Heat 4K UHD (1995)

[mikesncc1701]

I like most of this disc. I'll admit preferably there could have been some color or brightness adjustments but that's not my decision. I watched probably 60% of it because of my work schedule but it's damn well worth an upgrade, especially since there are no more orangy skin tones and lots of good grain in the sky. The stability of color of terrific as well. Don't regret the purchase at all. Audio is still bloody terrific too.

The best protagonist/antagonist acceptance ever. Nothing beats it especially with the Goldenthal/Moby music

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by teddyballgame

These subdued grades always garner criticism because the HDR sticker alone leads people to expect a brighter more colorful image.

No, the problem is that to many people Heat looks too dim, too dark even for SDR standards, so let's leave HDR out of the discussion for a moment, OK?

Believe me, even with "SDR in a HDR container" nobody would have a problem with it if it looked like the bottom screenshot:

[Jay Mammoth]

Looked great on my setup.

[Ryan1973]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

No, the problem is that to many people Heat looks too dim, too dark even for SDR standards, so let's leave HDR out of the discussion for a moment, OK?

Believe me, even with "SDR in a HDR container" nobody would have a problem with it if it looked like the bottom screenshot:

What is the secret to get it to look like the bottom screenshot?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by mikesncc1701

I can understand why some people don't like it but it's far from anything that Lucas has done with Star Wars.

The whining about it seems very Star Wars-ish.

[LanceL]

Originally Posted by Nosferatu31

Cheap bastards couldn't afford a flip tray? Oh wait i forgot we have to save the environment.

I don't think they realize the more stacked discs they create the more scratched discs, the worst the environment is bound to get; lots of discs in the trash won't help. They need people who actually think... and for themselves.

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by teddyballgame

I think Geoff already identified the crux of the issue here, that Mann was going for a theatrical look albeit with his latest color tastes. These subdued grades always garner criticism because the HDR sticker alone leads people to expect a brighter more colorful image. Whenever filmmakers try to bring that traditional cinema look to home video eg. Tarantino, Nolan with his raised blacks there's some inevitable disappointment that gets expressed. HDR is just another bag of tools for the creator to work with though and it's up to them to decide what's right.

If for some reason you don't have the option of watching in a dark room or the display can't faithfully reproduce the image I sympathize. If you're seeing things as proper but still subjectively dislike Mann's vision then that's tough. Homecookin the image to your taste is an option, but keep in mind that when adjusting various settings to "fix" one aspect of the image you usually just end up breaking a different part. I prefer to leave my settings in their most accurate position and talk about transfers for the way they really are.

Fair points. I would go further and say that pretty much all HDR content must be watched in a dark room or a light controlled environment. With light playing a major role with HDR, watching in a dark environment on a capable display makes it look more impactful. Once again, I am not looking for pop all the time like most of folks in the Z9(J/K) threads but I prefer tasteful application of HDR. Of course the filmmakers plays a major role but I don't like when there is too much tinkering involved.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by Ryan1973

What is the secret to get it to look like the bottom screenshot?

Insert the Blu-ray.

[teddyballgame]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

No, the problem is that to many people Heat looks too dim, too dark even for SDR standards, so let's leave HDR out of the discussion for a moment, OK?

Believe me, even with "SDR in a HDR container" nobody would have a problem with it if it looked like the bottom screenshot:

[Show spoiler]

Think I get what you're saying, you believe that if it was just a bit brighter it would have made a big difference for a lot of people. I can see that point of view and wouldn't even protest if Mann had opted for something closer to the second screenshot that you've supplied. Still, I can't report having any issues with how it actually turned out either; using custom mode w/gradation preferred (sony preset) in a dark room the shadow details are present and it pretty much looks like typical SDR brightness to me (I like 120-140 nits)

The funny thing is because it does happen to carry that HDR PQ flag there's more ways for the presentation to go really wrong if the TV doesn't carefully consider a few things. I bet if we just got plain old SDR most people wouldn't have any issue because they'd just slide the brightness wherever they liked and called it peachy

[lgans316]

Originally Posted by teddyballgame

The funny thing is because it does happen to carry that HDR PQ flag there's more ways for the presentation to go really wrong if the TV doesn't carefully consider a few things. I bet if we just got plain old SDR most people wouldn't have any issue because they'd just slide the brightness wherever they liked and called it peachy

Disney seldom adds MaxCLL / FALL on their discs.

