Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[gotmule]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Happy Halloween!

Good to see you back!

[JohnAV]

Sean Connery, the First and Ultimate James Bond, Dead at 90 - Hollywood Reporter 10/31/2020

Sean Connery, the rugged, sardonically assured Scotsman who won an Academy Award and portrayed James Bond seven times, proving to the world that nobody could do it better, has died. He was 90.

Sir Sean Connery In Memoriam | Remembering Movie Moments - YouTube

[slimjean]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

This whole hobby centers around collecting works of arts centered around specific historical time points so that you can revisit these works of arts whenever you want to. Our hobby is no different than people that collect other objects that allow them to study/experience content from different time periods. There are people that collect hundreds and hundreds of books, although most of the material they might read it once, yet they treasure all they have accumulated. Sound Familiar?

To restate:

It is like having a education. You take in the entire amount to have the knowledge at your fingertips with no chance of it being altered.

You never know when or what knowledge you need to summon, but rest assured it is there. A good collector knows their material inside and out. A person from afar that doesn't understand the personal attachment/expression will also not be able to fathom this point. Those same kind of people have accused others of not using a degree because x job is not in the exact field of study. Stupidity is universal no matter the background, but at least ignorance can be cured with a willing mind.

[MrHT]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Trying to make a joke about accumulating digital files. Shall we point to Kaleidoscope which uses local storage to play films, how about all the people that download, rip and store digital content local to they HT system on NAS. Audiophiles that buy CD or better quality and have it stored for playing on their computers systems interfaced to HT setup.

I know people like to joke about what's digital vs BD media, but if you start getting into expensive setups it's no longer an exclusive to just physical media.

That's the thing. Why don't I print every single Microsoft Word document on my computer so I can have a "physical" copy of everything? Or what if I print every single email on my gmail account? Can you imagine how terrible my home would look if I had papers all over the place? But then again, either way I'd be considered a slob and hoarder if I kept tons of letters or emails, whether it be digital or physical.

I'm not buying digital because it's better; I'm doing it because it's cleaner and saves physical space.

[cheez avenger]

I'm not buying digital because it's better; I'm doing it because it's cleaner and saves physical space.

Exactly why I do it. I also do it because every now and then you do get some special nuggets that will never see the light of day on a physical media, like Event Horizon 4K digital as opposed to a 4K disc. Oh, but we'll be getting a fully loaded BD struck from the same source as the digital version. The digital 4K version is also $4.99. Stuff like that is one of the reasons why I gravitate towards digital. The same with Kindle books and music. I still love 4K discs, BD, DVDs, physical books, and vinyl records. I just want it all, or at the very least, ACCESS to it all. I don't deprive myself of media on any format. I want it and I'll have it.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by MrHT

That's the thing. Why don't I print every single Microsoft Word document on my computer so I can have a "physical" copy of everything? Or what if I print every single email on my gmail account? Can you imagine how terrible my home would look if I had papers all over the place? But then again, either way I'd be considered a slob and hoarder if I kept tons of letters or emails, whether it be digital or physical.

I'm not buying digital because it's better; I'm doing it because it's cleaner and saves physical space.

By digital files I meant digital equivalent of works of art, such as films, audio concerts, selections from albums not your life/work computer documents. Seriously wrong interpretation.

[PenguinInfinity]

The physical part of physical media is its least important attribute. I prefer physical media because it can't be modified or taken away and it can be freely and legally re-distributed long after it is no longer available from official sources.

I'd be just as happy with downloaded files with the same rights but I don't expect that to happen. I'm certainly not going to support current downloads or streaming in the hopes that they eventually get the same rights.

[slimjean]

Originally Posted by PenguinInfinity

The physical part of physical media is its least important attribute. I prefer physical media because it can't be modified or taken away and it can be freely and legally re-distributed long after it is no longer available from official sources.

I'd be just as happy with downloaded files with the same rights but I don't expect that to happen. I'm certainly not going to support current downloads or streaming in the hopes that they eventually get the same rights.

Well there is also the fact that it is pressed on something very durable if done correctly.

Saying something is from the same master (like another poster said) is like saying the pie used the same recipe while given a sliver of pie vs the whole thing.

