Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

What is the cost of having the highest quality media?

depends on the question. If we are talking owning the media then cheaper then low quality media and i would say dirt cheap (I remember paying 5$ for a few double features which would put each film at under 2.50 but there might have been others that were cheaper).

If we add rental then streaming services like Netflix in the short term can be seen as cheaper. (i.e. most months I spend more on films then I would if all I watched was Netflix but because of the large collection that i have the reality is some months I don't spend a penny)

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

[Show spoiler]I'm not spitting hairs at all... It's not inconsequential, trivial, or unimportant, to point out that there are plenty of poor quality discs, which some people in this thread own, when you are making statements about how much better discs are compared to streaming.

Also, on the contrary, often the differences in quality between a disc version, and a streaming version, are greatly exaggerating in favour of the disc by the pro phyiscal media members that post in this thread, when in fact often that is splitting hairs, because the differences between some discs and streaming versions are so close, that it is could be argued that it is inconsequential, trivial and unimportant.



Owning a region free player is pretty much a must if you do value quality like you claim... If you don't have one yet, or have only recently bought one over the last couple of years, then that says to me that quality isn't as important to you to the extend that you make it out it is. Blu-ray launched in 2006, I joined this site in 2010, and I quickly realised that if I wanted the very best quality, I needed one, so I bought my first region free player the following year. I currently own 4 multi-region Blu-ray players. If quality is the highest thing that you value, then waiting 12-14 years to buy a region free player suggests differently.




So how do you determine what the best version is in terms of PQ when you make a purchase then, if you don't read the forums for this? If you rely on so called pro reviews, then that's been a mistake... Plenty of users discover issues that reviewers didn't when they reviewed a disc. For instance, where does the Blu-ray.com reviewer specifically mention the banding that is present on the U.S. theatrical disc of Midsommar in their review, which is extremely bad in a few scenes near the beginning of the movie?:

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Midso...246766/#Review

There has been other members that have also mentioned it in the U.S. thread for the title.

You have been a member here for a long time, you should be familiar with regular members that often post about this sort thing, that are trustworthy.

Furthermore, I manage to easily see information about the quality of a title amongst everything in threads, without anything being spoiled for me, I'm not sure why this is difficult for you.



I saw this paragraph earlier before you edited it, smart move, because there was contradiction there.



The previous paragraph that you edited, contradicted this... I won't address it for now, however, I will specifically touch on it if I need to.



Keep up the good work...



It doesn't sound like it, by your own admission, you buy titles without doing a great deal of research.



And this just shows your ignorance... Proof of this exists on site and others, such as cap-a-holic, there is plenty of evidence easily assessible which proves that you are wrong, and that you don't know what you are on about. Perhaps you should take some time to educate yourself on the matter, because it really is a short sighted and silly comment to make. I haven't disputed that a higher bitrate can make a positive difference. If you are going to claim that you don't believe what I have said and nothing will convince you, then it's on you to do some comparing, to prove the people wrong who have actually compared certain titles already, that have made statements about one encode with a lower video bitrate being better than another with a higher bitrate, and/or have also provided evidence of this. If you want to dispute it, then perhaps you should start with Midsommar



Which ones of us did you say seems to prefer arguing for the sake of it in the next paragraph below? You sure do love bringing up things like this when we are having conversations, in an attempt to create a point to try to save face, when it's completely irrelevant... The topic isn't about different masters, and any filtering that has been done, it's about the quality of encodes. Many of you consistently make the claim in this thread about it, that discs are superior to streaming in this regard, when they are not always!



I could say that same about your posts. If that's how you feel, I can't control that. They're not meant to be condescending in anyway.

A lot of things that Alchav21 says are incorrect, and he does get called out for it, and the same should apply to you. Alchav21 did make a valid point, what you have said in response this is incorrect in this instance. However, that hasn't stopped the group of you that favour phyical media, from disregarding it, and ganging up on him about it. In instances like this, I am happy to stand side by side with him, to help him defend his position.

TLDR.

I wish I wasn't joking there.

