much anymore.

And dubs are absolutely internal for any anime to reach a wide audience in the US. Why do FUNimation, Crunchyroll, and Sentai prioritize their simuldubs so much? Why are English dub voice actors a huge staple of conventions? Some of them make most of their income from the con circuit in fact.

Also, being an anime voice actor can be quite thankless sometimes. Look at the hate and negativity they often have to put up with from some corners of the fandom. Hopefully it's not as bad as it used to be though.

Originally Posted by A-Man999

Yeah, even the redubs of the NGE movie trilogy plus the dub on the new one (though it was mostly pushed on Twitter) heavily sold on the OG ADV dub actors coming back (Spike as Shinji, Allison as Misato, AWL as Rei, Tiffany as Asuka).

Though I do admit the Netflix redub had perfect casting choices on paper (i.e - Casey sounds way closer to Ogata's voice than Spike ever could); they just needed a better script and direction.

Oh the Netflix Eva dub had a very talented cast; the dub was just ruined by an extremely dry script, among other issues. What a wasted opportunity. Also, no matter how good they did or didn't sound, they just weren't the English Eva cast fans were used to. Eva's original dub has been pretty well known for decades, and according to Joe Fria, the ADR director of the Prime Video dubs, he chose to get the original English cast back due to the Netflix dub's backlash, even though he admired the dub itself.

Originally Posted by Takao

We've seen plenty of dubs and dub casts discarded over the years (including yesterday) with little to no issue.

Not every dub cast is received the same way. Replacing the Prince of Tennis dub cast is not the same as replacing Cowboy Bebop's, Black Lagoon's, or Fullmetal Alchemist's. Prince of Tennis bombed in its original release, and very few fondly remember its dub. Also, around the same time FUNi worked hard to get Black Lagoon's cast back for Roberta's Blood Trail, they replaced Shakugan no Shana's original Ocean cast. While there was some controversy, it was quite small compared to the ensuing backlash that would've occurred if they didn't get Brad Swaile, Maryke Hendrikse, Tabitha St. Germain, etc back for Black Lagoon. Shana was never a huge hit, and its season 1 Ocean dub had a mixed reception, wheres Black Lagoon was a massive hit with a very, very well-received dub.
When the DBZ dub cast was replaced, it was quite controversial at first, and it took years for fans to warm up to FUNi's cast. The original dub still has a big enough fanbase to warrant FUNi giving it its own limited edition boxset. Pokemon's dub cast change was extremely controversial, and I would argue that it never completely died down among the fanbase. By the time the cast was replaced, the show was already a shell of its former self popularity-wise in the US. And Sailor Moon's new dub was marketed as an entirely new version, and fans had been begging for an uncut redub for years. However, the original dub still has a huge nostalgic fanbase of its own, and if it was possible for Viz to release it, I'm sure a hypothetical boxset of the original dub would be at least as successful as FUNi's "Rock the Dragon" boxset. I'm not even getting into the various classic dubs Discotek has included in their re-releases for various shows as major selling points.

[MOONPHASE]

While not Anime except for just some involvement with Toei but related to Voice Acting, Miraculous Ladybug’s cast is being recasted.

YouTube

[InuYashaCrusade]

Didn't something similar happen with Yokai Watch? They got rid of everyone for cheaper VAs. Same thing TPCI did with Pokemon way back when too.

[MOONPHASE]

Originally Posted by InuYashaCrusade

Didn't something similar happen with Yokai Watch? They got rid of everyone for cheaper VAs. Same thing TPCI did with Pokemon way back when too.

Yup they did. Viewership of Anime on Disney XD is usually never that great compared to other networks. So they replaced Yokai Watch’s original English Cast for cheaper ones for Season 3 because they knew that the viewership was declining but still wanted to continue. But ultimately the viewership was still going down on it and ended up canceling it all together.

[GeoffOliver]

Originally Posted by InuYashaCrusade

Didn't something similar happen with Yokai Watch? They got rid of everyone for cheaper VAs. Same thing TPCI did with Pokemon way back when too.

With Pokemon, not only were the replacement voice actors working for less money, but apparently the original cast had a 2-year no compete clause in their contracts with 4Kids in regards to the franchise, which meant they were not allowed to work on the series for anybody else. That's also the reason why the vast majority of FUNimation's Rebuild of Evangelion cast could not return for the Prime Video dubs.

[Mangaranga]

Originally Posted by A-Man999

they just needed a better script and direction.

Unfortunately, Eva has been cursed with this problem ever since Khara decided to take a heavy handed approach to localisation. Amazon's redubs of the rebuild series are absolutely awful because of the script and poor direction. Even the main characters - who have proven they can provide very strong performances in the Funi dub - sound absolutely atrocious compared to their original performances. It's actually pretty shocking.