Of course like you said it can be modified with cherries or apples or taken off your plate entirely.

Oh yeah, and the plate itself is paper and while incredibly convenient when lugged around it is in the end quite disposable.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by slimjean

Saying something is from the same master (like another poster said) is like saying the pie used the same recipe while given a sliver of pie vs the whole thing.

Most of us here do not know the actual origins of the A/V content. We assume the common origin is the DI (digital intermediate). The streamers most likely receive a Apple ProRes file(s) for any given title. From that the streaming segmented files are produced using computers with AI.

Streaming files are automated while disc are hand made so to speak. Posted the following sometime back:

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Does anyone know for certain what video compression software Apple, Amazon, MoviesAnywhere and Vudu uses to compress the content they provide? Netflix used to use eyeIO and still may use their product. Netflix has stated they use AI computers to create their streaming files. I suspect other streaming providers does something similar.

For Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray disc it appears most now use the Scenarist authoring system. Don’t know if Sony’s Blue Print is still in the running. Sirius Pixels probably is used for the video compression. Click here for some info on Sirius Pixels, click here for more info. There are lots of screen shots on their site. Should give you a little better appreciation of authoring a disc. Keep in mind this only occurs after countless hours in the Avid* suite editing and many more in the DaVinci Resolve suite color grading.

*At one time Avid was king of the hill in video and audio (Pro Tools) editing.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by MrHT

What about people who consistently pay $15 per month for a Netflix subscription? So essentially, you're paying $15 per month to hoard Netflix's library of content?

Not sure what point you are trying to make. But you can't horde something you don't own.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

But a subscription is just a means of access, you are not involved in any hoarding.

While obsessive hoarding can be both digital and physical media. The latter is the only one that takes up physical space.

I disagree. I don't byuy digital but in the world of gaming, digital or physical is only a way of distribution and they all need to be installed. I remove games I don't play, but the ones I keep take up physical space on the internal HDD and because it does not hold enough space others are on an external drive that also takes up physical space, and if I were to lkeep all my games I would need more external drives that would take up more space.

Don't get me wrong, Physically it is not as much space as the disks and packaging they came in but it would still take up physical space.

[MrHT]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

Not sure what point you are trying to make. But you can't horde something you don't own.

You said that purchasing digitally is considered hoarding. And to your point, many have said that when you buy movies digitally, you technically don’t own the movie. So I don’t know what point YOU are trying to make.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by MrHT

That's the thing. Why don't I print every single Microsoft Word document on my computer so I can have a "physical" copy of everything? Or what if I print every single email on my gmail account? Can you imagine how terrible my home would look if I had papers all over the place? But then again, either way I'd be considered a slob and hoarder if I kept tons of letters or emails, whether it be digital or physical.

I'm not buying digital because it's better; I'm doing it because it's cleaner and saves physical space.

The issue is the analogy does not work.

e-mails, word documents..... that I don't need I delete and I only keep what is important so I don't horde those either.

But why would I need to print the ones I care for and want to keep? Can someone edit or erase the digital versions more easily than paper versions the way many lost content when cinemanow shut down (just to pick one vs anyone that bough the film on PM)? Is what is written in them going to change if it is on paper vs electronic (the same way that watching Halloween (2018) yesterday on UHD BD was better in A/V then if I would have picked any of the digital versions). And even then the truth is sometimes printing is good and makes sense. I still have the electronic version of my thesis I wrote in University. But because there were a lot of strange math symbols and equations at the time I had to use specialized SW to write it. That SW is no longer available and can't be installed on newer computers, luckily back then I also spent money to buy a bound version of my thesis and the othyer day when my nephew asked to look at it , he was able to do so because i had a paper version of it.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by MrHT

You said that purchasing digitally is considered hoarding. And to your point, many have said that when you buy movies digitally, you technically don’t own the movie. So I don’t know what point YOU are trying to make.

OK. Simple

here is the definition posted earlier

Hoarding disorder is a persistent difficulty discarding or parting with possessions because of a perceived need to save them. A person with hoarding disorder experiences distress at the thought of getting rid of the items. Excessive accumulation of items, regardless of actual value, occurs.