I am going to try and resist building another wall of text (no promises, tho ) as you did not seem to comprehend the last one and there's a sense of futility now in replying to you at all.

You claim that I do not do adequate research when buying discs based on nothing but your assertion that better editions exist than some of the ones that I own. I do not doubt that this is true in some instances, but there are many reasons why that might be the case. I never deliberately chose to buy a lower quality edition. Overall, I am quite happy with how I research my purchases. I have extremely few regrets. I have been buying physical media for decades and I am doing just fine IMO.

You have no way of knowing how much I am willing to spend to acquire a disc, but yet you claim to know exactly that when you assert that I mostly shop sales and bargain bins. This is nothing but an assumption on your part, but it serves to highlight your arrogance- and that was already obvious.

You also claim that my motivations are not much different than that of a typical streaming customer. This is nothing but an attempt at provocation. The evidence of my commitment to this hobby is plain to see and my purchase behavior is typical of extremely few people.

I was importing discs even before I modified one of my players to be region free. Not all imports are region locked anymore than are all domestic releases. I acquired region free capability when I felt there were a sufficient number of Region B discs that I wanted. One of my recent acquisitions was Midsommar.

All I said about bitrates was that lowering them is not advantageous to quality. And it isn't. Lowering bitrates is a cost and storage space saving decision and nothing else. If an encode that happens to have a higher bitrate is worse than one with a lower bitrate, the bitrate is not the reason for it. There are many other factors involved. Lowering bitrates does not improve quality, period.

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

ALL else being equal, higher bit rates produces a more faithful reproduction (higher PSNR) of the original. Period.

You just came off of a 30 day ban; what does that say about you? It says that you have a history of bad behavior as each ban is longer than the one preceding it. To get a 30 day time-out, you had to have been either very offensive or a repeat offender. If it is the latter, it shows that you are also a very slow learner. You haven't been back but a few days and here you are trying to create a confrontation.

You stand with whomever you like; at least Alchav is smart enough to not get banned repeatedly. He even once understood the importance of bitrates, albeit overstated.

Originally Posted by alchav21

It's a known fact that BitRate is the controlling factor for Streaming Video Quality.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Family member was in hospital last week and they have just received a call to say two patients have been confirmed as having CV19. I now have to go for a test. Fantastic start to the weekend! My sister can hardly afford to get this virus with her low immune system and my elderly folks need to get tested.

I hope your test comes back negative and wish good luck to your family members.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Sorry to hear that. Good luck. Hope for the best.

Hope you don’t get the up the nose test my daughter had to get before returning to collage. it doesn’t actually look safe to me. They cram a long Q tip painfully up your nose. It just didn’t look like it should have to be done like that to me and I’m glad I haven’t had to have that yet.

The test is not that big of a deal. On the other hand having it is a different story.

[Admiral]

The swab test is not painful, just uncomfortable.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Family member was in hospital last week and they have just received a call to say two patients have been confirmed as having CV19. I now have to go for a test. Fantastic start to the weekend! My sister can hardly afford to get this virus with her low immune system and my elderly folks need to get tested.

I hope everyone is okay.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by Admiral

The swab test is not painful, just uncomfortable.

I have seen now there is a version where you do it yourself but when my daughter had it done it looked painful and it was shoved. I think I could do it without hurting myself but another person wouldn’t be getting much feedback from the jab.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Thanks mate.

It’s a mess. Can’t get a test because they are flooded with people trying to do the same thing. Need to keep trying for the rest of the morning. Our NHS is swamped.
Sister already Ill, worried sick about her.

Please keep us updated on how you and your family are doing when you have the time. We're all pulling for you.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I hope your test comes back negative and wish good luck to your family members.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

The test is not that big of a deal. On the other hand having it is a different story.

Originally Posted by Admiral

The swab test is not painful, just uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by gotmule

I hope everyone is okay.

Originally Posted by bhampton

I have seen now there is a version where you do it yourself but when my daughter had it done it looked painful and it was shoved. I think I could do it without hurting myself but another person wouldn’t be getting much feedback from the jab.