Originally Posted by GeoffOliver

That's also the reason why the vast majority of FUNimation's Rebuild of Evangelion cast could not return for the Prime Video dubs.

Interesting if true. Got a source for this?

[GeoffOliver]

Originally Posted by Mangaranga

Unfortunately, Eva has been cursed with this problem ever since Khara decided to take a heavy handed approach to localisation. Amazon's redubs of the rebuild series are absolutely awful because of the script and poor direction. Even the main characters - who have proven they can provide very strong performances in the Funi dub - sound absolutely atrocious compared to their original performances. It's actually pretty shocking.


Interesting if true. Got a source for this?

For Eva? It was an interview that Joe Fria (the voice director of the Prime Video dubs) did with The Cartoon Cypher a few months ago, but it looks like it’s no longer available.

For Pokémon? I remember Mike Pollack mentioning it in the comments of a post on his FB page years ago. He was the narrator when the show was recast, and the original narrator (Roger Parsons) was allowed to return because he was not currently working on the show, and thus not affected by the contract.

[One-Eye]

Originally Posted by Mangaranga

Unfortunately, Eva has been cursed with this problem ever since Khara decided to take a heavy handed approach to localisation. Amazon's redubs of the rebuild series are absolutely awful because of the script and poor direction. Even the main characters - who have proven they can provide very strong performances in the Funi dub - sound absolutely atrocious compared to their original performances. It's actually pretty shocking.

Interesting if true. Got a source for this?

I agree the redubs are exceptionally awful.

It was alluded to in the interview with Joe Fria. Unfortunately that interview seems to have disappeared but there is a summary on EvaGeeks.

Highlights:

[Show spoiler]- Eva is Joe Fria's first foray into anime dubbing; Dubbing Bros. mostly dubs live action works.
- Dubbing Bros. was not allowed to adapt Kanemitsu's script for 3.0+1.01, they were allowed to adapt the scripts for 1.11, 2.22, and 3.33 a bit.
- Neither Fria or Khara are 100% happy with how the dubs turned out, Fria mentions being disappointed with the "sync" due to not being allowed to adapt the script for lip flaps while he says certain things (not specified what) Kanemitsu and Khara wanted didn't end up happening.
- Kanemitsu preferred "Don't run away" due to it being a direct order Shinji is giving himself.
- Amazon originally only intended to dub 3.0+1.01 before deciding to redub the first three movies. Fria speculates (and says he's only speculating) that FUNimation holds the rights to their dubs for the the first three movies.

- Certain actors from the FUNimation dubs (not specified who) were not available to reprise their roles in the Amazon dubs due to the contracts they had with FUNimation.

[Show spoiler]- Due to dubbing the films remotely, the actors were unable to hear the music and effects track while recording (implication this isn't normally the case).
- A snowstorm in Texas caused issues with Allison Keith and John Swasey's remote recordings; Allison had no power for five days where they couldn't get a hold of her at all. Allison also had to work around her regular job as a real estate agent.
- Fria decided to bring back the old cast. Amazon was open to whatever Fria wanted to do, gave them the option to recast the series and Fria mentioned he likes the Netflix dub as well. Fria decided to bring back a much of the old cast as possible to please the fans.
- Fria and his production partner Veronica Valencia (credited as the Production Manager in the Amazon dubs) first approached as many members of the original ADV cast as they could and if an actor was unable to reprise they moved on to the next actor from Manga or FUNimation. Once Amanda Winn Lee was brought on, she helped get in touch with members of the Manga cast like Amy Steeley and Michael Ross.

[Show spoiler]- Fria doesn't audition roles unless it is requested by the client; this included the new actors for these dubs like Daman Mills or Mary Faber.
- Spike's time zone resulted in him recording later in the day than the rest. They also worked around his schedule being in culinary school and his new baby.
- Fria voiced Hyuga specifically to honor the tradition of the ADR person voicing him in the ADV, Manga, and FUNimation dubs.
- Mark Skibo (credited as Localization Quality Assurance in the Amazon dubs) worked for Amazon and acted as the liaison between Dubbing Bros. and Khara, often helping to make the case for changes Dubbing Bros. wanted.
- Every decision about the dub was ultimately ran through and approved by Kanemitsu.
- Leaving in the Japanese screams and grunts was not a mistake but an intentional choice made on most Dubbing Bros. productions. Fria mentions that he thinks a lot of those sounds tend to not come across authentic when dubbed.
- At least one of Mari's songs was left in Japanese because it's layered in the background and they (didn't specify if he means Dubbing Bros. or Amazon) didn't want to get the rights to the song to dub it.
- The loud scream of Asuka's that's missing during the "power of an angel" scene was not removed intentionally.