Die Hard 4K UHD (1988)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Jlouisbarrett

THANK you for this, I’ve been trying to wrap my head around the whole thing for some time now. I’ve popped up in various threads asking about it over the past few months but most responses I got just confused me further, so I didn’t press any further because it’s not terribly relevant to the thread at hand most of the time.

Is there a way to just set, say, a Denon AVR to automatically detect when a 2.0 track contains LCRS information, and therefore just set itself to DPL or DTS Neo 6? Seems like there should be, so one doesn’t have to pull up IMDb or DVDCompare every time one pops in a movie.

In a word: no. Some Dolby Digital 2.0 tracks are flagged as surround so that it trips the relevant decoder in the AVR, but as most studios and label encode their 2.0 as DTS or PCM these days then they don't carry such flags.

But me, I've got a simple rule of thumb: if it was made after Star Wars and carries an original "2.0 stereo" track then 99 times out of 100 it'll be a matrixed surround mix no matter what it's labelled as on the box.

[GRSN]

Saw this last night, absolutely amazing picture quality.

Really enjoyed the scene with the chair of explosives through the elevator shaft,
had to rewind that 2x.

One thing i did notice in the beginning until McClane arrives at Nakatomi Plaza,
was this weird sped-up scenes, almost thought i had the Motion Plus-setting on.

[notops]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

In a word: no. Some Dolby Digital 2.0 tracks are flagged as surround so that it trips the relevant decoder in the AVR, but as most studios and label encode their 2.0 as DTS or PCM these days then they don't carry such flags.

But me, I've got a simple rule of thumb: if it was made after Star Wars and carries an original "2.0 stereo" track then 99 times out of 100 it'll be a matrixed surround mix no matter what it's labelled as on the box.

If only everyone here (the "reviewers" in particular) knew this.

[Sage00]

Originally Posted by GRSN

One thing i did notice in the beginning until McClane arrives at Nakatomi Plaza,
was this weird sped-up scenes, almost thought i had the Motion Plus-setting on.

Which scenes were sped up? Is this an UHD issue, because I’ve never noticed it on the Bluray?

[notops]

Originally Posted by Sage00

Which scenes were sped up? Is this an UHD issue, because I’ve never noticed it on the Bluray?

Die Hard is my most watched UHD disc and I have never seen anything sped up on it. Most likely his player was having some sort of a hiccup

[bubbafett73]

While we are on the topic of matrixed 2.0. I watched Die Hard 4K on my setup last night and I listened to the 2.0 soundtrack on my 5.1 speakers. I was only getting sound from the center, and front two. It was showing stereo on my Denon receiver instead of DTS-MA. I tried switching sound modes and it would just switch between direct and stereo. I have a low end setup because I don't have a lot of money, but I have a Denon AVR-S540BT, Sony UBPX700 and a TCL
55R625. I have tried to use all of the recommended settings, but I am having to run HDMI from the sony 4k player to the tv directly and hdmi from the sony to the Denon for the audio only. When I ran everything through the Denon I would get snow looking picture at times. I think it's the DTS-MA that is throwing the Denon off and not letting me choose DPL. I have been able to choose DPL or DPL MII on other movies. Hope I am not derailing the thread too much and please don't make fun of my setup. I have really enjoyed it so far and was a step up from my old Vizio 4K tv that didn't have HDR.

[david_blu]

Originally Posted by Sage00

Which scenes were sped up? Is this an UHD issue, because I’ve never noticed it on the Bluray?

Originally Posted by notops

Die Hard is my most watched UHD disc and I have never seen anything sped up on it. Most likely his player was having some sort of a hiccup

I think he means the weird motion effect of the plane scenes as McClane lands in LA. But it has always looked like that.
I expect there was some reason to make it more believable or something. I find it pointless but it's always been there.

[notops]

Originally Posted by david_blu

I think he means the weird motion effect of the plane scenes as McClane lands in LA. But it has always looked like that.
I expect there was some reason to make it more believable or something. I find it pointless but it's always been there.

If that's what he meant, then yes, been seeing that since the Laserdisc. It's so strange. But there's definitely nothing being sped up when they arrive at Nakatomi plaza

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by bubbafett73

While we are on the topic of matrixed 2.0. I watched Die Hard 4K on my setup last night and I listened to the 2.0 soundtrack on my 5.1 speakers. I was only getting sound from the center, and front two. It was showing stereo on my Denon receiver instead of DTS-MA. I tried switching sound modes and it would just switch between direct and stereo. I have a low end setup because I don't have a lot of money, but I have a Denon AVR-S540BT, Sony UBPX700 and a TCL
55R625. I have tried to use all of the recommended settings, but I am having to run HDMI from the sony 4k player to the tv directly and hdmi from the sony to the Denon for the audio only. When I ran everything through the Denon I would get snow looking picture at times. I think it's the DTS-MA that is throwing the Denon off and not letting me choose DPL. I have been able to choose DPL or DPL MII on other movies. Hope I am not derailing the thread too much and please don't make fun of my setup. I have really enjoyed it so far and was a step up from my old Vizio 4K tv that didn't have HDR.

If you were only getting sound from your front main channels, then the audio output was correct. The LED display on the receiver should show that it's decoding in stereo (not DTS-MA)because the DTS-HD 5.1 MA was not selected on the audio setup on the disc to play, so everything is fine.

[notops]

Originally Posted by slimdude

If you were only getting sound from your front main channels, then the audio output was correct. The LED display on the receiver should show that it's decoding in stereo (not DTS-MA)because the DTS-HD 5.1 MA was not selected on the blu-ray player to play, so everything is fine.

No, it was not correct. He was posting because he was having trouble getting his receiver to decode it with DPL, which is what he wanted to do in the first place.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

If it was made after Star Wars and carries an original "2.0 stereo" track then 99 times out of 100 it'll be a matrixed surround mix no matter what it's labelled as on the box.

