Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

We don’t expect anything else from you Cevolution. Your intention is obviously to cause trouble so I’m just going to ignore you from now on. Make sure that chip on your shoulder has plenty of vinegar because it sure has enough salt.

No, I am not here to cause trouble at all, what I am after is change. Lee A Stewart is dead right, anything that anyone says in this thread that you and the other 6 or so pro phyiscal media regulars to the thread disagree with, they get ganged up on and attacked over it. I would like to start seeing more people come into this thread and comment, I don't think that's going to happen until you stop with your bullying tactics. You don't like me, and don't want me here, because I call you out on this, and you don't succeed in intimidating me.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

No, I am not here to cause trouble at all, what I am after is change. Lee A Stewart is dead right, anything that anyone says in this thread that you and the other 6 or so pro phyiscal media regulars to the thread disagree with, they get ganged on and attacked over it. I would like it to stop, I would like to start seeing more people come into this thread and comment, I don't think that's going to happen until what you stop with your bully tactics. You don't like me, and don't want here, because you don't succeed in intimidating me.

Have you heard yourself? Stop embarrassing yourself dude.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Have you heard yourself? Stop embarrassing yourself dude.

Hardly, we are on the internet, we don't personally know each other, and I don't really value your opinion all that much, therefore, it's impossible to feel embarrassment.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I’m 45. Just six years older than you. Also, I worry about me and my collection, not some kid two blocks down. You either love film or you don’t. You will find a way if that’s the case. Whether that’s collecting or in the future subscribing to every service out there and paying for premium VOD.

If you were paying any attention you would know a couple of our members retired very early.

Fiinally, people who have collected for many decades have a heck of a lot to bring to the table. You are 39 you say? Trust me, the next ten years will fly by. That’s if you are fortunate enough to still be with us. Life is like that, no guarantees. We are all as vulnerable as each other, we all have one life.

What exactly do and have you, and Vilya, brought to the table? Hopefully one day, you'll actually follow through, and provide some detailed specifics of all of these titles that you make out that you have compared the disc to the streaming versions of... That may turn into a very embarrassing day for you

[slimjean]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

What exactly do and have you, and Vilya, brought to the table? Hopefully one day, you'll actually follow through, and provide some detailed specifics of all of these titles that you make out that you have compared the disc to the streaming versions of... That may turn into a very embarrassing day for you

What is there to compare? Besides the blatant fact that they visually have all kinds of compression artifacts, streaming versions are often up to 1/4 the file size.

What is disturbing is that there are people that understand this, see the difference, and still claim streaming is better.

Seems to be a trend with physical haters. Good riddance. I say let them think that way.

Meanwhile back in reality, besides very few exceptions, your best quality experience will be with what is bought and sitting on a shelf, not what you are enslaved to while having the studio decide what you can or can't see for an ongoing monthley fee.

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

There is nothing wrong with it... Some of you are discussing your age and retirement, and I simply was saying that I would like to hear from younger collectors. Their outlook is much more interesting to me, because they have had online options available to them from a much younger age, and don't have the same connection with physical media as older people. Do they fear change and letting go of it like many older people seem to? I'm also interested in whether they put much thought into when we reach retirement age in 25-50 years... As time goes on, this hobby is going to become more challenging for younger collectors. Older people don't have to worry too much about whether they will easily be able to use their Blu-ray collections in a few decades from now, whereas we do... For instance, second hand players will likely be our only option.

It's a different topic and conversation from the usual in this thread (unless you count the oldies in this thread making fun of younger people for their choices), a new direction would probably do it some good.

