Skipping 4K and waiting for 8K?

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by Brian81

using an hd display but figuring distance from screen in angle i typically sit and applying it to my own visual acuity and calculating it, i determined i could tell the difference between 2K and 4K, but not between 4K and 8K in motion.

go into a paint program, make the background white, get pitch black brush, turn of anti-aliasing, paint lines and arcs all over and look

then do pitch black thin line with no anti-aliasing animation and watch

guarantee you will see aliasing all over the place even with 4k even with the still much less the mess it will look in motion, need at least 8k with reasonable viewing distances to begin to get rid of that, and until you get rid of that without having to do anything

or just look out the window and then at the screen with one eye, 4k begins to get there, but definitely not there at a reasonable viewing distance

look at a 19" print from a high MP camera and you'll see so much more fine detail than from same pic viewed on a 4k screen of any size from any distance (granted the eye does perceive resolution a bit differently from emissive vs. reflective display tech)

anyway it will be quite a while before 8k is mainstream, 4k tv broadcasts are only just barely getting going, but it will eventually arrive

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

anyway it will be quite a while before 8k is mainstream, 4k tv broadcasts are only just barely getting going, but it will eventually arrive

If you are referring to ATSC 3.0 - don't hold your breath. There will be extremely little if any 4K broadcasts OTA. Maybe once a year for the Super Bowl. The preferred UHD format they will use is 1080P HDR.

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

If you are referring to ATSC 3.0 - don't hold your breath. There will be extremely little if any 4K broadcasts OTA. Maybe once a year for the Super Bowl. The preferred UHD format they will use is 1080P HDR.

there have been also a few things on cable, not much yet
eventually it will take over, probably more slowly than HD did (which itself was limited as first, but there were some very interesting things going on in the early days of HD, for instance if you watched the digital HD OTA NBC channel they showed you a totally different broadcast than what they put on SD OTA/SD cable! Not only was the OTA HD NBC channel showing vastly better image quality it had way commercials and way, way less blabbing and showed a lot more action and events, but it did still have the main host intros for the night and all the traditional music each time they went to break stuff and key back stories and interviews, I guess they figured so few were getting the OTA HD at that point and since it wasn't even getting tracked by Nielson I don't think, they were OK with rewarding early adopters with far less commercials and giving a more serious old ABC-like presentation)

one problem is that cable doesn't have much bandwidth for all 4k, heck they are already compressing HD to the brim these days (and that brings up another point, when HD first came out the picture quality on average was much better than today, OTA or on cable, much less hyper compressed) so that may delay things quite a bit, but maybe just putting a limited number of 4k channels they can manage

OTA can, but they do seem to be more and more almost treating OTA like a pest and trying to pretend it doesn't exist (but with people cutting cable more and more they may be wise to act like they are broadcast networks again)

[Lee A Stewart]

A new (to me) chart:

[Lee A Stewart]

[Lee A Stewart]

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

lack of 24p is bad
for both future and past stuff, so all movies need to be 3:2 pull down on that 8k set?

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW

lack of 24p is bad
for both future and past stuff, so all movies need to be 3:2 pull down on that 8k set?

Those are the specs for NHK's Super Hi Vision. I would have to look up the US specs for UHD2 (8K) to see if they are different.



From the LG 8K OLED 88" Z9 Operating Manual. I am not familiar with 8K @ 30 Hz. No idea what content would have that.

[KcMsterpce]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Those are the specs for NHK's Super Hi Vision. I would have to look up the US specs for UHD2 (8K) to see if they are different.



From the LG 8K OLED 88" Z9 Operating Manual. I am not familiar with 8K @ 30 Hz. No idea what content would have that.

I suspect 8k 30Hz is for console games. The standard target fps for gaming consoles is 30fps.

Also, the C9 has HDMI 2.1 support, which is suspected to be included in the newest console systems, allowing for the potential to theoretically play some games at 8k/30... maybe. lol

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

Those are the specs for NHK's Super Hi Vision. I would have to look up the US specs for UHD2 (8K) to see if they are different.



From the LG 8K OLED 88" Z9 Operating Manual. I am not familiar with 8K @ 30 Hz. No idea what content would have that.

those LG specs look just like max specs not complete
the connect at 30Hz gives better color resolution

[Gac-Man]

New movies filmed digitally only go up to 2k. How would they even look beyond 4k?

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Gac-Man

New movies filmed digitally only go up to 2k. How would they even look beyond 4k?

Not true. Today's Digital Cinema cameras record at 3.5K, 4K, 5K, 6K, 6.5K and 8K

[WBMakeVMarsMovieNOW]

Originally Posted by Gac-Man

New movies filmed digitally only go up to 2k. How would they even look beyond 4k?

most new movies are filmed at way above 2k

it is true that many are STILL only getting finished at 2k though, especially ones with lots of CGI, there are some that are getting full 4k finishes though, even including some with lots of CGI like Lucasfilm stuff and BR2049 and a few others, there are a fair number of movies without lots of CGI that are getting full 4k finishes (ironically and maddeningly, the studios started a new habit of often releasing these true 4k non-CGI fests as blu-ray only though! )

the 2k finishes still look fine at 8k, even a tiny bit better at 4k, since now the pixel pitch is truly lost

and none of this has anything to do with what will eventually happen, eventually finishing in 4k will be no big deal at all even for CGI fests and same eventually will be the case for 8k just as once upon a time doing CGI at better than 1280x720 (if even) used to be expensive and time-consuming and now they routinely do beyond that

[Lee A Stewart]

