The Official Energy Speakers Thread

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by callas01

my manual says to connect to the bottom 2 with either straight wire, banana plugs, spade lugs, or pin connectors. im at home looking at my manual...

I'll look at mine when I get home cause I have my fronts crossed right now after reading my owners manual.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by rwojtalewicz

Actually the active bi-amping you just described is still passive bi-amping. Whether you use your AVRs internal amps or separate external power amps, you are still doing passive bi-amping because you are using the speaker's internal passive crossovers. And you are correct, the effect is minimal especially with the AVR with perhaps a modicum of performance increase using passive bi-amping with external power amps.

In genuine active bi-amping, you don't use the native passive crossovers in the speakers. You must remove them yourself and hot wire each speaker directly to a separate terminals for banana plugs, spades, bare wire, or whatever hookup method that suits your fancy. Then connect separate power amps to each speaker terminal. Then, between the pre-amp or pre-pro and the external power amp, you must connect an active electronic crossover. You can buy those at pro-audio shops or outlets. That's really the whole point of active bi-amping, using a separate electronic, aka active, crossover.

Thus as you can imagine most folks are not likely to bother with such a major overhaul job and buying not only separate power amps, but an active crossover too for each channel. That can become expensive and then you must ask yourself, is it worth it? Then there's another caveat. Speaker's with internal passive crossover may have special circuitry designs for time delays, phase compensation, and the like. Once you remove those from your nice RC series speakers, you have changed them perhaps for the worse. That is, you may end up getting unpredictable results and rather poor performance instead of a performance gain going the active bi-amping route.
OTOH, if one is lucky or very skilled, s/he may obtain outstanding performance by doing active bi-amping.

Active bi-amping is common in pro-audio applications but seems to be lagging and even impractical for home audio after weighing the cost/benefit ratio. Exotic, ultra high end home audio speakers may perhaps be geared toward pro-audio in that it is designed for active bi-amping.

thanks, I new there was more to it, but I couldn't remember nor did I want to go into Big Daddy/Jomari's extensive and comprehensive explanation to extrapolate what it really was.

[BigAl87]

Gents my apologies I must have dremed about this somewhere as my Owner's manual is exactly the same,

Back to the botom connectors but really it did change all that much I will go by their rcommendation.

Listened again to the Rainmaker with my SACD today and man those things are groing on me, And Rainmaker center is far superior to the Mite T C which is why I intend to fo 4 Rainmakers with Rainmaker center.

[HAMP]

I finally heard some Energy's, and they sounded gooood...

The CF-70 were sounding really nice.

[callas01]

no worries... we all get delusional.... hahahaha


anyways.

well Oliver... the wife has basically said to just spend about $3k and get everything I want so that I am happy and she can stop hearing about this upgrade thing.....

well that means the rainmakers are up there as top choice, followed by the Dyns... so I am gonna need to get over and audition them bad boys.....

so do they have a neutral to warm sound, or a neutral to bright sound? or are they flat neutral?

the only thing that sucks about the Totems is that they don't have grills as standard options... Having kids, I need then and it sucks you have to pay for them..

it would be great to get out there to talk with the dealer this week, but I don't know if I will be able to do that given that there is so much going on here at home....

[callas01]

Originally Posted by HAMP

I finally heard some Energy's, and they sounded gooood...

The CF-70 were sounding really nice.

oh good hamp..... The CF-70s are a nice speaker. Probably more laidback then you are used too, but the mid-range is solid and the highs have great detail, although they are less forward. And the bass on them is pretty good for a linear speaker....

does that about sum up what you heard?

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by callas01

oh good hamp..... The CF-70s are a nice speaker. Probably more laidback then you are used too, but the mid-range is solid and the highs have great detail, although they are less forward. And the bass on them is pretty good for a linear speaker....

does that about sum up what you heard?

Pretty much... I forgot about the CB-10s, they were ok, I wasn't the happest about them, but the CF-70 were great.

I think the martianlogan motion 2's really made me not like the CB10's that much and I think the price being lower for the logans didn't help.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by HAMP

Pretty much... I forgot about the CB-10s, they were ok, I wasn't the happest about them, but the CF-70 were great.

I think the martianlogan motion 2's really made me not like the CB10's that much and I think the price being lower for the logans didn't help.

funny you bring up the motions... I was comparing the motion 12s and the CF-70s, and while the mid-ranges and bass were similar, the highs on the Motions were hotter/brighter and they wanted an extra $500/pr, and I kept thinking... REALLY????

