Official Denon Owners Thread

[bigzee3]

Originally Posted by BIslander

In looking at the manual for the 4802, I don't see a setting to boost the SW for the Ext. Inputs. Perhaps that got added in a subsequent model year. But, the lack of a setting that applies the analog SW boost may make calibrating much more difficult.

Denons have master channel levels that are set in the system set-up. Then, you can adjust them separately for each surround mode. In later models, Ext. In is considered a surround mode for these purposes and that's mentioned specifically in the manual. But, I don't see the same thing in the 4802 manual. It does not mention Ext. In as a surround mode that can be used to trim channel levels. But, perhaps it works that way anyway. Give it a try and see.

At any rate, after reading the manual, I'm not sure how to go about boosting the sub for analog without affecting your digital set-up.

Thanks for info I made a mistake calling it boost it was the above mentioned master channel level which can be used thru ext-in. Last night gave it a try. Put the disc in the player, boosted the denon sub channel +10 and did the spl meter set up for 75db. Came out on the denon as

left 0
center 0
right -1 (a bit strange)
rears +6
sub -4 on player which gave a reading of between 75-77db as recomended by Lordoftherings.

Sub volume was set at between 9-10 o'clock. Did i miss anything?. sounded a lot better than how i was running it.

[BIslander]

Calibrating for EITHER digital OR analog is pretty straightforward. If you are only concerned with analog, you can simply turn up the volume on the sub itself. That will provide the needed 10dB boost. Just grab your SPL meter and adjust the channels until they all measure the same.

But, if you want to be able to play digital and analog without needing to make adjustments every time you switch sources, calibration gets more complicated. Simply turning up the sub to provide the needed analog boost won't work because your digital sources will end up being boosted twice - once by the receiver software and again at the sub. If you want to calibrate for both, the receiver needs to be capable of separate subwoofer trims for digital and analog.

Originally Posted by bigzee3

I made a mistake calling it boost it was the above mentioned master channel level which can be used thru ext-in.

The master channel levels set in the system configuration affect all sources and surround modes. If you boost the sub for analog there, it will also boost the sub output for digital, producing the double boost I mentioned above. But, perhaps you are saying you can adjust levels for Ext. In without affecting the other surround modes?

[LordoftheRings]

1. As long as the Radio Shack SPL level meter is reading 75 dB for all the channels, including the Subwoofer one, you're good to go.

When all is done, simply add 2.5 dB to the subwoofer channel from your Denon receiver that's all.

==> Digital Video Essential, or DVD Video Essential, or Avia (Ovation) disc, all will have the correct calibration channel levels, including the subwoofer one.

__________________________________________________

2. IMPORTANT unrelated NOTE (not concerning your present situation, OP):

* About the Subwoofer level extra boost from the Ext. In (0, +5. +10, +15 dB),
Denon added this feature after the xx02 Series to compensate for the low Subwoofer channel level from SACDs and DVD-Audios.
And they recommended that you set it at +15 dB for exactly that, plus the innacuracy of most SPL meters at lower frequencies.
- Personally I was using the +10 dB setting for my Universal DENON DVD player, and added an extra 2.5 dB or 3 to the separate Subwoofer channel.
...Which was real close to Denon's recommendation.

__________________________________________________

3. Finally, there is a separate "LFE (Low Frequency Effect)" adjustment for DD and DTS audio soundtracks. This should be set to 0 dB for both of these audio formats. That is for all Movies.

* Now, ONLY when you play DTS encoded Music software, that you need to set it to -10 dB.

==> And don't forget to set the "D.COM. (Dynamic Range Compression)" to "OFF".

I think that's all!

[bigzee3]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Calibrating for EITHER digital OR analog is pretty straightforward. If you are only concerned with analog, you can simply turn up the volume on the sub itself. That will provide the needed 10dB boost. Just grab your SPL meter and adjust the channels until they all measure the same.