[HDMan72]

I'm happy with the transfer. It looks like a nice 35mm print. Not dark on my end.

[dlb99]

Originally Posted by lgans316

Fair points. I would go further and say that pretty much all HDR content must be watched in a dark room or a light controlled environment. With light playing a major role with HDR, watching in a dark environment on a capable display makes it look more impactful. Once again, I am not looking for pop all the time like most of folks in the Z9(J/K) threads but I prefer tasteful application of HDR. Of course the filmmakers plays a major role but I don't like when there is too much tinkering involved.

The Matrix 4K is a veritable light canon (especially the skies).

In a total dark room it would be absolutely blinding (on certain scenes on certain displays).

HDR is all over the place, some of it is amazing, others so-so.

[Ryan1973]

Originally Posted by CreasyBear

Insert the Blu-ray.

Which blu-ray though? The 2009 or 2017 one?

[BatmanvJoker]

Originally Posted by HDMan72

I'm happy with the transfer. It looks like a nice 35mm print. Not dark on my end.

It’s amazing how different the reactions are to this disc. To me it is pointing to people might have the wrong tv settings, their tv can’t handle contrast well with its current set up so people can’t make out everything on screen well, they are watching with light in the room, or they aren’t allowing their eyes adjust to a movie theatre experience. I don’t know how else I can explain people swearing off how dark it is and others saying it looks fine.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by ryan1973

which blu-ray though? The 2009 or 2017 one?

2017.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by BatmanvJoker

It’s amazing how different the reactions are to this disc. To me it is pointing to people might have the wrong tv settings, their tv can’t handle contrast well with its current set up so people can’t make out everything on screen well, they are watching with light in the room, or they aren’t allowing their eyes adjust to a movie theatre experience. I don’t know how else I can explain people swearing off how dark it is and others saying it looks fine.

Matt and I have the same TV and I'd reckon my settings are even brighter than his and he thinks it looks fine while I think it's unwatchable. I mean I guess its preference or whatever. Thankfully the Blu-ray is there.

[BadBone]

I finally received my disc today. Those that said it's too dark, unfortunately they were right. It looks like I had set brightness and contrast both to zero. I have an LG CX. I don't know if I should sell the disc or keep it in case my future tv can handle it better, but right now it's unwatchable.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by BatmanvJoker

It’s amazing how different the reactions are to this disc. To me it is pointing to people might have the wrong tv settings, there tv can’t handle contrast well with its current set up so people can’t make out everything on screen well, they are watching with light in the room, or they aren’t allowing their eyes adjust to a movie theatre experience. I don’t know how else I can explain people swearing off how dark it is and others saying it looks fine.

It IS darker, of that there's no doubt. Most people who dig it have fully acknowledged this. The difference is in the perception of that darkness, from a perspective of taste and/or how viewing conditions affect that darkness. I'm setting myself up for a fall here but it's interesting how many people who've insisted that it's too dark, that it's broken, that it's trash etc have never stated whether they're viewing in a darkened room. Perhaps it goes without saying, or perhaps they're always watching with the curtains open and the lights on. If so, then this UHD will be destroyed by such viewing conditions.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It IS darker, of that there's no doubt. Most people who dig it have fully acknowledged this. The difference is in the perception of that darkness, from a perspective of taste and/or how viewing conditions affect that darkness. I'm setting myself up for a fall here but it's interesting how many people who've insisted that it's too dark, that it's broken, that it's trash etc have never stated whether they're viewing in a darkened room. Perhaps it goes without saying, or perhaps they're always watching with the curtains open and the lights on. If so, then this UHD will be destroyed by such viewing conditions.

I'm watching it in a dark light controlled room. It's dark af.

[lgans316]

If it dark for sure but not unwatchably dark. At the same time, you always feel throughout the presentation that that some tasteful HDR grading and some added brightness would have made a huge difference. Somehow the director didn't want it. Remember we all praised the first edition of Batman v Superman and then few years later we had another one with how the director wanted which was accepted by most folks as it made a better visual impact.