Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I would rather gouge out my own eyes with a melon baller than to use such an option.

If I want to watch a movie with a group of people I will invite them to my home or I will attend the cinema-- once the plague is over.

There are a bunch of watch party functionality out there. Its just a way to watch movies with friends, even when you’re apart. It a lot more fun when these events have some cast member or someone fun to interact with. There are several ways to do this out there. Its not for everyone but is similar to many other online events where they all watch at once and socialize.

This is just news relating to a a new built in way to do it, instead of using a browser with a extension method they previous used.

Related article

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

There are a bunch of watch party functionality out there. Its just a way to watch movies with friends, even when you’re apart. It a lot more fun when these events have some cast member or someone fun to interact with. There are several ways to do this out there. Its not for everyone but is similar to many other online events where they all watch at once and socialize.

This is just news relating to a a new built in way to do it, instead of using a browser with a extension method they previous used.

Related article

Other people are welcome to do whatever they want, but this functionality is repugnant to me.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Other people are welcome to do whatever they want, but this functionality is repugnant to me.

I should call this by its correct name which is social viewing. Its not just for movie watch parties.

Social viewing describes a recently developed practice revolving around the ability for multiple users to aggregate from multiple sources and view online videos together in a synchronized viewing experience.

Typically the experience also involves some form of instant messaging or communication to facilitate discussion pertaining to the common viewing experience.

This is getting to be more common with people have business meeting with they all works at home and someone is the presenter. All this is allowing "any video online" to be watched and discussed. Kinda another way to run a VTC meeting of sorts.

Ever watch Twitch just another variation of this.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Ever watch Twitch just another variation of this.

Nope. To me a twitch is an involuntary nervous reflex and nothing more.

Streaming is slumming as it is without making it worse by having people randomly interrupting the proceedings with their spontaneous comments.

If I want a commentary track, I will watch a disc that includes one.

[Steedeel]

Family member was in hospital last week and they have just received a call to say two patients have been confirmed as having CV19. I now have to go for a test. Fantastic start to the weekend! My sister can hardly afford to get this virus with her low immune system and my elderly folks need to get tested.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Family member was in hospital last week and they have just received a call to say two patients have been confirmed as having CV19. I now have to go for a test. Fantastic start to the weekend! My sister can hardly afford to get this virus with her low immune system and my elderly folks need to get tested.

I am so sorry to hear that. I very much hope that you and your family are not infected. My best wishes to all of you.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I am so sorry to hear that. I very much hope that you and your family are not infected. My best wishes to all of you.

Thanks mate.

It’s a mess. Can’t get a test because they are flooded with people trying to do the same thing. Need to keep trying for the rest of the morning. Our NHS is swamped.
Sister already Ill, worried sick about her.

[bhampton]

Sorry to hear that. Good luck. Hope for the best.

Hope you don’t get the up the nose test my daughter had to get before returning to collage. it doesn’t actually look safe to me. They cram a long Q tip painfully up your nose. It just didn’t look like it should have to be done like that to me and I’m glad I haven’t had to have that yet.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You not only like to split hairs, you want to break them down to the atomic level. Beware the wall of text that follows! Even I am unwilling to read it. Save yourself and just reply with "TLDR."

I'm not spitting hairs at all... It's not inconsequential, trivial, or unimportant, to point out that there are plenty of poor quality discs, which some people in this thread own, when you are making statements about how much better discs are compared to streaming.

Also, on the contrary, often the differences in quality between a disc version, and a streaming version, are greatly exaggerating in favour of the disc by the pro phyiscal media members that post in this thread, when in fact often that is splitting hairs, because the differences between some discs and streaming versions are so close, that it is could be argued that it is inconsequential, trivial and unimportant.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I have only had all region capability for a couple of years. Many of my imports are region free, too, so you can't just look at my region B discs and assume that is all that I have imported. As for talk about international editions having better PQ/AQ in the U.S. threads, those are often just the opinions of a few forum members who, surprise, live outside the U.S. I am not going to wait longer and spend more to import a disc based just upon the opinions of a few forum members whom I know nothing about. To this day, we have forum members that insist that the entire 4K format, disc or digital, is a scam. I don't take advice from just anyone.

