Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

You guys might come close to paying Full Price, but most think Studios charge too much. Most go by the price of the material, which is less than a dollar. There is a lot more that goes into the pricing of Movies on Disc or Digital too. I'm there with you guys too, I shop for the best price. UV was doing pretty good, but it has gone up in price too. Buying Combo's sounded good too, but like I said Disc sales have gone down. So making your money back by selling the Disc and Redeeming the Digital Copy is not paying off either. If you know anything about Marketing, an item is priced and at a Break Even Point is determined when X amount of Units are sold, then anything after are profits. If that X amount is not sold then the price comes down to at least make up the Cost. Believe me $5 or $10 will not cut it! Steedeel your 15 Pounds or $18 just covers basic cost, and if you and Penguin pay close to Full Price most will not. Making Discs is Doomed!

Most people thinking that movies are too expensive drives people to digital subscriptions, not digital purchases. So if you think that attitude is going to drive the entire marketplace then all purchases are doomed.

Many new releases sell hundreds of thousands of discs for full price on release week and shortly after. Just because you don't personally know the people who are buying them doesn't mean those people don't exist. Just click on any random week, you'll see plenty of titles are selling in very large numbers:

http://www.the-numbers.com/home-market/chart-index

I'm concerned about the future of all the types of movies and especially TV shows that don't sell well. But to think that physical media in general is doomed is absurd.

[Talal86]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

So £5 digital codes are the future are they?

I'd welcome that future. honestly with all the DRM restrictions, they're hardly worth more than that

but in reality $15 for blu rays/$20 uhd, $10 digital hd (day 1 prices) would be very reasonable

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Most people thinking that movies are too expensive drives people to digital subscriptions, not digital purchases. So if you think that attitude is going to drive the entire marketplace then all purchases are doomed.

purchases are not doomed per say, physical media is not going anywhere, but most people have embraced subscriptions and digital rentals, it'd hard to argue that they're not the future

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Talal86

purchases are not doomed per say, physical media is not going anywhere, but most people have embraced subscriptions and digital rentals, it'd hard to argue that they're not the future

What does "digital is the future" even mean? If both physical media and digital continue to exist in the future (which your statement agrees with) then how can you say "digital is the future"?

[Talal86]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

What does "digital is the future" even mean? If both physical media and digital continue to exist in the future (which your statement agrees with) then how can you say "digital is the future"?

I meant for most people, not us enthusiasts

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Talal86

I meant for most people, not us enthusiasts

Does that matter? The studios make a lot of money off of enthusiasts because we are the big spenders. Ignoring that market would lose them billions.

[shinobipopcorn]

I don't mind buying a digital copy, it's when digital copies cost as much as the physical release that irks me.

$10 DC, not so bad. $20, annoying.

[Talal86]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Does that matter? The studios make a lot of money off of enthusiasts because we are the big spenders. Ignoring that market would lose them billions.

big studios, yes, but we might see more limited runs and 'digital only' releases for smaller movies

you already have to get netflix to watch most of their originals, also shows like louis ck's show and portlania (I'm sure there are more examples) stopped getting physical releases and you can only buy them digitally

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Talal86

big studios, yes, but we might see more limited runs and 'digital only' releases for smaller movies

you already have to get netflix to watch most of their originals, also shows like louis ck's show and portlania (I'm sure there are more examples) stopped getting physical releases and you can only buy them digitally

I'm well aware. Those are exactly the types of titles I'm concerned about. If they're digital only now many of them won't be available at all in the future. Streaming is just a new form of broadcast TV: it's convenient but short-lived entertainment.

[Jett Rink]

Originally Posted by Talal86

big studios, yes, but we might see more limited runs and 'digital only' releases for smaller movies

you already have to get netflix to watch most of their originals, also shows like louis ck's show and portlania (I'm sure there are more examples) stopped getting physical releases and you can only buy them digitally

A local library here has all seasons of Portlandia available on DVD for checkout. I'm sure they will get S.7 on DVD when it comes out also.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by Talal86

big studios, yes, but we might see more limited runs and 'digital only' releases for smaller movies

you already have to get netflix to watch most of their originals, also shows like louis ck's show and portlania (I'm sure there are more examples) stopped getting physical releases and you can only buy them digitally

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I'm well aware. Those are exactly the types of titles I'm concerned about. If they're digital only now many of them won't be available at all in the future. Streaming is just a new form of broadcast TV: it's convenient but short-lived entertainment.

