Dark Force Entertainment Discussion Thread

[AKNewbie]

$199 for Sopkiw's autograph? Big sigh.
I get that he doesn't do autographs at conventions... his loss to market himself and make a buck.

Demon, maybe you will listen (as Bill doesn't). While you guys are doing the interviews with the actors/directors, get them to sign a few hundred slips LIKE SEVERIN DOES. They sell the slips for $10-$15 (some are still available today at their site). Severin typicallically combines them as a disk/autograph offer.

Demon, you guys are missing out providing something cool that (some) collectors want and making some profit to boot.

[frakking toaster]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I just find it odd that people think its horrendous to sell a movie for $50, but if you put the same disc in a fancy cardboard box with some liner notes, then all of a sudden paying $50 becomes okay - if not cool.

I do understand there is a value to case art (to some people, not all), but at the end of the day you're still paying $50 for a movie. I think the fancy cardboard box just helps some people justify the cost better, even if it obviously is nowhere near that expensive to make a cardboard box.

I think is horrendous to claim a blu is out of print and then double the price of it just because people are asking you to make it available again. If you're going to bring up other labels selling LEs for 50 that's bullshit and you know it cause 50 is the MSRP and they can all be had for 25-30 by release date.

[DaveyJoe]

Ruined logic. ™

[splintersan]

Originally Posted by Ruined

I just find it odd that people think its horrendous to sell a movie for $50, but if you put the same disc in a fancy cardboard box with some liner notes, then all of a sudden paying $50 becomes okay - if not cool.

I do understand there is a value to case art (to some people, not all), but at the end of the day you're still paying $50 for a movie. I think the fancy cardboard box just helps some people justify the cost better, even if it obviously is nowhere near that expensive to make a cardboard box.

No one thought it was cool or OK for Suspiria being $55, in fact most people were pissed off, the difference is it's f*cking Suspiria. Sorry Necromancy and Butcher Baker are not on the same level. And Synapse actually released a $25 version that is still available to buy right now. Other than that what other fancy boxes are you talking about Ruined? If it's Arrow (oh I bet it's Arrow) then none of their shit sells for $50, at most I have paid $32 for their LE hard slip box editions and not because of the fancy box but because they come with additional cuts/versions of the films (Re-Animator, Candyman, Deep Red). But continue, we all love to hear your insight into DF/CR.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by splintersan

No one thought it was cool or OK for Suspiria being $55, in fact most people were pissed off, the difference is it's f*cking Suspiria. Sorry Necromancy and Butcher Baker are not on the same level. And Synapse actually released a $25 version that is still available to buy right now. Other than that what other fancy boxes are you talking about Ruined? If it's Arrow (oh I bet it's Arrow) then none of their shit sells for $50, at most I have paid $32 for their LE hard slip box editions and not because of the fancy box but because they come with additional cuts/versions of the films (Re-Animator, Candyman, Deep Red). But continue, we all love to hear your insight into DF/CR.

Wow this is so commonplace I find it amusing that you need examples:

Fancy cardboard box + CD = $70 on sale (regularly $80)
https://www.toufaan.com/products/pos...umbered-copies

Not quite as fancy cardboard box, but still fancier than the norm = $40
https://www.toufaan.com/products/pos...igipak-edition

Crimson Peak, non-fancy box edition $9.99:
https://www.amazon.com/Crimson-Peak-...dp/B016JB0JDG/

Crimson Peak, fancy box edition $35, with same A/V quality
https://www.amazon.com/Crimson-Peak-...6377816&sr=8-2

Harry Potter 1-8 UHD Steelbooks - $210 @ Best Buy
Harry Potter 1-8 non-fancy case edition or individuals - $125 elsewhere

Also note, neither of the code red "$50 titles" were $50 on release. I paid $21.95 for Necromancy, and ~$25 for Devils Wedding Night IIRC. People slept on the opportunity to buy lower and now the price is higher. It happens.

Whether the price is higher because they are simply charging more for the movie, or whether they get you to pay an extra $25+ for a cardboard box/steelbook that probably cost $1 to make, I'm not sure I see the difference. If you like the fancy packaging that's fine, I like it sometimes too. But I wouldn't bag on one label simply because they charge more for a film, especially when the film was available for a lower price in the past - and then turn around and praise another label who is charging double the price+ for packaging.

[chetripley80]

You're being completely disingenuous. Which seems to be kind of the norm for you. There's a world of difference between releasing a limited edition set with all of the bells and whistles, and a label that actually inflates the price and scalps their own product - with no frills.