Does any Netflix user possess the Netflix library? No, so a user can't horde Netflix's library. It would be like saying someone is hording the books at the public library or back in the day hoarding the films at Blockbuster.

On the other hand the definition does not say "own" in it. Let me take a different example. My dad had a friend, his daughter decided to study here at McGill when she left she brought all her stuff boxed to our house. When she got to where she was going and found a place she asked my dad to send a few of the boxes, later that year when she was settled in and had the time to take a trip back to Montreal to visit friends she passed buy and asked him to send an other bunch of her stuff. 15 years or so later when my dad moved into my home I chucked the 5 remaining boxes out. In my dads eyes maybe she will call out of the blue after 15 years and want her stuff and so we should keep it in our possession (even if don't own it), but reality is she probably does not remember us at all or even that she had 5 boxes of crap at our place.

Since people can't technically own legitimate digital copies of films and they can be taken away or changed without your permission you can't collect digital copies you can only hoard them (keep them in your possession as if it means anything)

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I disagree. I don't byuy digital but in the world of gaming, digital or physical is only a way of distribution and they all need to be installed. I remove games I don't play, but the ones I keep take up physical space on the internal HDD and because it does not hold enough space others are on an external drive that also takes up physical space, and if I were to lkeep all my games I would need more external drives that would take up more space.

Don't get me wrong, Physically it is not as much space as the disks and packaging they came in but it would still take up physical space.

Since when is a HDD volume storage capacity acquainted to physical space? If you change from a 1 TB HDD to a 14 TB HDD about the same size/form what if anything is related to physical space? Your reaching in this comparison.

A small storage setup does not need to be very large in size. Granted you can go RAID in a enclosure, even a small rack frame but its something that quite manageable not like shelves and shelves of media.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

[Show spoiler]Since when is a HDD volume storage capacity acquainted to physical space? If you change from a 1 TB HDD to a 14 TB HDD about the same size/form what if anything is related to physical space? Your reaching in this comparison.

A small storage setup does not need to be very large in size. Granted you can go RAID in a enclosure, even a small rack frame but its something that quite manageable not like shelves and shelves of media.

Shelves filled with physical media are quite manageable. I've been doing exactly that for decades.

If whatever you collect does not constitute a fire/tripping/falling/hygiene hazard and the paths to all exits in your home are free and clear of any clutter that might impede your movement in an emergency then you do not have a hoarding problem.

[Vilya]

I saw this thread for the first time:

Vudu has been forced to remove UHD and HD playback in some browsers because of DRM.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...1#post18253321

Digital distribution keeps finding more ways to suck.

I fixed the link; it should work now.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Since when is a HDD volume storage capacity aquatinted to physical space?

I have no idea what aquatinted means.

but storage on an HDD has always been referred that way and physically does take up that space on the drive

If you change from a 1 TB HDD to a 14 TB HDD about the same size/form what if anything is related to physical space? Your reaching in this comparison.

please show me a 14TB drive that take up as much space as the smallest 1TB drive. Plus 14TB would not cover my film collection

A small storage setup does not need to be very large in size. Granted you can go RAID in a enclosure, even a small rack frame but its something that quite manageable not like shelves and shelves of media. [/QUOTE]


1) I did say "Don't get me wrong, Physically it is not as much space as the disks and packaging they came in but it would still take up physical space."

2) it depends what someone wants. If someone wants one USB per film (easier to bring with you) it can take a lot of space, if someone uses something like this 400 disk storage that measures 2.6"x11"x4.7" https://canary.contestimg.wish.com/a...5c-2-large.jpg
you don't need shelves and shelves of media, one 26" shelf could hold 4K UHD-BD.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Shelves filled with physical media are quite manageable. I've been doing exactly that for decades.

If whatever you collect does not constitute a fire/tripping/falling/hygiene hazard and the paths to all exits in your home are free and clear of any clutter that might impede your movement in an emergency then you do not have a hoarding problem.

I would say you have issues if you can't walk through the area with the lights out.

Unless its your figurine/statue area dedicated to horror films. Then you don't want to go there with the lights out anyway.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

I have no idea what aquatinted means.

Look at the updated post its acquainted before the rush to respond.