Owning a region free player is pretty much a must if you do value quality like you claim... If you don't have one yet, or have only recently bought one over the last couple of years, then that says to me that quality isn't as important to you to the extend that you make it out it is. Blu-ray launched in 2006, I joined this site in 2010, and I quickly realised that if I wanted the very best quality, I needed one, so I bought my first region free player the following year. I currently own 4 multi-region Blu-ray players. If quality is the highest thing that you value, then waiting 12-14 years to buy a region free player suggests differently.

Originally Posted by Vilya

Generally, when considering a disc purchase I do not visit their threads as they often contain spoilers and a vast array of opinions about anything and everything. I am seldom interested in wading through pages of comments about the shipping statuses of people's orders and other such minutiae. I consider these threads to be more anecdotal than factual. There are some informative posts among all the noise, but finding those few worthwhile comments is like panning for gold while blindfolded.

So how do you determine what the best version is in terms of PQ when you make a purchase then, if you don't read the forums for this? If you rely on so called pro reviews, then that's been a mistake... Plenty of users discover issues that reviewers didn't when they reviewed a disc. For instance, where does the Blu-ray.com reviewer specifically mention the banding that is present on the U.S. theatrical disc of Midsommar in their review, which is extremely bad in a few scenes near the beginning of the movie?:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Midso...246766/#Review

There has been other members that have also mentioned it in the U.S. thread for the title.

You have been a member here for a long time, you should be familiar with regular members that often post about this sort thing, that are trustworthy.

Furthermore, I manage to easily see information about the quality of a title amongst everything in threads, without anything being spoiled for me, I'm not sure why this is difficult for you.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I consider myself to be extremely dissimilar to the typical streaming customer. I suspect that your assertion to the contrary is designed to be provocative, but I will play along as I have nothing better to do at this late hour.

I saw this paragraph earlier before you edited it, smart move, because there was contradiction there.

Originally Posted by Vilya

In addition to the quality advantage of physical media, I prize owning an unchangeable and permanent disc that is in my actual possession. I place great importance upon artistic integrity; streamers not so much; they do not care if content is edited, self-censored, or even removed altogether so long as they have convenient access to a lot of stuff for a very low price.

The previous paragraph that you edited, contradicted this... I won't address it for now, however, I will specifically touch on it if I need to.

Originally Posted by Vilya

When it comes to movies and TV shows, what I want determines what I buy, not the cost. My average spending for discs is $500 per month and that level of spending, that amount of passion for movies and TV shows, is not representative of most streaming customers. Or most anyone for that matter.

I once owned 1200 titles on laserdisc and it was common for me to pay $99.99 to $124.99 each for a Criterion CAV release; those are prices from the 1990s, too, so when adjusted for inflation that amount is far greater. The point here is that few people were ever willing to spend that kind of money to own movies in the best available quality; I have pursued that objective for over 35 years.

Keep up the good work...

Originally Posted by Vilya

I love a sale and a bargain as much as anyone and I would be a not to take advantage of them, but I pay release day prices far more often. I even pay OOP prices as necessary. I am confident that I know what prices I pay and how often I pay them.

I can assure you that I know what motivates my purchase behavior far better than you do. When I buy a new addition to my collection, I believe that I am buying the best edition available as that has been my longstanding goal. I won't always be right, but there will always be people like you to tell me that I am wrong. I am open to reconsidering my decisions, but not upon your word alone. All I know about you is that you have nice taste in shelves.

It doesn't sound like it, by your own admission, you buy titles without doing a great deal of research.