I am curious how you came to the conclusion that those older than you on this forum fear change. The majority of us have been hobbyists and collectors from vhs to laserdisc to dvd to Blu-ray to 4K and we have embraced change every time as those changes brought forth improvement and made our hobby more enjoyable. You can add D-VHS and all the advancements in home theater processors along the way to the list of changes some of us embraced along the way. There was no fear whatsoever when I sold a perfectly good 2-3 yr old processor to purchase a new one that brought advancements to my system (which has happened 6 times in the past 19 years) The reason why some of us are not embracing streaming is that it is a step backwards for reasons often discussed and shared.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by gotmule

I am curious how you came to the conclusion that those older than you on this forum fear change. The majority of us have been hobbyists and collectors from vhs to laserdisc to dvd to Blu-ray to 4K and we have embraced change every time as those changes brought forth improvement and made our hobby more enjoyable. You can add D-VHS and all the advancements in home theater processors along the way to the list of changes some of us embraced along the way. There was no fear whatsoever when I sold a perfectly good 2-3 yr old processor to purchase a new one that brought advancements to my system (which has happened 6 times in the past 19 years) The reason why some of us are not embracing streaming is that it is a step backwards for reasons often discussed and shared.

Yep, exactly. If a format is progressive, that’s different. Nothing I have seen with digital suggests this is a progressive format. The so called ‘advantages’ are not having to get up and insert a disc. That’s more a comment on society than progress.

HT to me is the pursuit of cinema quality in the home. Digital does not lend itself well to this pursuit. Some can’t understand that for some reason.

I think some mix up HT with a tv stuck on the wall. They are two very different things.

[Steedeel]

I got my test results back. I’m negative as are my parents. However, my sister and brother in law have the virus. My sister is already poorly from a operation so I’m worried sick. I was hoping for a clean sweep.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

There is nothing wrong with it... Some of you are discussing your age and retirement, and I simply was saying that I would like to hear from younger collectors. Their outlook is much more interesting to me, because they have had online options available to them from a much younger age, and don't have the same connection with physical media as older people. Do they fear change and letting go of it like many older people seem to? I'm also interested in whether they put much thought into when we reach retirement age in 25-50 years... As time goes on, this hobby is going to become more challenging for younger collectors. Older people don't have to worry too much about whether they will easily be able to use their Blu-ray collections in a few decades from now, whereas we do... For instance, second hand players will likely be our only option.

It's a different topic and conversation from the usual in this thread (unless you count the oldies in this thread making fun of younger people for their choices), a new direction would probably do it some good.

I'm 46, so not as old as some on here. I have zero problem with change or "letting go" when that change is for the better. I work in IT so I have to stay up to date on technology. But even apart from that, I welcome change. Not speaking on the political side with this, but conservatism would have us still living in the 1800's. That ideology is that any change is bad and we should strive to keep things as they are or regress to earlier times. I believe the opposite. Good change is essential to survival.

But in my opinion streaming is not good change. It could be if it were implemented in a different fashion. But as it exists now it is anti-consumer. I don't understand anyone embracing that. You would never spend your money on a house and sign a contract that states they can take your house at any time with no notice and there is nothing you can do about it. Most people wouldn't buy ANYTHING under those conditions but for some reason streaming gets a pass.

When iTunes first came out I began buying music digitally rather than on CD. My computer crashed and I lost all my files and this was before Cloud Sync. So all the music I purchased through iTunes was gone. When I contacted Apple they stated that it is the consumer's responsibility to back up their data. They would not allow me to re-download it so all the music I paid for was gone. Of course things are different now, but it made me see the downside of digital.

I don't "cling" to physical media because I resist change. I'm smart enough to see it is the best option to support my passion for cinema. I'm not a "movie buff". Apart from family cinema is my main passion. It has been since I was old enough to remember anything. It doesn't sound like that's the case for you, which is fine. But don't look down your nose and judge people based on your limited understanding of things. Streaming is good enough for someone who enjoys movies, I don't argue that. For me it isn't.

So don't presume that I'm some old man that hates change and wants things like the good old days. That couldn't be further from the truth. But I also don't blindly worship at the altar of the new and embrace everything that comes along because "it's new and convenient". That is lazy reasoning and lazy living. I have the mental ability to embrace what is good and reject what is not or doesn't work for me personally. You might want to try that out sometime.

But as others have stated you seem to be here to provoke reaction by being rude and denigrating the people that frequent this thread. I have never bullied anyone here. I have no problem with people promoting streaming. I use it myself. There is one individual who pops up here spouting inaccuracies and outright lies and refuses to acknowledge when they are wrong. I have no problem calling them out on their troll behavior, just as I have no problem calling out a little man who seems to think he can throw some weight around and insult good people just because he disagrees with them.