But, if you want to be able to play digital and analog without needing to make adjustments every time you switch sources, calibration gets more complicated. Simply turning up the sub to provide the needed analog boost won't work because your digital sources will end up being boosted twice - once by the receiver software and again at the sub. If you want to calibrate for both, the receiver needs to be capable of separate subwoofer trims for digital and analog.
The master channel levels set in the system configuration affect all sources and surround modes. If you boost the sub for analog there, it will also boost the sub output for digital, producing the double boost I mentioned above. But, perhaps you are saying you can adjust levels for Ext. In without affecting the other surround modes?

Was able to adjust ext-in levels without affecting other surround modes however if i go back to set the original surround modes it does effect all setting including ext-in levels so i checked all the original surround settings before doing the ext-in ones.

[bigzee3]

[QUOTE=LordoftheRings;3579547]1. As long as the Radio Shack SPL level meter is reading 75 dB for all the channels, including the Subwoofer one, you're good to go.

When all is done, simply add 2.5 dB to the subwoofer channel from your Denon receiver that's all.

==> Digital Video Essential, or DVD Video Essential, or Avia (Ovation) disc, all will have the correct calibration channel levels, including the subwoofer one.

I added the 2.5 db with the spl meter. it end up being +10 on denon sub channel and -4 on player that gave me that reading. with player set at -5 the spl reading was 75db so should i then run the denon sub channel at 12 to get the extra db?

[pawarujie]

Im using AVR 2808 and BDP 1610. My previous set-up includes AVR3802 and DVD1920. Once a Denon, Always a Denon? Cheers.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by bigzee3

I added the 2.5 db with the spl meter. it end up being +10 on denon sub channel and -4 on player that gave me that reading. with player set at -5 the spl reading was 75db so should i then run the denon sub channel at 12 to get the extra db?

Oups! I missed your post!

- First, set all the channel's levels to 0 dB from your player itself. You have to adjust their distances though.
- Then calibrate and adjust the balance of all the channel levels only from your Denon receiver, using the Shack analog meter and a test disc.
- When all done, then add that 2.5 dBs to the Subwoofer channel, from your Denon receiver.

Oh, and because you'll set to 0 dB from your player ALL the channel levels, you'll end up being +14 dB or so from your Denon receiver, which is over its own limit. => So, you'll have to lower the "Gain" (Volume level) from the rear of your subwoofer itself. Try at 1/4 to 1/3 max (9 to 10 o'clock about) from its "Gain Control" knob.
- And the 'Low Pass Filter' control knob from the rear of your sub too should be set to "Bypass",
or if not available, to its highest position.
- Also, set the 'Phase' control knob or switch to 0 degree.

Then, only after your subwoofer itself is set up properly that you do the calibration process (balancing the channel levels) from your Denon receiver.

[sarge1976]

Hi guys, I'm thinking about selling my Pioneer Elite SC-27 and getting a Denon 4810CI. I really like the features on the Denon such as the 9.3 channels, Dolby PLIIz,HD Radio and more. It seems to have a lot more features than my SC-27 and since Pioneer pretty much dropped the ball this year with it's lack of new features besides HDMI 1.4a. I could care less about 3D so the 1.4a doesn't matter much. I really like the options of adding 2 more subs if I want and the height and width channels. How do you guys like this AVR? I won't be using the amp section since I have my 2 Emotiva amps. How is the auto EQ setup? Thanks

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by sarge1976

Hi guys, I'm thinking about selling my Pioneer Elite SC-27 and getting a Denon 4810CI. I really like the features on the Denon such as the 9.3 channels, Dolby PLIIz,HD Radio and more. It seems to have a lot more features than my SC-27 and since Pioneer pretty much dropped the ball this year with it's lack of new features besides HDMI 1.4a. I could care less about 3D so the 1.4a doesn't matter much. I really like the options of adding 2 more subs if I want and the height and width channels. How do you guys like this AVR? I won't be using the amp section since I have my 2 Emotiva amps. How is the auto EQ setup? Thanks

A lot of people are going to sell their 4810 in order to get the new much improved Audyssey MultEQ XT32. Wait, or check the 4311 instead.
...Or Onkyo 3008/5008. Onkyo is better in my opinion for those two separate sub's adjustments, which the Denons don't have.