Originally Posted by Vilya

There is nothing that you can say that will convince me that more compression, lower bitrates, is advantageous to the quality of the encode. Yes, some people are quite skilled at compressing data, but their work would look even better if they were not so constrained. Lowering bitrates does not produce better results; it risks the introduction of more obvious compression artifacts. Lowering bitrates is not done for the sake of quality, but for economy.

And this just shows your ignorance... Proof of this exists on site and others, such as cap-a-holic, there is plenty of evidence easily assessible which proves that you are wrong, and that you don't know what you are on about. Perhaps you should take some time to educate yourself on the matter, because it really is a short sighted and silly comment to make. I haven't disputed that a higher bitrate can make a positive difference. If you are going to claim that you don't believe what I have said and nothing will convince you, then it's on you to do some comparing, to prove the people wrong who have actually compared certain titles already, that have made statements about one encode with a lower video bitrate being better than another with a higher bitrate, and/or have also provided evidence of this. If you want to dispute it, then perhaps you should start with Midsommar

Originally Posted by Vilya

The amount of compression used affects the quality of the end product, but so do other things and that is why other aspects, like the usage of DNR, are important. T2 on 4K disc uses a better codec, has a much higher bitrate than any release before it, but it still looks worse than the 2015 blu-ray release according to the overwhelming consensus of our fellow forum members

Which ones of us did you say seems to prefer arguing for the sake of it in the next paragraph below? You sure do love bringing up things like this when we are having conversations, in an attempt to create a point to try to save face, when it's completely irrelevant... The topic isn't about different masters, and any filtering that has been done, it's about the quality of encodes. Many of you consistently make the claim in this thread about it, that discs are superior to streaming in this regard, when they are not always!

Originally Posted by Vilya

You kind of come across as condescending in your replies to not only me, but also earlier with Ender14. Maybe you just enjoy playing devil's advocate; arguing just to argue? If someone told you that liquid water was wet, you'd probably contest the comment.

I could say that same about your posts. If that's how you feel, I can't control that. They're not meant to be condescending in anyway.

A lot of things that Alchav21 says are incorrect, and he does get called out for it, and the same should apply to you. Alchav21 did make a valid point, what you have said in response this is incorrect in this instance. However, that hasn't stopped the group of you that favour phyical media, from disregarding it, and ganging up on him about it. In instances like this, I am happy to stand side by side with him, to help him defend his position.

[bhampton]

Ok cevolution you inspired me to setup my ignore list.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Ok cevolution you are the first and so far only member of my ignore list

That's your prerogative... Seems a bit petty too me though, are you that bias and in love with physical media, that even though what I have said about encodes is a fact, you're offended by it, and can't accept it, to the point where you need to put your fingers in your ears

[AreaFive]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

Which ones of us did you say seems to prefer arguing for the sake of it in the next paragraph below? You sure do love bringing up things like this when we are having conversations, in an attempt to create a point to try to save face, when it's completely irrelevant...

I'll happily give you credit for enthusiasm but when one finds themselves debating the details of which party prefers arguing it's time step away and take a break for a bit.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by AreaFive

I'll happily give you credit for enthusiasm but when one finds themselves debating the details of which party prefers arguing it's time step away and take a break for a bit.

Which is a great idea

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

Seems a bit petty too me though, are you that bias and in love with physical media, that even though what I have said about encodes is a fact, you're offended by it, and can't accept it, to the point where you need to put your fingers in your ears

Perhaps it would help if folks had more information about yourself as in are you a software engineer specializing in DCT entropy video compression, a member of the x265 team, etc. If true, do you have a LinkedIn account where your credentials are listed?

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Perhaps it would help if folks had more information about yourself as in are you a software engineer specializing in DCT entropy video compression, a member of the x265 team, etc. If true, do you have a LinkedIn account where your credentials are listed?

I don't work in the industry. I'm certainly no David M, who I referenced for his exceptional encoding work in one of my other posts today. What are you getting at here though, that someone needs to work in the industry, to be able to evaluate and compare the encodes of multiple disc versions of a title to each other, and to streaming versions, otherwise their findings are essentially meaningless and have little merit?

