Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

What it states and the reality are two different things. The reality for people who saw these early encodes were that the 4K picture was noticeably poorer.

So I went back 13 pages and all I found was this:

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Been watching the series The Punisher on Netflix and the data rates have been 11.35 Mbps for the UHD version. Last night season 2, episode 11 streamed at 19.23 Mbps. That is the first time I have ever saw Netflix exceed 16 Mbps.

Makes one wonder if this is in response to the bad press they have received in regards to low data rates for their content. This is just one example of one show out of thousands so it does not mean much at this time.

[Vilya]

Forbes ran this article on September 4th:

Netflix Viewers Upset With 4K Picture Quality

https://www.forbes.com/sites/barryco.../#3c896d0c745e

The problem is hardly an isolated incident.

The new codec H.266 (VVC) requires that the viewer get new hardware and it is likely a few years away from being widely used. New codecs benefit physical media and streaming both.

"Both VVC and AV1 are able to offer their impressive efficiency gains because they rely on computationally heavy algorithms. In other words, any playback device like a smart TV or a streaming media player that is compatible with these new codecs will have to pack some serious computing horsepower — probably way more than the current generation of devices are capable of.

If you’re Netflix or any other provider of streaming or disc-based video, it probably doesn’t make sense to roll out wide support of a new codec until a significant number of your customers can take advantage of it."

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...lly-explained/

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

So I went back 13 pages and all I found was this:

Overlooked??

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Looks like the 19 Mbps stream of The Punisher from Netflix was a fluke. The last two episodes of season 2 was < 9 Mbps.

With 190 million subs its like this, we reduce the bit rate and 1000 subs complain or cancel, that still leaves us with 189.999 million subs. Big deal, we greatly reduced transport cost, storage cost and we continue to charge the same price. Our investors should love it!!!

I hate to keep pointing out the obvious for folks but streamers are quite happy that untold millions are just fine with < 5 Mbps streams. Netflix index here, has not been updated since February, CV-19 or don't want anyone to see more current data.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Asked at AVS:

Which services offer Dolby Atmos & Vision on which platforms?

Answered:

It’s an ever-changing game depending on the devices, software versions, specific titles, and deals between companies. By the time anyone could document it, it would change.

IMHO, without a standards body it will always be this way with streaming. Every streamer for themselves, been this way since the beginning and not likely to change.

[Steedeel]

I was thinking about the concern I have with variable speed playback being introduced to Netflix and possibly most/all streaming services and it occurred to me that with climate issues and energy consumption, it may end up being a recommendation that we watch films and tv sped up to save energy and contribute to less carbon in the air. Less viewing time in other words.

[bhampton]

Speed up the commercials so that you have no idea why you buy stuff

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Speed up the commercials so that you have no idea why you buy stuff

That will never be allowed.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I was thinking about the concern I have with variable speed playback being introduced to Netflix and possibly most/all streaming services and it occurred to me that with climate issues and energy consumption, it may end up being a recommendation that we watch films and tv sped up to save energy and contribute to less carbon in the air. Less viewing time in other words.

Recommendations are not requirements, thus I do not care. Variable speed playback will never be anything more than an option and one that is mostly used when watching instructional videos.

It has been recommended for decades that people eat better and exercise more, yet in this country the obesity rate is a staggering 42.4%. Kinda shows how well people follow recommendations; they don't- they do what they please.

https://www.tfah.org/report-details/...-obesity-2020/

Watching TV uses very little energy compared to the real energy hogs in your home. It costs about $52 per year to operate my 85" TV out of the roughly $1800 per year that I spend on electricity. If I turned off my TV for the entire year I would reduce my power usage by only 2.89%. If I really want to reduce my energy usage, I need to adjust my thermostat; heating and cooling consume the vast majority of the energy used in the home.