Originally Posted by Vilya

Please keep us updated on how you and your family are doing when you have the time. We're all pulling for you.

Had the test 1 hour ago. It took two hours due to computer issues. It was utter chaos. Computer system a mess, registration was a mess. Parents tested also. The swab makes you feel sick in back of throat lol.

Results in 48-72 hours.

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by bhampton

I think I could do it without hurting myself but another person wouldn’t be getting much feedback from the jab.

it should not be a jab, it is basically a slightly too big piece of cotton in a tight cavity.

Like admiral said it is just uncomfortable (and I am guessing most of it is because we are not used to it.)

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

it should not be a jab, it is basically a slightly too big piece of cotton in a tight cavity.

Like admiral said it is just uncomfortable (and I am guessing most of it is because we are not used to it.)

Yep, you have to do the swab then snap the bud at a certain marked point to ensure it is short enough for the tube.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Vilya

TLDR.

I wish I wasn't joking there.

I am going to resist building another wall of text as you did not seem to comprehend the last one and there's a sense of futility now in replying to you at all.

Outline exactly what I didn't comprehend? If you meant something different to how it comes across in writing, then you should've put it in context, perhaps by using some emojis.

Honestly, did you really need to respond, couldn't you have just left it where it was... It seems that we have something in common, because both of us seem to get an itch that we have to scratch... Neither of us ever seem to resist responding, even when it gets to a point that it's nothing more than pointless bicking, which makes both us just pathetic as the other.

Originally Posted by Vilya

You claim that I do not do adequate research when a buying a disc based on nothing but your assertion that better editions exist than some of the ones that I own. I do not doubt that this is true in some instances, but there are many reasons why that might be the case. I never deliberately chose to buy a lower quality edition. Overall, I am quite happy with how I research my purchases. I have extremely few regrets. I have been buying physical media for decades and I am doing just fine IMO.

It doesn't matter why you did or did not buy the best versions, you don't have some of them, which is fundamental to the point... There would be HD streaming versions available that would be better quality than some of your 1080p Blu-ray discs. This seems extremely hard for you to want to acknowledge and admit... "Oh no, can't have that, Alchav21 couldn't possibly be watching better quality than me!"

Originally Posted by Vilya

You have no way of knowing how much I am willing to spend to acquire a disc, but yet you claim to know exactly that when you assert that I mostly shop sales and bargain bins. This is an assumption on your part and it makes plain your arrogance.

You like to bring up how much you regularly spend on discs quite a bit, which to be honest, comes across as quite obnoxious... Anyone could get an idea about your expenditure purely from what you have shared. My earlier statement about you being like many other people that make their decision based on price, was merely an observation, which come from examining your collection, and seeing quite a number of cheap U.S. bargain bin titles, where there are superior international counterparts that cost a lot more.

Originally Posted by Vilya

You also claim that my motivations are not much different than that of a typical streaming customer. This is nothing but a provocation. The evidence of my commitment to this hobby is plain to see and my purchase behavior is typical of extremely few people.

Again, based on looking at your collection, I made an observation that you barely own any international versions, and no doubt that partly has to do with domestic releases being more easily assessible to you (the same applies to most collectors, including myself... There is more Australian titles in my collection than there is from anywhere else), I was simply using this to demonstrate the point that's this is not much different to streamers, in the sense that they also make their choices based on convenience.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I was importing discs even before I modified one of my players to be region free. Not all imports are region locked anymore than are all domestic releases. I acquired region free capability when I felt there were a sufficient number of Region B discs that I wanted. One of my recent acquisitions was Midsommar.

The UK discs of Midsommar are garbage... It's just another one that you'll have to upgrade if you value quality.

Originally Posted by Vilya

All I said about bitrates was that lowering them is not advantageous to quality. And it isn't. Lowering bitrates is a cost and storage space saving decision and nothing else. If an encode that happens to have a higher bitrate is worse than one with a lower bitrate, the bitrate is not the reason for it. There are many other factors involved. Lowering bitrates does not improve quality, period.