The ignorant often don't feel embarrassment because they aren't smart enough to realize when they should. Some people think bluster and provocation make them tough. It just makes them look as pathetic online as they are in real life. I would love the opportunity to meet you or some "young ones" in person. I promise you the encounter would not go as you suggested.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I got my test results back. I’m negative as are my parents. However, my sister and brother in law have the virus. My sister is already poorly from a operation so I’m worried sick. I was hoping for a clean sweep.

Glad you're negative but sorry to hear about your sister. I wish her all the best.

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

As time goes on, this hobby is going to become more challenging for younger collectors. Older people don't have to worry too much about whether they will easily be able to use their Blu-ray collections in a few decades from now, whereas we do... For instance, second hand players will likely be our only option.

But second hand players will never be difficult to find. I can still easily buy a used VCR or LaserDisc player on eBay even though neither of them are officially supported anymore. That's one thing that makes physical media far superior to digital: it doesn't require ongoing support to function. Regardless of any advancements in video or audio quality physical media will always be the best option because it can't be modified or taken away and it will continue to work for a very long time without official support.

When iTunes, Amazon Video, and Vudu are no longer supported everyone's collections will be lost. When Blu-ray and DVD are no longer supported all of our discs will still work perfectly for a very long time.

I'm 32 years old so that should automatically make my post valid in your eyes.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Ender14

Glad you're negative but sorry to hear about your sister. I wish her all the best.

Thanks mate. What a year eh?

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Thanks mate. What a year eh?

No kidding. Not a promising start to a new decade. But hopefully this will be the low point and the next 9 years will be wonderful. Probably not, but one can dream.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Ender14

No kidding. Not a promising start to a new decade. But hopefully this will be the low point and the next 9 years will be wonderful. Probably not, but one can dream.

True. I will be self isolating now so you will all be hearing more from me! (Speaking of low points )

[Lee A Stewart]

When I went out to dinner I always liked to go to buffets. Lots of choices right in front of you. The opportunity to try new foods. Eat as much as you want. And the price was very reasonable.

To me, that's what streaming is. The biggest difference is that every month, new choices of content appear. The buffets I went to always had the same food. That's OK cause there's comfort in knowing when you're on your way to go out to eat, your favorite dishes are going to be right there. And maybe, just maybe this time I will try the Mongolian Barbeque. I keep saying I will, but I never do.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by slimjean

What is there to compare? Besides the blatant fact that they visually have all kinds of compression artifacts, streaming versions are often up to 1/4 the file size.

I have been over this, perhaps you should read some other recent comments of mine in this thread... It's a fact that there are plenty of Blu-ray discs with all kinds of compression artifacts too, and are absolute rubbish. Some of the people that regularly post in this thread that love talking up how great discs are, and their quality compared to streaming and online services, own plenty of turd discs (if they really cared about quality as much they preach in here, their collections would reflects this, and they would have other disc versions that are known to be better than what they currently have). They claim to be knowledge, but it's not hard to see that they really have little idea, and the truth is, they have done **** all comparing... They simply base their claims around a general idea, that because physical media is capable of a higher standard, that this is always that case.

The collections of these Blu-ray enthusiast thread regulars, who make out that they are such hardcore picture and audio quality connoisseurs, that pick on people that prefer streaming for their quality choices, often comment that what they own and watch on Blu-ray have superior encodes to all available versions from online services. None of the handful of physical media pro crowd that regularly post in this thread, so far have put their money where their mouth is... These members try to present themselves as knowledgeable, especially when they attack people over things that they disagree with, but they have trouble answering questions about specifics regarding the quality of a title when they are asked, and can't seem to say anything more than - 'they can see a difference, and how much better what they own on physical media looks in comparison to streaming. Let's not pretend, the reason for this is because they don't know how to assess these things themselves very well, they are merely amateurs, with little experience, that rely on reviews and more knowledgeable members to tell them about the quality of a title on disc. People like Steedeel and Vilya, really have no business jumping on people that prefer streaming, and telling them that they are watching poor quality content. I also think that they are hypocrites because of this... If they weren't so vocal, and didn't often give other people that prefer streaming a hard time about the quality of what they view, then there would be no reason for them to be labelled as such. The day that they can back up what they say, with specifics in great details (something fresh, that's not taken from reading something that someone else has already posted about, that they simply have reworded and.reposting) is the day that they earn that right, and can start to be taken seriously... I don't care whose friends with them or not, they do attack people over lots of things in this thread, and it's about time that they actually put up, or shut up.