Variable speed playback does not automatically mean that people would use their TVs and the internet less. Those using this awful option would probably spend as much time watching stuff as they ever did; they would just get more content watched in the same amount of time or they might spend any "time savings" playing video games. Either way, they will be using their display devices and their internet service as much as ever.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Recommendations are not requirements, thus I do not care. Variable speed playback will never be anything more than an option and one that is mostly used when watching instructional videos.

It has been recommended for decades that people eat better and exercise more, yet in this country the obesity rate is a staggering 42.4%. Kinda shows how well people follow recommendations; they don't- they do what they please.

https://www.tfah.org/report-details/...-obesity-2020/

Watching TV uses very little energy compared to the real energy hogs in your home. It costs about $52 per year to operate my 85" TV out of the roughly $1800 per year that I spend on electricity. If I turned off my TV for the entire year I would reduce my power usage by only 2.89%. If I really want to reduce my energy usage, I need to adjust my thermostat; heating and cooling consume the vast majority of the energy used in the home.

Variable speed playback does not automatically mean that people would use their TVs and the internet less. Those using this awful option would probably spend as much time watching stuff as they ever did; they would just get more content watched in the same amount of time or they might spend any "time savings" playing video games. Either way, they will be using their display devices and their internet service as much as ever.

I have trouble shaking this one off as you can probably tell.

On a happier note, my sister is doing well and may be able to come home next week if the COVID has cleared.
Her hubby is still in intensive care.

Hope you are well and enjoying your backlog of disc goodness.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Streaming has that edge of potato vision quality to it.

Perhaps new codecs and even more aggressive compression will result in no change at all.

I understand some of your 4K Discs fall into this Potato Vision category. That the Streaming version could be better. If you want the best you look for David M Quality 4K upgraded Discs.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I understand some of your 4K Discs fall into this Potato Vision category. That the Streaming version could be better. If you want the best you look for David M Quality 4K upgraded Discs.

Potato vision and botched encodes are two different things. One is a rarity, the other a constant. Digital bit rates are brittle by nature, way too low. Show them on a projector and disc will take them down to Chinatown.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I have trouble shaking this one off as you can probably tell.

On a happier note, my sister is doing well and may be able to come home next week if the COVID has cleared.
Her hubby is still in intensive care.

Hope you are well and enjoying your backlog of disc goodness.

I am very happy that your sister is steadily improving; that's great news! I certainly hope that her husband gets well and soon. You and your family are having a very tough time, but I am optimistic that you will all get through it.

I am enjoying my collection, but the viewing and listening experience is vastly diminished as I have to use my TVs built-in speakers while I save up to replace my AVR. It is just an inconvenience, but an annoying one.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I understand some of your 4K Discs fall into this Potato Vision category. That the Streaming version could be better. If you want the best you look for David M Quality 4K upgraded Discs.

You have no understanding, just speculation. You do not own a 4K disc player, or any 4K discs, and therefore you are in no position to offer any criticism of the format. All you can do is parrot the opinions of others.

Streaming is routinely riddled with compression artifacts whereas a bad 4K disc encode is a far less common occurrence. The latter gives me real ownership and no level of streaming quality can overcome that fact.

Who the hell is David M and why should anyone care what he thinks? How exactly does one "look for" his "Quality 4K upgraded discs?" If there is a reason why I should care, I am open to learn what it is.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Who the hell is David M and why should anyone care what he thinks? How exactly does one "look for" his "Quality 4K upgraded discs?" If there is a reason why I should care, I am open to learn what it is.

Seriously, you don't know who David M is... FFS, leave home once in a while

He has a lot of respect and credibility on this site and other boards, he is considered to be the best of the best at what he does:

https://www.fidelityinmotion.com/about.php

Edit: Do a bit a of research of your own for a change, and this will lead you to which discs he and his company have worked on.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

Seriously, you don't know who David M is... FFS, leave home once in a while

He has a lot of respect and credibility on this site and other boards, he is considered the best of the best at what he does:

https://www.fidelityinmotion.com/about.php

The reason why I do not know the name of the people who encode discs is precisely because I do leave home.

