Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by kfbkfb

Having changed from AT&T dialup to AT&T Fiber in late August
and having watched (at a distance of about 3 ft.) a few movies
via the (free w/Fiber) HBOmax, I haven't seen any video artifacts
(W10 Edge browser, Compaq S1922s monitor).

Google reveals that HBOmax currently doesn't allow user
selectable resolutions.

My question is could an older technology by applied to streaming
playback to reduce possible video data reduction artifacts?

Example of Block NR and Mosquito NR for VideoCDs:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/sup...EM.pdf#page=48

I haven't read about any streaming playback NR systems designed
to minimize the visual effect of too low a video data rate, is there
any such NR system (now or under development)?


Kirk Bayne

video compression artifacts are usually more pronounced at very dark or very bright scenes. Normal methods like noise reduction are irrelevant. AI or Neural Network processing is what is used. Newer 8k TVs are using AI up scaling techniques. A example of neural processing cleaning up 100 year B&W film and colorizing it.

Reduction of Video Compression Artifacts Based on Deep Temporal Networks - IEEExplore

Abstract:
It has been shown that deep convolutional neural networks (CNNs) reduce JPEG compression artifacts better than the previous approaches. However, the latest video compression standards have more complex artifacts than the JPEG, including the flickering which is not well reduced by the CNN-based methods developed for still images. Moreover, recent video compression algorithms include in-loop filters which reduce the blocking artifacts, and thus post-processing barely improves the performance. In this paper, we propose a temporal-CNN architecture to reduce the artifacts in video compression standards as well as in JPEG. Specifically, we exploit a simple CNN structure and introduce a new training strategy that captures the temporal correlation of the consecutive frames in videos. The similar patches are aggregated from the neighboring frames by a simple motion search method, and they are fed to the CNN, which further reduces the artifacts. Experiments show that our approach shows improvements over the conventional CNN-based methods with similar complexities for image and video compression standards, such as MPEG-2, AVC, and HEVC, with average PSNR gain of 1.27, 0.47, and 0.23 dB, respectively.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by kfbkfb

My question is could an older technology by applied to streaming playback to reduce possible video data reduction artifacts?

You may want to watch the two videos in this thread.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by kfbkfb

Google reveals that HBOmax currently doesn't allow user selectable resolutions.

Streaming is not about high quality picture and sound. It is all about quality levels that the masses will accept. All they have to do is match or slightly exceed broadcast and traditional pay TV (cable and satellite). All streamers are quite aware that Netflix is the elephant in the room and their average bit rate is < 5 Mbps (reference here for US). Data cost money to store and transport so less data for them = greater profits.

[Wendell R. Breland]

For anyone interested in media players, a review of the Zidoo Z9X here.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by kfbkfb

Having changed from AT&T dialup to AT&T Fiber in late August
and having watched (at a distance of about 3 ft.) a few movies
via the (free w/Fiber) HBOmax, I haven't seen any video artifacts
(W10 Edge browser, Compaq S1922s monitor).

[Show spoiler]Google reveals that HBOmax currently doesn't allow user
selectable resolutions.

My question is could an older technology by applied to streaming
playback to reduce possible video data reduction artifacts?

Example of Block NR and Mosquito NR for VideoCDs:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/sup...EM.pdf#page=48

I haven't read about any streaming playback NR systems designed
to minimize the visual effect of too low a video data rate, is there
any such NR system (now or under development)?

Kirk Bayne

The monitor that you are using only has a native resolution of 1366 x 768. Your monitor is just 18.5" and it barely supports 720p (1280 x 720).

https://www.cnet.com/products/hp-com...r-18-5-series/

The resolution of a blu-ray is 1920 x 1080 and a 4K disc is 3840 x 2160. Many HD streams are 1080p now (some are still 720p) and 4K streams are 2160p. Your tiny monitor is not even capable of 1080p HD resolution, so your inability to see compression artifacts is not surprising.

[TrackZ]

A new Kaleidescape overview video/interview was posted. Check if out for details if you're interested in the platform.

https://youtu.be/-LuvTHNQq6c

[sapiendut]

Far too expensive for me

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Far too expensive for me

Athletes, celebrities, successful drug kingpins, people born insanely wealthy need to have some way to launder money and I’m glad this is there for them. Stupidly rich people need stereos too.