Not that because I am an owner of Energys, but because the ML Preface were really nice speakers for $1500, I did not like what they did with the Motions... The Motion 10s were there also, and they were just NO WAY comparable to the CF-70s, they lacked mid-range, and low-end depth.... the highs were again hotter sounding, but IMO they were not as good as the CF-70s

[HAMP]

I didn't get a chance to do that comparison, the sales guy played some Def tech instead.

He really didn't know much of what he was doing. He really thought the magnolia was the only way to get high end stuff. Well he did kinda hear about B&W's but didn't have a clue about getting some.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by HAMP

I didn't get a chance to do that comparison, the sales guy played some Def tech instead.

He really didn't know much of what he was doing. He really thought the magnolia was the only way to get high end stuff. Well he did kinda hear about B&W's but didn't have a clue about getting some.

whats funny about this is that my local BB Mag guys tried to do the same thing and one of them was pretty familiar with speakers, not as much as me, but when we went back and forth with def techs, Energys and ML Motions, he kept talking about the soundstage spacing on the energys were so much better and he could follow the trumpet or Sax or drums or stand up bass a lot better with the Energys then with any of the others. funny is that this is before I told him that I was an Energy owner. He kept trying to force me to listen to Def Techs and Viennas.....So I played a little dumb and was like oh, what are these..... and then he asked what type of speakers I had and I told him, he looked so shocked, and from there I gave him the education of a lifetime on Energys...... He even tried to tell me they were Energys Reference line.... and I was like, NO! This is just Energys ENTRY level series.

So anyways, when I went back, he told me these were the ones he was selling the most now because everyone that comes in with about $1000 he directs right to these and he said all but one person has bought them. Hamp, these were to replace some Klipsch speakers that weren't moving very well, so BB told Klipsch, you need to get us something else, so they turned to Energy, and aparently these have been doing quite well for the stores.

how did you think they compared to the def techs?

[Jwilly019]

Originally Posted by callas01

Not that because I am an owner of Energys, but because the ML Preface were really nice speakers for $1500, I did not like what they did with the Motions... The Motion 10s were there also, and they were just NO WAY comparable to the CF-70s, they lacked mid-range, and low-end depth.... the highs were again hotter sounding, but IMO they were not as good as the CF-70s

I've mentioned this before, but it really is too bad the ML decided to replace the Preface line. I didn't get a chance to do a whole lot of comparison with the Motion series before the Prefaces were completely cleared out, but from what I did, they aren't a "true" replacement.

I haven't heard anything other than the Motion 12, but maybe I should go and listen a little. Just so I know what's out there.

Justin

[Jwilly019]

Originally Posted by HAMP

I didn't get a chance to do that comparison, the sales guy played some Def tech instead.

He really didn't know much of what he was doing. He really thought the magnolia was the only way to get high end stuff. Well he did kinda hear about B&W's but didn't have a clue about getting some.

Magnolia stores will soon be getting B&W. However, it will only be the CM and 600 series. Link to article and to AVS thread on the topic.

Justin

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by callas01

how did you think they compared to the def techs?

SQ alone, I would go with the Def Tech's
Price ratio, I may lean toward the energies.

[BigAl87]

Originally Posted by callas01

no worries... we all get delusional.... hahahaha


anyways.

well Oliver... the wife has basically said to just spend about $3k and get everything I want so that I am happy and she can stop hearing about this upgrade thing.....

well that means the rainmakers are up there as top choice, followed by the Dyns... so I am gonna need to get over and audition them bad boys.....

so do they have a neutral to warm sound, or a neutral to bright sound? or are they flat neutral?

the only thing that sucks about the Totems is that they don't have grills as standard options... Having kids, I need then and it sucks you have to pay for them..

it would be great to get out there to talk with the dealer this week, but I don't know if I will be able to do that given that there is so much going on here at home....

I would have to say flat neautral when I heard them on the Integrated Amp FMJ A38 from Arcam 105WPC.

Slightly brighter than the Sttaf but not overly bright, sound stage is phenomenal etremely wide and they image like champs which is Totems "Marque de Commerce" or "Trade Mark" as they say in english.

I think you will like them and I would suggest you to do a side by side comapraison with the Sttaf to really get the idea on how good those bookshelves sound.

Please ask to audition them in a proper audition room, imagine how great the Sttaf would have been in the right room.