Penguin you keep saying that unless they are on Disc Movies will be lost. That is far from the truth, any Movie or Video made is stored, and if the demand is there will be available.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Penguin you keep saying that unless they are on Disc Movies will be lost. That is far from the truth, any Movie or Video made is stored, and if the demand is there will be available.

Penguin's concern is that if the interest goes away, so does the digital version. It sure would be a shame for movies to be withheld from us just because they're unpopular.

[TM2-Megatron]

I'll keep buying movies as long as they keep releasing pressed discs. I'll never pay for a digital copy... at least not more than $1 or $2. I don't even redeem the ones that come included with my movies, so there's really no appeal there for me.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Penguin you keep saying that unless they are on Disc Movies will be lost. That is far from the truth, any Movie or Video made is stored, and if the demand is there will be available.

Originally Posted by master gandhi

Penguin's concern is that if the interest goes away, so does the digital version. It sure would be a shame for movies to be withheld from us just because they're unpopular.

I hear what you say Master, but in reality if there is no interest the information is put on the Back Burner. Like I have always said, everything is Digital now and stored on Servers for later retrieval. If there is no demand for this information, then it goes into Archive. Nothing is lost intentionally, and is usually available on demand. Disc is just a Storage Device, and at the end of its usefulness. I think Storage Servers will replace Disc, and if you want a Digital item it will be available On Demand.

[PCFan]

Originally Posted by TM2-Megatron

I'll keep buying movies as long as they keep releasing pressed discs. I'll never pay for a digital copy... at least not more than $1 or $2. I don't even redeem the ones that come included with my movies, so there's really no appeal there for me.

If it were not for Vudu in the United States I most likely would not care for digital codes either as most codes that come with blu-rays are UV and Vudu is the service I use to watch my UV digital movie collection as I don't find in my opinion the other UV providers as good as Vudu. Vudu is not available in Canada as I heard so I can understand why you don't even redeem the UV codes that come with your blu-rays.

[master gandhi]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I hear what you say Master, but in reality if there is no interest the information is put on the Back Burner. Like I have always said, everything is Digital now and stored on Servers for later retrieval. If there is no demand for this information, then it goes into Archive. Nothing is lost intentionally, and is usually available on demand. Disc is just a Storage Device, and at the end of its usefulness. I think Storage Servers will replace Disc, and if you want a Digital item it will be available On Demand.

I certainly hope that you're right. Sometimes the rights change for movies, so I wonder what will typically happen when a small studio goes under. Would iTunes/VUDU really continue to stream those movies to people after the rights holders no longer exist? Can iTunes/VUDU stream those movies anymore even if they wanted to? I guess they wouldn't be selling it anymore, but just storing it. I'm definitely curious about it. I'm not super worried, but these things do need to be understood.

[Talal86]

Originally Posted by Jett Rink

A local library here has all seasons of Portlandia available on DVD for checkout. I'm sure they will get S.7 on DVD when it comes out also.

thanks, didn't know they got a dvd release.. so they only dropped the blu ray

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I hear what you say Master, but in reality if there is no interest the information is put on the Back Burner. Like I have always said, everything is Digital now and stored on Servers for later retrieval. If there is no demand for this information, then it goes into Archive. Nothing is lost intentionally, and is usually available on demand. Disc is just a Storage Device, and at the end of its usefulness. I think Storage Servers will replace Disc, and if you want a Digital item it will be available On Demand.

How might one go about buying Human Target Season 2? I can't imagine that there is a demand for the first season but absolutely no one wants the second season. It was available digitally while it aired but was removed shortly after. Now no one can buy it.

Low demand won't cause all the discs that have already been made to be lost or unavailable. But it will cause digital titles to become unavailable. I'm sure that the studios still have a copy in their archives, but if it isn't available to the public that's useless to 99.999% of the population.

