Seven Samurai 4K UHD (1954) (The Criterion Collection)

[IvyMike]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

Holy crap! I thought the difference would be more slight, but yeah, I just A/B’d my Criterion with the BFI that arrived today and the Criterion wallops the BFI! David M. is a master compressionist but Criterion put some real effort into this and the digital clean-up yields a far more pleasing and consistent viewing experience. FiM is top of the line but they can’t work miracles with a comparatively battered film print. So much for being able to say discs encoded by FiM universally win the battle of disc comparisons.

Are you able to tell how different/similar the audio tracks are on each of those, and/or if you or anyone else has compared the Criterion to the previous JP Toho 4K?

[KubrickKurasawa]

Originally Posted by Filmmaker

Holy crap! I thought the difference would be more slight, but yeah, I just A/B’d my Criterion with the BFI that arrived today and the Criterion wallops the BFI! David M. is a master compressionist but Criterion put some real effort into this and the digital clean-up yields a far more pleasing and consistent viewing experience. FiM is top of the line but they can’t work miracles with a comparatively battered film print. So much for being able to say discs encoded by FiM universally win the battle of disc comparisons.

Their HDR did not impress me on It Follows or The Seventh Seal. I'm not surprised you guys finally see things my way

[Tuc0]

Need to pick up the Criterion asap to see how different the clean up work is. I remember being a bit surprised seeing damage on one of the BFI 4K trailers as the early news of C was that it is basically damage free. Won't probably bother me too much though, very used to SS having damage but who knows if that or the subtitles give a slight edge to Criterion. For once.

[kristoffer]

Ahh, really considering cancelling my BFI preorder now!

[kristoffer]

Ok I just cancelled my BFI order. Sounds like the CC has less scratches and still all the grain. I will wait this one out...

Ok. Really split! The review on this site mentions light DNR...

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Seven...363279/#Review

[SpookyDollhouse]

Originally Posted by Tuc0

but who knows if that or the subtitles give a slight edge to Criterion. For once.

I think they do as I posted before and was ridiculed This place is hilarious

[Hedrox]

I just love the knee-jerk reactions in this forum, we don't even have caps yet and people are already throwing the BFI release under the bus.

I can totally see the whole thing shifting the other way if David M. chimed in and explained why their encode doesn't have the same level of cleanup as the Criterion as a way to preserve more detail or some shit.

[Tuc0]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

I just love the knee-jerk reactions in this forum, we don't even have caps yet and people are already throwing the BFI release under the bus.

I can totally see the whole thing shifting the other way if David M. chimed in and explained why their encode doesn't have the same level of cleanup as the Criterion as a way to preserve more detail or some shit.

This is all purely speculation from my part. As I said; I will get both and judge accordingly. It is mostly gonna be preferences any way when both are solid. I, by no means meant to throw BFI under the bus. After all that is what I pre-ordered and will get long before the C. Just have to wait and see.

[Kyle15]

The giddiness at the prospect of an international release being worser than Criterion (over interesting aspects) is very fascinating.

[Nocheduro]

BFI could have hired FIM to do more cleanup when they hired them to do the HDR grade, guess they didn’t want to spend the extra money. Then again Toho could have done that when they were doing the restoration.

[monisriz]

Saw this link on the other thread for comparisons between the three UHD (Toho, Criterion and BFI):

https://slow.pics/c/hjjt7Rig

[ko8ebryant24]

Originally Posted by monisriz

Saw this link on the other thread for comparisons between the three UHD (Toho, Criterion and BFI):

https://slow.pics/c/hjjt7Rig

Originally Posted by ko8ebryant24

Not sure the caps I posted earlier should be referenced, as the tone-mapped ones look off.

I have a higher opinion of FiM—I don’t think they’d let this happen.

Update

[fkid]

Hmm, quite interesting, Criterion does indeed have a cleaner image, but BFI's HDR grade will certainly please some viewers more, with apparent depth and contrast between shadows and specular highlights. Heads up, this HDR comparison is more indicative of the true difference between SDR and HDR encodes by placing both in HDR colourspace, but should be viewed on an HDR display in HDR mode. I personally feel SDR tonemapping algorithms have a lot of variance and can be more misleading, but I added a few for those who want to see those shots too.

SEVEN SAMURAI - HDR COMPARISON - CRITERION UHD BLU-RAY vs. BFI UHD BLU-RAY (40)

SEVEN SAMURAI - SDR COMPARISON - CRITERION UHD BLU-RAY vs. BFI UHD BLU-RAY (8)

P.S. Quick audio comparison, although the DTS-HD MA Mono track is oddly 16-bits, the dynamic range is nearly identical (20.8 vs. 20.9 LU) and similar filtering as the Criterion PCM Mono track, so don't expect any wonders or meaningful difference. I'll try and share an audio comparison of all the difference sources later.

[ko8ebryant24]

Originally Posted by fkid

Hmm, quite interesting, Criterion does indeed have a cleaner image, but BFI's HDR grade will certainly please some viewers more, with apparent depth and contrast between shadows and specular highlights. Heads up, this HDR comparison is more indicative of the true difference between SDR and HDR encodes by placing both in HDR colourspace, but should be viewed on an HDR display in HDR mode. I personally feel SDR tonemapping algorithms have a lot of variance and can be more misleading, but I added a few for those who want to see those shots too.

SEVEN SAMURAI - HDR COMPARISON - CRITERION UHD BLU-RAY vs. BFI UHD BLU-RAY (40)

SEVEN SAMURAI - SDR COMPARISON - CRITERION UHD BLU-RAY vs. BFI UHD BLU-RAY (8)

P.S. I'm comparing audio next, but I don't anticipate it to be much different from the Criterion filtered mono track.

Man, even with the cleaner image, the Criterion looks very flat due to their SDR disc's 100-nit limit, whereas the BFI delivers a much more naturally filmic image with FiM's HDR grade.

[fkid]

Indeed, it does, but both releases are fantastic, so I don't think fans can go wrong with either disc, especially given the subtitles situation. At least it's nice to see that we don't have to talk about compression/encoding issues for once with an important film restoration.

[Kyle15]

Originally Posted by ko8ebryant24

Man, even with the cleaner image, the Criterion looks very flat due to their SDR disc's 100-nit limit, whereas the BFI delivers a much more naturally filmic image with FiM's HDR grade.

Even in the SDR comparison Criterion's looks flatter. Thinking the cleanup has something to do that that as well!

[ko8ebryant24]

Originally Posted by Kyle15

Even in the SDR comparison Criterion's looks flatter. Thinking the cleanup has something to do that that as well!

True, Criterion darkened the shadows compared to the Toho but the highlights have a more clipped/flat look to them.

[PNguyen]

Some spots in the BFI look a bit more grain managed than Criterion? Look at comparison 15/40 all the way to the right of that guy's face.

[barrett75]

Originally Posted by PNguyen

Some spots in the BFI look a bit more grain managed than Criterion? Look at comparison 15/40 all the way to the right of that guy's face.

scrutinizing the comparison there's something wrong with one of the two releases. sdr look aside, either criterion has some added "mysterious" grain all over the place or BFI is denoised in some ways.

if the source is not the OG neg as stated i find it difficult that this kind of very fine grain could be real (crit cap):

https://slow.pics/c/HJ6v65uT

i could be very wrong tho.

[PNguyen]

24/40 What happened to the Criterion