Anyhow I liked them even if I like warm linear speakers I think those more dynamic neutral sounding yet well balanced speakers are so great at what they are doing for smoother kind of music that they came to grow and evolve on me just like my tastes for music.

The Salesman at the store I go to owns a pair since 2005 and he loves them.

Man Clapton's SACD sounded completely amazing I mean on my C-500 it's amazing but sounded even more natural than my Energy and also more detailed.

BTW only the Bass dirver is exposed to damage since the tweeter has this metal grill on top sort of like our C-series.

[callas01]

I think neutral, or dead neutral gets confused with bright, The Dyns are extremely neutral also, they have a slightly "bright" sound... I think because we are used to warm and laidback, it sounds bright.... although it really isn't, it just lacks warmth.

speaking of extremely wide sound stage..... watching The Mummy right now and the guy is pretending to play golf in the tomb, and it sounded like it bounced off my far right wall...

I want to go hear them so so so bad.... esp since I want to know what I want to do. Wife would be OK if I went and got the Focus 140s only so that I would never upgrade again, but the speakers are $3300 list, plus another $1500 on a receiver, then $200 on stands.... that is $5000.

That is way outta what I want to spend. AND what she wants me to spend. Even at 25% off that is $3800. Lets say best case senario.... $2k from taxes, $1300 vacation payout, $500-600 on current equipment being sold, that is $3800 roughly. However I need to get a new TV stand and speaker stands. So say that is $500 there, that leaves me about $2950 before tax to get everything else I need.... ie. Speakers and a Receiver. So I need to get some serious negotiating happening. I need about 20% off.... to come in at budget.... Even willing to buy b-stocks if it lets me get them for less.

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by callas01

I think neutral, or dead neutral gets confused with bright, The Dyns are extremely neutral also, they have a slightly "bright" sound... I think because we are used to warm and laidback, it sounds bright.... although it really isn't, it just lacks warmth.

speaking of extremely wide sound stage..... watching The Mummy right now and the guy is pretending to play golf in the tomb, and it sounded like it bounced off my far right wall...

I want to go hear them so so so bad.... esp since I want to know what I want to do. Wife would be OK if I went and got the Focus 140s only so that I would never upgrade again, but the speakers are $3300 list, plus another $1500 on a receiver, then $200 on stands.... that is $5000.

That is way outta what I want to spend. AND what she wants me to spend. Even at 25% off that is $3800. Lets say best case senario.... $2k from taxes, $1300 vacation payout, $500-600 on current equipment being sold, that is $3800 roughly. However I need to get a new TV stand and speaker stands. So say that is $500 there, that leaves me about $2950 before tax to get everything else I need.... ie. Speakers and a Receiver. So I need to get some serious negotiating happening. I need about 20% off.... to come in at budget.... Even willing to buy b-stocks if it lets me get them for less.

You sound like you have to buy it all at once or no deal.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by HAMP

SQ alone, I would go with the Def Tech's
Price ratio, I may lean toward the energies.

I think you like the brighter sound..... in my time with Big Daddys BP2000s and Best Buys BP7002, I think the newer speakers are more gimmicky with the bi-pole design then actually having a higher quality detail and depth and clarity. Of course they have a nice wide sound stage and full sound with the built-in subwoofers, but IMO, they definetly aren't what the older series were, and I who happen to be more into the accurate and colourless mid-range woud prefer the Energys over the 7006/7004 anyday.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by HAMP

You sound like you have to buy it all at once or no deal.

well, its either do it that way or I can get the receiver this year and the speakers will be 3-4 years out.....

[HAMP]

Originally Posted by callas01

well, its either do it that way or I can get the receiver this year and the speakers will be 3-4 years out.....

This sound so backwards.... Since your current AVR is current, get the speakers now and then in 3-4 years or less get the better AVR at that time. Your speakers will be here for no less then 10-15 years, but over that time, you will be switching receivers.

[callas01]

Originally Posted by HAMP

This sound so backwards.... Since your current AVR is current, get the speakers now and then in 3-4 years or less get the better AVR at that time. Your speakers will be here for no less then 10-15 years, but over that time, you will be switching receivers.

well... if I had pre-outs so I could connect an AMP I would do that and use the Sony as a pre-pro, however I don't have the pre-outs.....

So the problem arises, How do I properly power 4 ohm speakers on a SONY receiver???

Also,..... if I do have to keep my speakers for 3-4 more years, I want to help them out by giving them great power and a musical receiver.....