And all I originally said was - "There is some truth in the statement that a higher bitrate doesn't necessarily mean higher/better quality", and there is. (The key word in that sentence is 'necessarily', it gives it context... When we get heavily into these discussions, you often overlook these key words). I then gave an example of The U.S. Midsommar theatrical cut Blu-ray disc having a higher video bitrate to the Australian director's cut disc, but it has an inferior encode with more compression artifacts. I then followed this up with another comment about there being titles that David M has encoded, that sometimes have lower video rates compared to other versions, but the compression is superior. Why did you need to reply to the orginal comment of mine at all, or the other comments continuing on with that point, if you understood and agreed?

You also attempted to argue that when a disc has a higher bitrate than another, but has more compression issues than the disc with a lower bitrate, that it's a fault, or a mistake... While that can be true for some titles, that's certainly not the case for the majority. Encoding is like an art form, some people/companies in the industry are better at doing it than others.

Originally Posted by Vilya

You just came off of a 30 day ban; what does that say about you? It says that you have a history of bad behavior as each ban is longer than the one preceding it. To get a 30 day time-out, you had to be either very bad or a serial offender. If it is the latter, it shows that you are also a very slow learner. You haven't been back but a few days and here you are trying to create a confrontation.

You stand with whomever you like; at least Alchav is smart enough to not get banned repeatedly.

Well, I guess Alchav is smarter than the both of us, because the majority of the time when I have been suspended from this site, it's been for doing exactly what you and I are currently doing now, pointless bicking back and forth... Most of the time, all parties involved are suspended, therefore, it's probably best that this nonsense ends with this post.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

[Show spoiler]Outline exactly what I didn't comprehend? If you meant something different to how it comes across in writing, then you should've put it in context, perhaps by using some emojis.

Honestly, did you really need to respond, couldn't you have just left it where it was... It seems that we have something in common, because both of us seem to get an itch that we have to scratch... Neither of us ever seem to resist responding, even when it gets to a point that it's nothing more than pointless bicking, which makes both us just pathetic as the other.



It doesn't matter why you did or did not buy the best versions, you don't have some of them, which is fundamental to the point... There would be HD streaming versions available that would be better quality than some of your 1080p Blu-ray discs. This seems extremely hard for you to want to acknowledge and admit... "Oh no, can't have that, Alchav21 couldn't possibly be watching better quality than me!"



You like to bring up how much you regularly spend on discs quite a bit, which to be honest, comes across as quite obnoxious... Anyone could get an idea about your expenditure purely from what you have shared. My earlier statement about you being like many other people that make their decision based on price, was merely an observation, which come from examining your collection, and seeing quite a number of cheap U.S. bargain bin titles, where there are superior international counterparts that cost a lot more.



Again, based on looking at your collection, I made an observation that you barely own any international versions, and no doubt that partly has to do with domestic releases being more easily assessible to you (the same applies to most collectors, including myself... There is more Australian titles in my collection than there is from anywhere else), I was simply using this to demonstrate the point that's this is not much different to streamers, in the sense that they also make their choices based on convenience.



Anymore? They never were all region locked to begin with. The UK discs of Midsommar are garbage... It's just another one that you'll have to upgrade if you value quality.



And all I originally said was - "There is some truth in the statement that a higher bitrate doesn't necessarily mean higher/better quality", and there is. (The key word in that sentence is 'necessarily', it gives it context... When we get heavily into these discussions, you often overlook these key words). I then gave an example of The U.S. Midsommar theatrical cut Blu-ray disc having a higher video bitrate to the Australian director's cut disc, but it has an inferior encode with more compression artifacts. I then followed this up with another comment about there being titles that David M has encoded, that sometimes have lower video rates compared to other versions, but the compression is superior. Why did you need to reply to the orginal comment of mine at all, or the other comments continuing on with that point, if you understood and agreed?

You also attempted to argue that when a disc has a higher bitrate than another, but has more compression issues than the disc with a lower bitrate, that it's a fault, or a mistake... While that can be true for some titles, that's certainly not the case for the majority. Encoding is like an art form, some people/companies in the industry are better at doing it than others.