Originally Posted by master gandhi

I certainly hope that you're right. Sometimes the rights change for movies, so I wonder what will typically happen when a small studio goes under. Would iTunes/VUDU really continue to stream those movies to people after the rights holders no longer exist? Can iTunes/VUDU stream those movies anymore even if they wanted to? I guess they wouldn't be selling it anymore, but just storing it. I'm definitely curious about it. I'm not super worried, but these things do need to be understood.

That's absolutely one of my biggest concerns with digital. If demand isn't high companies aren't going to bother trying to sort out the rights of many disputed titles. They would end up spending more money dealing with that then they would make from sales.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

I hear what you say Master, but in reality if there is no interest the information is put on the Back Burner. Like I have always said, everything is Digital now and stored on Servers for later retrieval. If there is no demand for this information, then it goes into Archive. Nothing is lost intentionally, and is usually available on demand. Disc is just a Storage Device, and at the end of its usefulness. I think Storage Servers will replace Disc, and if you want a Digital item it will be available On Demand.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

How might one go about buying Human Target Season 2? I can't imagine that there is a demand for the first season but absolutely no one wants the second season. It was available digitally while it aired but was removed shortly after. Now no one can buy it.

Low demand won't cause all the discs that have already been made to be lost or unavailable. But it will cause digital titles to become unavailable. I'm sure that the studios still have a copy in their archives, but if it isn't available to the public that's useless to 99.999% of the population.

There's a lot more to this Digital vs Disk argument, but it affects both. Movies, TV Shows are made for an audience to make a profit. The Studios make the Movie or TV Show, and has a Distributor to put it out to the public in the Format agreed Blu-ray, DVD, Digital HD, etc. Now you guys, or should I say Penguin, calls it Demand or being Popular. When in fact it all comes down to Dollars and Cents. If a Movie or TV Show is not going or making money, how will it pay for it's self. Like I said before, it's all Digital now and the Movie or TV Show will remained Archived until it proves it can pay for it's Distribution. So Disc or Digital, if you bought it you have it in that Format.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

There's a lot more to this Digital vs Disk argument, but it affects both. Movies, TV Shows are made for an audience to make a profit. The Studios make the Movie or TV Show, and has a Distributor to put it out to the public in the Format agreed Blu-ray, DVD, Digital HD, etc. Now you guys, or should I say Penguin, calls it Demand or being Popular. When in fact it all comes down to Dollars and Cents. If a Movie or TV Show is not going or making money, how will it pay for it's self. Like I said before, it's all Digital now and the Movie or TV Show will remained Archived until it proves it can pay for it's Distribution. So Disc or Digital, if you bought it you have it in that Format.

Each movie on disc doesn't need to continue to be profitable to continue to be available. When a movie is no longer profitable it will go out of print but all the copies that have already been made will still be in circulation.

With digital everything has to be continually profitable to be available. It doesn't matter if a movie sells a million copies in it's first year, if it has very low demand 10 years later then it will become unavailable. The million copies that were already sold can never be redistributed.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

There's a lot more to this Digital vs Disk argument, but it affects both. Movies, TV Shows are made for an audience to make a profit. The Studios make the Movie or TV Show, and has a Distributor to put it out to the public in the Format agreed Blu-ray, DVD, Digital HD, etc. Now you guys, or should I say Penguin, calls it Demand or being Popular. When in fact it all comes down to Dollars and Cents. If a Movie or TV Show is not going or making money, how will it pay for it's self. Like I said before, it's all Digital now and the Movie or TV Show will remained Archived until it proves it can pay for it's Distribution. So Disc or Digital, if you bought it you have it in that Format.

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Each movie on disc doesn't need to continue to be profitable to continue to be available. When a movie is no longer profitable it will go out of print but all the copies that have already been made will still be in circulation.

With digital everything has to be continually profitable to be available. It doesn't matter if a movie sells a million copies in it's first year, if it has very low demand 10 years later then it will become unavailable. The million copies that were already sold can never be redistributed.

If a Movie is made to Print, Disc or Digital it will be Distributed for the amount of Prints negotiated. Purchasing ownership of Disc or Digital will assure you access even when it becomes unavailable. Unavailable Prints are only for the Purchased Format in either Disc or Digital. Granted Discs in circulation can still be re-purchased, while Digital is only available to the Purchasing Owner.