The US specs are much different than NHK's:



UHD-1 = 4K
UHD-2 = 8K



https://cdn.kramerav.com/web/downloa...aging-wp-1.pdf

[Lee A Stewart]

Optimum HDTV viewing distance

HDTV is designed to provide an experience more realistic than the television system it is designed to replace.[1] The "thrilling realism"[2] HDTV attempts to offer arises from increased resolution (detail) and the typically large screen sizes. A larger display increases the visual angle at which content is viewed, both of which contribute to an increased feeling of presence.[3][4] Thus, correct viewing distance is critical to the enjoyment of HDTV as it is intended. While helping to define the HDTV standard, RCA engineer (and later vice-president) Bernard J. Lechner did an early analysis of viewing distance under various conditions, deriving the so-called Lechner distance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimu...ewing_distance

Plenty of science there. Of course I don't expect some to accept it. Pretty much the same thing I was saying just with more detailed information. The fact that it's HDTV and not UHD TV is a moot point.

[Nick1985]

Considering just how few films throughout history have been shot one 70mm film I just don't see it being worth it. What I love about 4K is the ability to own the movies I grew up with an love with picture and sound quality matching the original cinema experience.

Now 8K VR, on the other hand, I can't wait.

[Lee A Stewart]

No 8K upgrade for Blu-ray, admits 8K Association

Steve May | Nov 18, 2019

The chances of an 8K upgrade for UHD Blu-ray are slim to none, according to Chris Chinnock, executive director of the 8K Association. Speaking at a format update organised by Samsung, HCC was told that the Blu-ray Disc Association has decided not to adopt 8K for physical media. 'Discussions could start again,' says Chinnock, but I see this as a low probability.'

https://www.homecinemachoice.com/con...8k-association

After reading that, if you really think there is a chance of seeing an 8K BD format - start buying lottery tickets. Your winning it has just as good a chance.

[slimdude]

8K is nothing but a marketing ploy, and it's all what a person can see with the naked eye. If a person doesn't have 20/20 vision and their eyesight is slightly or severely impaired, they not going to see any difference at all. So If somebody want to let themselves get hoodwinked into buy a 8K TV, let them fall for it. If you have good common sense and wisdom you wouldn't do it. As I've said these 8K TVs were rushed on the market so the early adaptors can run out and buy one to have the latest and the greatest, of every new technology as always. Nobody else is buying 8K TVs but the early adopters, so they're falling right into the manufacture's trap as expected.

[slimjean]

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Originally Posted by slimdude

8K is nothing but a marketing plow, and it's all what a person can see with the naked eye, and if a person doesn't have 20/20 vision and their eyesight is slightly or severely impaired, they not going to see any difference at all.

I agree about the marketing, I don't agree about the eyesight. Your example is not even close to what the eye is capable of seeing.

Originally Posted by Nick1985

Considering just how few films throughout history have been shot one 70mm film I just don't see it being worth it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_70_mm_films

I wouldn't call it a few. I watch watching Gravity and I was pleased to read about how the final sequence was shot in 70 mm because I always thought it looked better for that part.

As much as it pains the pocket book, having the output match the source more closely would be really nice.

Of course some have argued that 12K is more like what a negative produces.

As TV's get cheaper and cheaper, I say why not. There doesn't have to be an "end" to enjoy what you have. What people need to get over is thinking that have to throw away what they have just because a new standard is put into the place. No one is foolish for buying what they can afford and enjoying what they obviously can perceive.

Though with Lee's field of vision example above, I do agree that a bigger tv would be awesome if you don't sacrifice quality. Immersion has more benefit when it comes to putting what your eye is capable of to go use. Your eyes are scanning the screen in so many places and putting together a pleasing image. It is like sampling from a perfectly baked pie vs a burnt one. You are going to get the example of it with just a few bites!

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

https://www.homecinemachoice.com/con...8k-association

After reading that, if you really think there is a chance of seeing an 8K BD format - start buying lottery tickets. Your winning it has just as good a chance.

Though I literally just posted it, you seem to ignore the fact that the "8K association" is led by Samsung who jumped out of the race! They are just a group that doesn't speak for all companies. Talk about a marketing ploy. The "Certified" is just another attempt to separate and sabotage what consumers should have as a free choice.

Do ya find it a tad bit weird that there is no Sony, Pioneer, Phillips, Sharp..etc on that association? BDA stating that they don't support 8K TODAY (and specifically that association) doesn't mean squat for what can happen.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by slimjean

Though I literally just posted it, you seem to ignore the fact that the "8K association" is led by Samsung who jumped out of the race! They are just a group that doesn't speak for all companies. Talk about a marketing ploy. The "Certified" is just another attempt to separate and sabotage what consumers should have as a free choice.

Do ya find it a tad bit weird that there is no Sony, Pioneer, Phillips, Sharp..etc on that association? BDA stating that they don't support 8K TODAY (and specifically that association) doesn't mean squat for what can happen.

What I find weird is your refusal to believe that when the executive director of the 8K Assoc. was told by the BDA that they decided not to adopt 8K as a format - you don't want to believe this to be true. You believe things can change. Hope springs eternal (it is human nature always to find fresh cause for optimism).

Projected share of Ultra HDTV homes using 8K displays in 2023, by region

North America: 3.9%
Asian Pacific: 4.1%
Western Europe: 1.7%

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...age-by-region/

That was done two years ago. It was a five year forecast. Conclusion: Few are or will be buying 8KTVS: will have the slowest and lowest adoption rate of an TV technology platform.