Well, I guess Alchav is smarter than the both of us, because the majority of the time when I have been suspended from this site, it's been for doing exactly what you and I are currently doing now, pointless bicking back and forth... Most of the time, all parties involved are suspended, therefore, it's probably best that this nonsense ends with this post.

Who died and left you in charge? Having the last word is something that is given to you; it is not something that you get to dictate.

You sound like such an elitist snob. I am confident that not every one of your discs is the best edition in the world, either. You also have no particular expertise that qualifies you to make that determination.

Upgrades are an ongoing process without end. If you wanted to be helpful you would make specific recommendations instead of just telling people that what they have is subpar. You tell people that that their stuff is inferior to yours (elitism), but you never offer any constructive advice. Instead of telling me that the U.K. edition of Midsommar is "garbage", you could have recommended what you think is a better edition. But it was never your purpose to say anything useful from the outset.

You are not here to help; you are here to irritate.

I mentioned my spending on discs because you keep insisting that you know how I spend my money when you know no such thing. What I paid for a disc at the time of purchase is often quite different than what it sells for later. Is that really so hard for you to understand? Unless a title goes OOP, it will eventually go on sale and sometimes it will be deeply discounted. Even limited editions go on sale if they sell slowly.

You also think that you know the criteria that I use when buying a disc. You don't. It is your astounding arrogance that allows you to make yet another assumption. The only thing about my expenditures that is convenient is that I prefer to shop online. Sometimes without wearing any pants.

When it comes to bitrates, the higher the better. Wendell, someone with actual expertise, said as much himself. He is someone whose opinion I value as he speaks from both professional experience and actual knowledge. You have demonstrated having neither and instead speak purely from your unparalleled ego. He also gives specific and helpful recommendations whereas you just criticize and insult.

I do not care what alchav streams or how "Outstanding!" he thinks that it looks. He literally says that about everything. He owns nothing. He has no control over what he bought. He does not care when content is edited, censored, or even removed entirely.

As far as I know alchav has never been banned, but he has also only posted 2406 times. I was banned once for 3 days and I have posted 9002 times. I estimate that you have been banned at least 4 times now as your most recent vacation was for 30 days; you have posted 10,662 times. You have gotten in trouble more often than any of us which clearly indicates that you don't learn things very well. How much credence should such a slow learner as yourself be given? The answer: not much. You are truly "special."

I now grant you the opportunity to have the last word as a token of my benevolence and due to my being to with your

[Lee A Stewart]

Netflix Viewers Upset With 4K Picture Quality

Netflix has introduced a new system for its Premium subscribers which it claims maintains 4K picture quality whilst reducing the bandwidth the service consumes. There’s only one problem: viewers are complaining the picture quality has got markedly worse.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/barryco.../#31598bec745e

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Netflix Viewers Upset With 4K Picture Quality

https://www.forbes.com/sites/barryco.../#31598bec745e

I'm surprised that they even noticed. Someone that we all know certainly hasn't.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Who died and left you in charge? Having the last word is something that is given to you; it is not something that you get to dictate.

I wasn't dictating anything, I was merely suggesting that perhaps we should do the mature thing, and leave it there... Obviously not.

Originally Posted by Vilya

You sound like such an elitist snob.

Finally... That's been the point, that's precisely the impression that I wanted to give, because that's exactly how you guys sound everyday when you carry on about the quality of discs compared to streaming, and put down people like Alchav, and streamers alike, for their choices. You regularly tell Alchav that he is watching garbage, and how it doesn't compare to the quality that you watch... It's given you a sense of what you sound like. You didn't like me pointing out that you have quite a bit of trash quality titles in your collection, and I'm sure those that you do it to, don't appreciate it either.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I am confident that not every one of your discs is the best edition in the world, either.