[sarge1976]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

A lot of people are going to sell their 4810 in order to get the new much improved Audyssey MultEQ XT32. Wait, or check the 4311 instead.
...Or Onkyo 3008/5008. Onkyo is better in my opinion for those two separate sub's adjustments, which the Denons don't have.

Hi LOTR, what is the MultEQ XT32? Onkyo has seperate sub ajustments? I haven't heard of the 4311 being released anytime soon. I like Onkyo as I am running my old 805 while my main AVR is being fixed but I wish they would change their look a little bit. All Onkyo AVRs look the same

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by sarge1976

Hi LOTR, what is the MultEQ XT32? Onkyo has seperate sub ajustments? I haven't heard of the 4311 being released anytime soon. I like Onkyo as I am running my old 805 while my main AVR is being fixed but I wish they would change their look a little bit. All Onkyo AVRs look the same

Alright, Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is the newest and higest resolution of EQ filters (FIR) that has 4 times the resolution in the Subwoofer channel as compared to its predecessor, the one with XT only (without the 32), and also 32 times (hence the #32) the resolution in the Satellite channels, again as compared to his last predecessor.

Now, you can find more by going to Audssey's own website, just by googling it.

The Denon AVR-4311CI should be released very soon, as we are now in the September month (less than 2 hours to go). Can't be 100% sure though, my memory is already playing tricks on me. But I'm sure it is within the next couple months. Just check at AVS, or Denon newest press releases.

As for the two separate set of parameter's adjustments for two differently positioned subwoofers from Onkyo/Integra offerings in thei higher end products, it is the REAL DEAL!
You need to read reviews regarding these products or by professional reviewers or by the owners themselves. ...But let me tell you this, a lot of people even among professional reviewers don't fully grasp the full extent of the tremendous benefit that this has in our own rooms; it is again the REAL DEAL, the place where ALL of us can greatly benefit from another higher level all together of Audio quality (Nirvana).

I don't know why Denon, Yamaha, Marantz, NAD, Rotel, Arcam, Anthem, Classe, Cary, Theta, Krell, Pioneer Elite, Sherwood Newcastle, Sony, ...are waiting for, but Onkyo/Integra right now is way ahead in that VERY IMPORTANT AUDIO QUALITY game. Well to at least include it in their receivers and pre/pros, without any additional separate add-ons.

But, don't worry, other manufacturers are going to play catch up, if they don't want to go in vacation in the Sahara desert!

Room's acoustics is all about Audio quality, and Bass frequencies are some of the very most important ones in the full audio spectrum (from the human range and beyond...). But other audio frequencies are benefitting automatically when improving the lower ones, by adding more clarity and expressions as intended from the Maestros, by the Virtuosos of celestial and soulfulness music inspired directly by the spirits of the various Gods from the entire universe with all its constellations and galaxies...

Are you getting my draft?

[Dase]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

As for the two separate set of parameter's adjustments for two differently positioned subwoofers from Onkyo/Integra offerings in thei higher end products, it is the REAL DEAL!
You need to read reviews regarding these products or by professional reviewers or by the owners themselves. ...But let me tell you this, a lot of people even among professional reviewers don't fully grasp the full extent of the tremendous benefit that this has in our own rooms; it is again the REAL DEAL, the place where ALL of us can greatly benefit from another higher level all together of Audio quality (Nirvana).

Ok lets not get too crazy here, this sounds like a semi sales pitch. If professionals don't understand or fully grasp then who does? Some like it, some don't. While the separate adjustments offerend in the Onkyo/Integra offerings are indeed nice, and some people have had success with them, it is important to not discount that one of the many beauties of this hobby is the ability to have a vast number of options, all of which are good. It is however, up to the end user to decide which option set is best, no matter from which manufacturer, and will sound more suitable to them. After all everyone hears differently .