Despite your customary snark, the link you provided was useful.

His bio here reads:

"David Mackenzie, Fidelity in Motion
BD, UHD, DVD, Digital Cinema professional
ISF + THX Certified Professional, Member SMPTE"

https://forum.blu-ray.com/member.php?u=11531

Still, to alchav's point, how does one determine which discs David Mackenzie has worked on, or has otherwise approved, without wading though all 1542 of his posts on this website yet alone others? Has he provided a list of such titles?

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The reason why I do not know the name of the people who encode discs is precisely because I do leave home.

Despite your customary snark, the link you provided was useful.

Still, to alchav's point, how does one determine which discs David Mackenzie has worked on, or has otherwise approved, without wading though all of his posts on this website yet alone others? Has he provided a list of such titles?

With the amount that you love to read in this thread, you'd think that you'd be doing more of it outside of this thread... You don't seem like you do a lot of it anywhere else on this site. I'm sorry, I don't agree with for spoon feeding people, that information is on this site, and I think you should put in the effort to search a bit, and find it for yourself.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I have trouble shaking this one off as you can probably tell.

On a happier note, my sister is doing well and may be able to come home next week if the COVID has cleared.
Her hubby is still in intensive care.

Hope you are well and enjoying your backlog of disc goodness.

Glad to hear your sister is doing better. I'm sure your brother-in-law will pull through just fine as well.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Cevolution

With the amount that you love to read in this thread, you'd think that you'd be doing more of it outside of this thread... You don't seem like you do a lot of it anywhere else on this site. I'm sorry, I don't agree with for spoon feeding people, that information is on this site, and I think you should put in the effort to search a bit, and find it for yourself.

You did not mind "spoon feeding" information about disc shelves and home theater gear in other conversations.

The link that you provided only names 27 titles that Fidelity In Motion has worked on. Only 5 of those are 4K titles (not counting the Spears & Munsil test disc).

https://www.fidelityinmotion.com/our-work.php

Still, I glanced at David M's post history and some of it looks quite interesting and I am confident that I will enjoy reading what he has to say. He appears to be knowledgeable, helpful, and a gentleman.

[Cevolution]

Originally Posted by Vilya

You did not mind "spoon feeding" information about disc shelves and home theater gear in other conversations.

Whatever that's supposed to mean, I don't give 2 shits really to be honest... Me posting info about discs I own, correspondence I've had with distributors, release dates etc to help out others, plus other things sometimes, such as my shelves and gear when topics come up that relate to them, is not that same, those are my contributions... Why should people assist you in finding info that's not directly theirs? Many members take the time to careful read the info that gets posted on this site by others, and you're equally as capable of doing this ... Unless you have some kind of handicap which you've never mentioned?

Originally Posted by Vilya

Still, I glanced at David M's post history and some of it looks quite interesting and I am confident that I will enjoy reading what he has to say. He appears to be knowledgeable, helpful, and a gentleman.

You didn't even search the link I provided to you, if you had, you would've come across some examples of his work by clicking on the top right of the screen, and scrolling down to "Our Work":

https://www.fidelityinmotion.com/our-work.php

Edit: I just noticed that you edited your previous post after I had hit the quote button (I left my phone to do something else while I was in the middle of writing a response to you, and then come back to it 20-30 min later to finish it off), and actually did end up finding that on your own after all, bravo. Now start searching through those "1542" other posts of David M's for some more examples of his work ... Maybe it does enter your mind, who knows, but it doesn't seem to occur to you, that often these things have already been made easy for you, by members that have created threads dedicated to certain topics like this.

Originally Posted by Vilya

The link that you provided only names 27 titles that Fidelity In Motion has worked on. Only 5 of those are 4K titles (not counting the Spears & Munsil test disc).

And? What's your point?

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Ender14

Glad to hear your sister is doing better. I'm sure your brother-in-law will pull through just fine as well.

Thanks mate, appreciate it.