[delicreep]

Originally Posted by splintersan

No one thought it was cool or OK for Suspiria being $55, in fact most people were pissed off, the difference is it's f*cking Suspiria. Sorry Necromancy and Butcher Baker are not on the same level. And Synapse actually released a $25 version that is still available to buy right now. Other than that what other fancy boxes are you talking about Ruined? If it's Arrow (oh I bet it's Arrow) then none of their shit sells for $50, at most I have paid $32 for their LE hard slip box editions and not because of the fancy box but because they come with additional cuts/versions of the films (Re-Animator, Candyman, Deep Red). But continue, we all love to hear your insight into DF/CR.

Synapse also spent 4 years restoring both the print and the audio for their Suspiria release. The steelbook was worth every penny, and no one was forced to spend their money on it as a standard release soon followed.

[Damonstein]

Bill literally complains about scalpers and then scalps his own products. I don't know how someone can defend him so vehemently. I want to live in the alternate universe where arrow is the label ruined arbitrarily decided to defend instead of code red/dark force.

[indravayu]

Originally Posted by frakking toaster

I had to shut off the live stream. Felt like I was watching a case of elder abuse. Bill sounds like he's dying while this dude is making him dance like a monkey.

Ha...weird thing is that they are about the same age.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Wow this is so commonplace I find it amusing that you need examples:

Fancy cardboard box + CD = $70 on sale (regularly $80)
https://www.toufaan.com/products/pos...umbered-copies

Not quite as fancy cardboard box, but still fancier than the norm = $40
https://www.toufaan.com/products/pos...igipak-edition

Crimson Peak, non-fancy box edition $9.99:
https://www.amazon.com/Crimson-Peak-...dp/B016JB0JDG/

Crimson Peak, fancy box edition $35, with same A/V quality
https://www.amazon.com/Crimson-Peak-...6377816&sr=8-2

Harry Potter 1-8 UHD Steelbooks - $210 @ Best Buy
Harry Potter 1-8 non-fancy case edition or individuals - $125 elsewhere

Also note, neither of the code red "$50 titles" were $50 on release. I paid $21.95 for Necromancy, and ~$25 for Devils Wedding Night IIRC. People slept on the opportunity to buy lower and now the price is higher. It happens.

Whether the price is higher because they are simply charging more for the movie, or whether they get you to pay an extra $25+ for a cardboard box/steelbook that probably cost $1 to make, I'm not sure I see the difference. If you like the fancy packaging that's fine, I like it sometimes too. But I wouldn't bag on one label simply because they charge more for a film, especially when the film was available for a lower price in the past - and then turn around and praise another label who is charging double the price+ for packaging.

Except those are special editions where as Devil's Wedding Night and Necromancy are the non-fancy box editions which have been marked up to gouge his customers.

As for Necromancy, it was available for, what, a week before Bill pulled it?

[delicreep]

Originally Posted by Damonstein

I don't know how someone can defend him so vehemently.

A bit of false equivalency is how.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by chetripley80

You're being completely disingenuous. Which seems to be kind of the norm for you. There's a world of difference between releasing a limited edition set with all of the bells and whistles, and a label that actually inflates the price and scalps their own product - with no frills.

How exactly can the label with the rights "scalp" the product? They bought the right to resell the title. If they want to charge $1, they can charge $1. If they want to charge $1000, they can do that, too. So a label "scalping" their own product is in actuality impossible; they are setting the official price and they can set it for whatever they want.

"A limited edition set with bells and whistles" is just a way to make you feel excited about paying a higher price for packaging materials that cost a fraction of the price difference.

My point is, labels have different ways to extract money from you. Code Red plays games with prices. Other companies charge large amounts for cardboard boxes and steelbooks that cost $1 to make. You just happen to like the latter way better, but both are simply ways to maximize profits.

Protip: buy Code Red titles when they come out at normal price, so one isn't stuck paying higher prices down the road.

[indravayu]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Other companies charge large amounts for cardboard boxes and steelbooks that cost $1 to make. You just happen to like the latter way better, but both are simply ways to maximize profits.

Your point is dumb. They don't cost only $1 to make - an artist has to design them and he/she paid hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars to do so.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by frakking toaster

The problem is that these titles are not out of print. Bill still has boxes of them and when people complain that they want to buy it he throws up for sale at inflated prices. Scalping your own product has to be the scummiest move a label can do.