Further, one of the new Denon's will be equipped with Multieq XT32, which not only provides 32 times the resolution of the current multieq XT (as you stated), but it also is able to provide the user with the option to calibrate all subs to a single correction curve. The idea behind this is provide the best inegration of the subs into the system possible. Some people have been raving for an option like this (audioholics included), others I'm sure will not like it as much. But it's always good to have options.

I get that you like Onkyo/Integra, and that is perfectly fine as they do make great products. But you are in the Denon thread, and most all of the people in here picked them for a reason.

The question was about the 4810, and it is indeed a fine piece of equipment. However, with the 4311 just around the corner, and the incredible feature set it offers (including a pre-amp mode ), If you are interested in the Denon's Sarge, I would wait it out for it. My dealer says he will have them in 2 weeks.

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

by adding more clarity and expressions as intended from the Maestros, by the Virtuosos of celestial and soulfulness music inspired directly by the spirits of the various Gods from the entire universe with all its constellations and galaxies...

Are you getting my draft?

nope, not getting it...

[LordoftheRings]

^ Cool post!

* By the way, I own several Denon products and most of them I luv. So is Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer, Rotel and few more...

[Dase]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

^ Cool post!

* By the way, I own several Denon products and most of them I luv. So is Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer, Rotel and few more...

I would love to try more to see if I like anything better, but it is expensive to do so .

The Denon 4311 also has the new Audyssey subEQHT, which will also allow for independent equalization of the subs. Good stuff!

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Dase

I would love to try more to see if I like anything better, but it is expensive to do so .

Not if you can get loaners from your dealer(s). ...Demo models that you can test at home over the weekend, in exchange for a deposit that you'll get back in return of the product.

The Denon 4311 also has the new Audyssey subEQHT, which will also allow for independent equalization of the subs. Good stuff!

Cool!

[gregodorizzi]

Just set up the 3311Ci and was pleasantly surprised with the remote given all the unfavorable words about them (maybe it was updated). My question: is it possible to program the Denon remote so that it can control Comcast on-demand or Comcast 'favorite' guides? Is there a recall button on the Denon remote that takes me back to the previously viewed channel?

For what it's worth, this was my first receiver of any kind, and I found it remarkably easy to get it fired up (seemingly the right way).

[gregodorizzi]

Originally Posted by gregodorizzi

Just set up the 3311Ci and was pleasantly surprised with the remote given all the unfavorable words about them (maybe it was updated). My question: is it possible to program the Denon remote so that it can control Comcast on-demand or Comcast 'favorite' guides? Is there a recall button on the Denon remote that takes me back to the previously viewed channel?

For what it's worth, this was my first receiver of any kind, and I found it remarkably easy to get it fired up (seemingly the right way).

To ward off an overwhelming number of replies, let me report that I've answered my questions. To access the on-demand feature of comcast on the denon remote, select 'SAT/CBL' on the remote, then 'MENU' on the remote, then select the on-demand feature in the pop-up that appears on the display. Do the same to access your favorites.

[Dase]

Glad you figured it out man. Yeah, Denon doesn't get the same amount of love here that they do on other forums. The Pioneer crowd is the majority in these parts.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Dase

Glad you figured it out man. Yeah, Denon doesn't get the same amount of love here that they do on other forums. The Pioneer crowd is the majority in these parts.

About Yamaha? ...Marantz? ...Onkyo?

* What is the brand of receiver that Blu-ray Forum members own/use the most in their own systems?

~ AVS Forum Members?

~ Audioholics Forum members?

[amper]

Hi All, Denon AVR591 owner here. I am writing with two questions:
1st, I noticed a difference in sound with blu-ray vs. dvd. the center channel seems quieter when playing a dvd. I wanted to know if there was a way to have the center channel settings higher for dolby digital and normal for True-HD, DTS_HD, and uncompressed PCM. I havent done the auddisey eq setup cause I dont have a tripod. I like the manual settings except for this discrepancy.
My second question is about the sub. It does not turn on for 2.0 sound. I have various tv shows compressed into avi with mp3 sound, and my old receiver would run the sub when playing them. Is there a way around this?