Plus it’s great for the DIY crowd who wants to build something like this for a savings of 90%.

I love home theater right up to the point of getting value from my purchase decisions. If I needed the comfort and assurance of drastically over paying then Kaliedecape would be my first choice.

I would go with ATV4K over Kaliedescape. You can get a very similar experience. Less quality on the Apple side but neither company is reliable enough. K has gone out of business before and iTunes has locked me out of purchased content.

Actual disc library is better than either of those.

[Ender14]

Did anyone here take advantage of the Criterion flash sale? Picked up these this time. All blind buys but certain I will enjoy them. Trying to buy up as much Noir as I can.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Ender14

Did anyone here take advantage of the Criterion flash sale?

Missed this one, bought 3 on the last sale. Have you tried their streaming service (Criterion Channel)? If so, did you like it?

[tvine2000]

Originally Posted by kfbkfb

Having changed from AT&T dialup to AT&T Fiber in late August
and having watched (at a distance of about 3 ft.) a few movies
via the (free w/Fiber) HBOmax, I haven't seen any video artifacts
(W10 Edge browser, Compaq S1922s monitor).

Google reveals that HBOmax currently doesn't allow user
selectable resolutions.

My question is could an older technology by applied to streaming
playback to reduce possible video data reduction artifacts?

Example of Block NR and Mosquito NR for VideoCDs:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/sup...EM.pdf#page=48

I haven't read about any streaming playback NR systems designed
to minimize the visual effect of too low a video data rate, is there
any such NR system (now or under development)?


Kirk Bayne

The facts are when you stream 4K on lets say Netflix it's at very low bit rate compared to the disc. They have to compress it to be able to stream it. Hulu and all the others are the same way. If you want the best bit rate with no compression physical media is the way to go. You can debate it all day ,that won't change anything.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Missed this one, bought 3 on the last sale. Have you tried their streaming service (Criterion Channel)? If so, did you like it?

No, not yet. I have such a backlog of physical titles to catch up on I don't see a point in paying for another streaming service right now that only I will use. I'm actually thinking of cancelling 1 or 2 other services and just keep Netflix and Peacock (since it's free) until I have more time. Have you tried Criterion Channel?

[bhampton]

All day?

We can and will debate it for eternity.

Even though we made our own minds up long ago.



Edit my local library offers Kanopy free (6 movies per month) and there’s lots of criterion on there. Good way to see them and decide if you like them.

[tvine2000]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

I bought that Friday the 13th collection yesterday and have already knocked out the first 4 films. The 4K restorations are epic. The mono soundtracks are also stellar.

Physical media the only way to go 24 bit rate , no compression.

[Vilya]

Last night I watched something on Netflix for the first time in many months in supposed HD quality. It started badly, looking like watercolors in the rain, but after about 45 seconds it improved. I checked the bitrate at random intervals over my 4 hour long viewing session and it never exceeded 2.56 Mbps. Pathetic. And this is from the only streaming service that has the gall to charge extra for 4K.

My access to Netflix will continue to be from a shared account; they do not deserve a cent with bitrates like these.

[sapiendut]

Yup. They have turned “acceptable” quality into “garbage”.

[Phillip c. Niethe]

Best buy just removed all there physical media racks save for the new release kiosk and a single steelbook rack...

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Ender14

Have you tried Criterion Channel?

Not yet, may give it a trial run in the next few months. Have several disc that have not been viewed.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Phillip c. Niethe

Best buy just removed all there physical media racks save for the new release kiosk and a single steelbook rack...

Good thing I shop online... as I have mostly done for the last 10 years.

I have not been in my local Best Buy store since before the pandemic began; I have no idea what they are doing these days, but I might check just out of curiosity sometime. Nothing has changed at my local Walmart.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by tvine2000

If you want the best bit rate with no compression physical media is the way to go.

A little correction, BD is compressed, most BD titles use H.264 and UHD BD use H.265.

1 hour of 16 bit RAW from a Sony F65 camera can use 1 TB of data for 60 minutes (2 TB for two hours). So the data has to be compressed to get that 2000 GB to fit on a 66 GB disc. By comparison Netflix would only use 10 GB for for that same 2 hours because it is much more compressed.