No I don't, not anymore... I did up until mid 2017, but I had to stop, because my circumstances changed, it was far too costly to keep it up (it's a massive commitment regularly soughting after the best discs from all over the world, I was spending substantially more than the figures that you have thrown around). My view on collecting discs is a bit different these days, partly due to the financial reasons, but also because my obsession with Blu-ray's did contribute to my 15 year relationship with my ex failing... My ex enjoyed this hobby, and was ok with me spending money to grow the collection, but hated that I would consistently upgrade, and buy more than one version of a title.

Originally Posted by Vilya

You also have no particular expertise that qualifies you to make that determination.

Owning and comparing multiple versions of a lot of titles (as I previously mentioned in another post, I own 2-5 copies of hundreds of movies on Blu-ray), does put my expertise at much higher level than yours, and certainly does qualify me to make that determination.

Originally Posted by Vilya

Upgrades are an ever ongoing process as they have ever been since I first began collecting movies. If you wanted to be helpful you would make specific recommendations instead of just telling people that what they have is subpar. You tell people that that their stuff is inferior to yours (elitism), but you never offer any constructive advice.

I have contributed a lot of helpful information to this site regarding specific titles, and so have a lot of other members... Venture out of this thread, explore, and you'll discovered this information for yourself, it's out there.

Originally Posted by Vilya

You not here to help; you are here to irritate.

Not at all.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I mentioned my spending on discs because you keep insisting that you know how I spend my money when you know no such thing. What I paid for a disc at the time of purchase is often quite different than what it sells for later. Is that really so hard for you to understand?Unless a title goes OOP, it will eventually go on sale and sometimes it will be deeply discounted.

You have brought up what you spend on discs many times, long before I made the comment yesterday after looking at your collection.

Originally Posted by Vilya

You also think that you know the criteria that I use when buying a disc. You don't. It is your astounding arrogance that allows you to make yet another assumption. The only thing about my expenditures that is convenient is that I prefer to shop online. Sometimes without wearing any pants.

I honestly don't care how much you spend, or what criteria you use when buying discs... I looked at our collection, and I made a couple of comparisons to streamers habits from what I saw... You almost seem offended to be compared to a person the streams content.

Originally Posted by Vilya

I do not care what alchav streams or how "Outstanding!" he thinks that it looks.He literally says that about everything. He owns nothing. He has no control over what he bought. He does not care when content is edited, censored, or even removed entirely.

And you own a massive pile of second, third, fourth rate discs

Originally Posted by Vilya

When it comes to bitrates, the higher the better. Wendell, someone with actual expertise, said as much himself. He is someone whose opinion I value as he speaks from both professional experience and actual knowledge. You have neither and instead speak purely from your unparalleled ego. He also gives specific and helpful recommendations whereas you just criticize and insult.

Wendal said so, so it must be true. It's apparent that you don't possess the knowledge and expertise to be able to present anything yourself from first hand experience...

Originally Posted by Vilya

As far as I know alchav has never been banned, but he has also only posted 2406 times. I was banned once for 3 days and I have posted 9002 times. I estimate that you have been banned at least 4 times now as your most recent vacation was for 30 days; you have posted 10,662 times. You have gotten in trouble more often than any of us which clearly indicates that you don't learn things very well. You are truly "special."

It's pretty sad that you have to bring banning into our discussion... Worry about your business, and I'll worry about mine.

[gotmule]

Hey Guys. Might I suggest walking away for a bit? This debate seems to be heading towards an inevitable conclusion, and is not helping anyone’s blood pressure or standing within this forum. Just a thought.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by gotmule

Hey Guys. Might I suggest walking away for a bit? This debate seems to be heading towards an inevitable conclusion, and is not helping anyone’s blood pressure or standing within this forum. Just a thought.

Seems prudent.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I'm surprised that they even noticed. Someone that we all know certainly hasn't.

Hey I like the way you guys have been going at it. Even though Cevolution prefers Quality Discs, he also sees the benefits of good Streaming. I dropped back from 4K to HD on Netflix Streaming because of cost. Right now I'm watching Away and Cobra Kai on Netflix, and the Quality is Superb! Thanks Cevolution for the Support!

[Vilya]

Storming here now. Which will I lose first? Power or my internet service?

Oh well, books are always a fail safe.