[Wendell R. Breland]

@ Donster

If you are still reading this thread SpaceX Starlink has submitted their test results to the FCC and they are quite good for satellite internet. > 100 Mbps down and 40 Mbps up with latency similar to landlines. The test were done by third parties.

Have not looked into required dish size or cost of service. Hope both are reasonable. I have kin that does not have access to high speed service and hope this service works out for them.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

What are you getting at here though, that someone needs to work in the industry, to be able to evaluate and compare the encodes of multiple disc versions of a title to each other, and to streaming versions, otherwise their findings are essentially meaningless and have little merit?

Just found it strange that you would argue that lower bit rates are better than higher bit rates. ALL else being equal, higher bit rates produces a more faithful reproduction (higher PSNR) of the original. Period.

Can a encode with an average of 20 Mbps with a near flawless source look better than an encode with an average 25 Mbps with a flawed source? Sure it can. Way to many variables involved in source to home for one to know why one video may be better or worse than another.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Fibre networks are irrelevant.

I would not go that far. People just need to understand the basics.

The analogy is not perfect but having a sports car that can do 200km/h does not benefit in how fast you will get there if you drive the speed limit at 100 km/h. And having the highway near my home say limit 100 km/h does not help to get there faster if the rest of the cars on the highway are going 20km/h because of traffic.

In that way you are right and as long as you have higher speeds it is irrelevant.

But, and this is a big but, if I change that analogy and assume there are 7 people that need to go from A to B a fancy sports car will mean needing to go back and forth 6 times and a minivan that fist everyone will mean one trip and do it faster.

a 150, 300 Mb connection can reach BD quality for one person (assuming it is matched on the other end) but 150 can't if there are two people watching at the same time on different devices but 300 can.

so in that case home speed is not irrelevent.

You know this. Netflix are shaving more bits from their service and I believe that means full HD at 1.5-2Mbps. Even if they do manage the same quality, backgrounds suffer from posterisation as it is. That’s not the future for AV lovers, it’s the future for Dave and his ‘soccer mum’ wife.

agree.

Originally Posted by bhampton

This is something that Alchav21 brings up again and again and honestly I don’t think he understands that his network connection can be over qualified but the streaming services offer very low quality encodes because they have to cater to all levels of network connections.

When a movie comes to streaming it’s stripped of 90% of its data so it can be steamed over average connections. There isn’t a separate high quality version for people with better network connections.

Having a better connection doesn’t result in a better steaming experience once the connection is good enough.

streaming can offer different quality to different users. So technically there is nothing stopping them from offering high quality to people that are willing to spend a small fortune monthly on an internet connection.

The real issue is that offering higher quality has a real big cost to the streaming provider. So it is simply an economical one for the streaming provider. Will the person that can handle and wants 100Mb stream be willing to pay 20x (or what ever makes economic sense for the streaming provider) over the base service.

Further more even if the market is enough and the streaming provider goes for it what happens when (for what ever reason) the stream does not reach that high quality? will the customer become a major pain, drop his contract....

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Vilya

If it was a double blind test and he claimed to have heard a difference he would not know its source, so how would his alleged bias advance his argument?

lol

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Why do people not want the highest quality media?


This I don’t understand. I take the best I can get.

I guess it’s cheap and that’s the draw.

not everyone is the same.

Some people go for three star Michelin restaurants some people go for low quality fast food chain burger and fries.

Some people go for fancy sports cars others go for cheap cars.

Some people stay at 5 star hotels other stay at cheap dumps

....

It is like that for everything and everyone. It depends on what one sees as important. For many watching something at home is about relaxing (or similar) and so not important for me that is not the case and it is about experiencing the film. For me when it comes to eating out I am neither one extreme or the other, when it comes to cars I see them as a means to get somewhere so i don't care about the journey, if I could eliminate it I would. And when it comes to Hotels as long as it is safe who cares I plan to spend as little time as possible in there.