Originally Posted by slimjean

What is disturbing is that there are people that understand this, see the difference, and still claim streaming is better.

That's just human nature... Not everyone can afford the same, and people do convince themselves that a cheaper lower quality option is just as good as higher quality product. If I were come to your place, no doubt I could find heaps of junk, where there is something better, but you're happy with what you have. In some of these instances, you may think there is no or hardly any difference in the quality of what you have bought, compared to a more expensive higher quality product, and that the more costly item is not value for money.

Originally Posted by slimjean

Seems to be a trend with physical haters. Good riddance. I say let them think that way.

The majority of people that prefer streaming aren't physical media haters...

Originally Posted by slimjean

Meanwhile back in reality, besides very few exceptions, your best quality experience will be with what is bought and sitting on a shelf, not what you are enslaved to while having the studio decide what you can or can't see for an ongoing monthley fee.

This is mostly over the top nerd thoughts really, as far as I'm concerned... I'm a huge physical media supporter, so if someone like me thinks this, I can only imagine what that masses would say to you and call you if were to say it to them. PM me your address, I'll send you an Australian army Slouch hat with tin foil wrapped around it.for Christmas

Have you got any other hobbies other than home theatre and sitting on your bum watching movies? I don't mean some other geeky thing, such making lego, I mean something that is a bit more physical, and gets you out of the house?

[PenguinInfinity]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

I'll send you an Australian army Slouch hat with tin foil wrapped around it.for Christmas

It's a well known fact that digital titles have been removed or modified because they were deemed to be offensive, this has ramped up considerably recently. There is nothing paranoid about thinking that will continue to happen.

Physical media is the best way to ensure that titles remain available. Discs can't be modified after they've been sold and everyone can freely redistribute them without official support.

[Lee A Stewart]

So how many people who are fleeing the wildfires are taking their disc collections with them?

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

So how many people who are fleeing the wildfires are taking their disc collections with them?

What does that have to do with anything? What good is your digital collection without a TV or electricity? I guess there's always your phone but I would think preserving battery life would be more important.

If I had time to get myself and my loved ones to safety AND save important things (photos, sentimental objects and yes, disc collection) then I would. If not I would take the insurance money and rebuild my collection.

But way to focus on the trivial to make a point when so many lives have been ruined. Good for you!

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Ender14

I'm 46, so not as old as some on here. I have zero problem with change or "letting go" when that change is for the better.

Great post .

There has been speculation for some time that holographic devices would be made available for movie distribution but it has not happened yet (cost?). If they should become available, are reasonably priced, hold much more data than disc and covered by the First Sale Doctrine then I am all in.

I am probably one of the oldest here. Had a four speaker setup by 1972, Dolby Surround by 1983 (designed and built by me), Kloss video projector, LaserDisc and Beta Hi-Fi by late 1984. Quite a few scenarios like this so I find it quite funny when someone says that I am stuck in old ways.

At work we were streaming audio/video between facilities over T3 lines in early/mid 90's. By late 90's we were streaming our main program channel to the internet. We went on the air with our first ATSC transmitter in November 1998.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Great post .

There has been speculation for some time that holographic devices would be made available for movie distribution but it has not happened yet (cost?). If they should become available, are reasonably priced, hold much more data than disc and covered by the First Sale Doctrine then I am all in.

I am probably one of the oldest here. Had a four speaker setup by 1972, Dolby Surround by 1983 (designed and built by me), Kloss video projector, LaserDisc and Beta Hi-Fi by late 1984. Quite a few scenarios like this so I find it quite funny when someone says that I am stuck in old ways.

At work we were streaming audio/video between facilities over T3 lines in early/mid 90's. By late 90's we were streaming our main program channel to the internet. We went on the air with our first ATSC transmitter in November 1998.

How dare you be old? You are taking liberties sir!