Scalping is when a reseller buys a product and resells the product for higher than the official price.

A label selling an item that they have the rights to sell for a higher price than it initially was sold for is not scalping, since the official source is the one doing the selling. This act is simply a raising of the official price for the item.

I don't think its logically possible for a label to "scalp" their own product, but they can change the official price.

[GasmaskAvenger]

I'll never understand Ruined's hateboner for Arrow, as they (alongside Vinegar Syndrome) are the best in business.

Just as weird as Jay Mammoth's cultish devotion to Shout! Factory. Yes, there is the occasional (but often negligent) framing error with Arrow and their weird presentation of Django Prepare a Coffin comes to mind, but more often than not, they bring their A game.

Even VS started off a little odd with not too hot compression in Don't Go in the Woods, but they've become a real force to be reckoned with.

[Damonstein]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Scalping is when a reseller buys a product and resells the product for higher than the official price.

A label selling an item that they have the rights to sell for a higher price than it initially was sold for is not scalping, since the official source is the one doing the selling. This act is simply a raising of the official price for the item.

I don't think its logically possible for a label to "scalp" their own product, but they can change the official price.

You're just arguing semantics, call it whatever you want but what they are doing feels scummy and no other label does it.

[GasmaskAvenger]

The way I see it...stuff by Arrow and Mondo Vision can get away with higher price tags because they put in an immaculate amount of effort into their releases, both in terms of packaging and disc presentation.

Shout! just comes off as sleazy because they're using the most basic of presentation and have discs that, more often than not, are mediocre top to bottom.

Can't comment much on Code Red, since I own just two blu-rays, but the discs I own are alright. More pleasing than Shout! for sure.

...on a side note, I hope the new Dark Force store sticks around long enough for me to buy Chaos.

[eric_angelus]

Originally Posted by AKNewbie

$199 for Sopkiw's autograph? Big sigh.
I get that he doesn't do autographs at conventions... his loss to market himself and make a buck.

Demon, maybe you will listen (as Bill doesn't). While you guys are doing the interviews with the actors/directors, get them to sign a few hundred slips LIKE SEVERIN DOES. They sell the slips for $10-$15 (some are still available today at their site). Severin typicallically combines them as a disk/autograph offer.

Demon, you guys are missing out providing something cool that (some) collectors want and making some profit to boot.

Sopkiw DOES do autograph shows, or at least he did. I met him at Chiller Theater about 10 years ago and his sig on my After the Fall of New York One Sheet as wll as a photo with him was $20.

[miribeau]

Originally Posted by Damonstein

You're just arguing semantics, call it whatever you want but what they are doing feels scummy and no other label does it.

No one seems to have bothered to think about where the money is going. First, DF was selling these, with a profit sharing situation, so CR is getting maybe 35 and then DF gets 10 and then the last 5 is for shipping, on that 50 price. The bundle? They each take home, how much, 2.50 more, because they ship together? And people are angry about this? Why?

35 to Bill for a film you want, during a time when he doesn't have a functioning store and isn't in a condition, in terms of his health, to travel back to Washington and do what he normally does, sell for that 30 or 35 price many seem to have wanted to see, is fair. 10 to DD for his time and effort is fair. 5 of it to cover the shipping is fair. When Bill is feeling better, with a functioning store or Amazon Marketplace storefront, he can sell it for 35 or 40 and people who really want it will buy it. BBNM isn't my cup of tea but many really like it and would pay the same fee, as far as what Bill gets, and do it gladly.

I think many of you just forgot that the prices which have you upset are from a sale via a secondary vendor, who has to add in their own profit and time, when listing an item, on top of it being hard to find.

Remember, this is the same vendor who openly lists BRAND NEW titles for $20 per title in his bundles listings. DF's 20 for Swinging Barmaids, 20 for Steel Arena, 20 for MM II, and who knows how many more they'll add in the future, are including shipping and time to get them out to us. DD set those prices, based on titles being new, available in abundance, and costing less to ship, since one ships with the other in his bundles.

Anybody want to complain about that? I can't get a new Shout release for under 27, for months. I got SB for 19.50. MM II for 19.50. Steel Arena for 20 and picked up a copy of SB for a friend for 20. Plus, the 5 pack for 60, which includes 10 films, including a nice transfer of House on the Edge of the Park, no longer available from Bill, and I paid 12 for each blu. I'm happy with the prices and want to go on record and say I want DF to keep it up with the excellent prices.

[frakking toaster]

Ugh.