Well, that and the credits almost always have a "Dolby Stereo" logo.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by notops

No, it was not correct. He was posting because he was having trouble getting his receiver to decode it with DPL, which is what he wanted to do in the first place.

It would've been better if he'd played the movie in DTS-HD-5.1 MA, then his 5.1 receiver would have automatically down converted the audio to core DTS 5.1 which would have sounded better than DPL anyway because DPL is matrixed, and DTS 5.1 is discrete. By the soundtrack being in DTS English, it's not going decode in dolby. For a soundtrack to play in a dolby soundfield, the disc must be encoded with dolby audio. The disc has a dolby digital 5.1 trach but it's in Spanish, but for English it's DTS.

[Alister_M]

Originally Posted by bubbafett73

While we are on the topic of matrixed 2.0. I watched Die Hard 4K on my setup last night and I listened to the 2.0 soundtrack on my 5.1 speakers. I was only getting sound from the center, and front two. It was showing stereo on my Denon receiver instead of DTS-MA. I tried switching sound modes and it would just switch between direct and stereo. I have a low end setup because I don't have a lot of money, but I have a Denon AVR-S540BT, Sony UBPX700 and a TCL
55R625. I have tried to use all of the recommended settings, but I am having to run HDMI from the sony 4k player to the tv directly and hdmi from the sony to the Denon for the audio only. When I ran everything through the Denon I would get snow looking picture at times. I think it's the DTS-MA that is throwing the Denon off and not letting me choose DPL. I have been able to choose DPL or DPL MII on other movies. Hope I am not derailing the thread too much and please don't make fun of my setup. I have really enjoyed it so far and was a step up from my old Vizio 4K tv that didn't have HDR.

Is your player set to output bitstream or PCM audio? Sounds like it might be outputting a channel-locked signal to which your AVR can't apply any additional processing, try changing some output audio settings and see if it makes any difference. I have an old AVR that can't decode lossless bitstream, so I have use onboard player decoding to PCM which channel-locks anything 5.1 or over, but it has no issues with applying DPL/PLIIX/DTS-Neo to 2.0 signals.

[notops]

Originally Posted by slimdude

If he wanted to audio down converted to DPL, then he should've just played the movie in DTS-HD-5.1 MA, then it would have down converted to standard DTS 5.1 which would have sounded better than DPL because DPL is matrixed, and DTS 5.1 is discrete.

No, he wanted to hear it as it would have sounded in a Dolby equipped theater in 1988, which is what the 2.0 has baked into it. DPL does not "downconvert", it unfolds the matrixed surround info that's already baked into it.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by notops

No, he wanted to hear it as it would have sounded in a Dolby equipped theater in 1988, which is what the 2.0 has baked into it. DPL does not "downconvert", it unfolds the matrixed surround info that's already baked into it.

You cannot convert DTS into Dolby it would have to be a core Dolby soundtrack for it play in DPL. If it was the DVD it can done. DPL is a Dolby codec soundfield.

[notops]

Originally Posted by slimdude

You cannot convert DTS into Dolby it would have to be a core Dolby soundtrack. If it was the DVD it can done.

You could not be more wrong about that. DTS is just a delivery system of the original Dolby audio mix that had the surround info baked into it..

If you don't want to take my word for it, look up GeoffD's explanations of how it works a page or so back on this thread. You don't seem to understand the fundamentals of matrixing.

[bubbafett73]

Originally Posted by Alister_M

Is your player set to output bitstream or PCM audio? Sounds like it might be outputting a channel-locked signal to which your AVR can't apply any additional processing, try changing some output audio settings and see if it makes any difference. I have an old AVR that can't decode lossless bitstream, so I have use onboard player decoding to PCM which channel-locks anything 5.1 or over, but it has no issues with applying DPL/PLIIX/DTS-Neo to 2.0 signals.

I have it set to bitstream which I thought was correct. I will try PCM when I get home and see if that makes a difference. It's not an old receiver though. I just bought it this year, but it's one of the lower tier Denon's I think. Thanks everyone for your suggestions so far.

Slimdude I have used DTS 2.0 in DPL before. The Dolby Pro Logic will convert a DTS 2.0 signal to a 4.0 It even shows a little DTS above the DPL on the display of the receiver.

[Alister_M]

Originally Posted by notops

You could not be more wrong about that. DTS is just a delivery system of the original Dolby audio mix that had the surround info baked into it..

Yep. My (ancient) receiver has a whole slew of different DPL settings - regular PL, several different variants of PLII (5.1 upmix), PLIIX (7.1 upmix) and then an equal number of DTS Neo-X settings. Any of those can be used on DTS/Dolby Digital or PCM streams, though my receiver disables them for any PCM signal with 5.1 or more channels. But there's certainly no issues with decoding a DTS signal to DPL, or Dolby Digital to DTS Neo-X.

[slimdude]

Originally Posted by bubbafett73

I have it set to bitstream which I thought was correct. I will try PCM when I get home and see if that makes a difference. It's not an old receiver though. I just bought it this year, but it's one of the lower tier Denon's I think. Thanks everyone for your suggestions so far.

Slimdude I have used DTS 2.0 in DPL before. The Dolby Pro Logic will convert a DTS 2.0 signal to a 4.0 It even shows a little DTS above the DPL on the display of the receiver.

I have Die Hard 4K UHD and a Denon receiver and for a test, I'm going to select the 2.0 soundtrack just to see what my receiver decoded as.
Generally whenever I watch my 4K movies I always select either Dolby Atmos, DTS:X or 5.1 whichever the disc is encoded with. I'll be back.

[notops]

Originally Posted by slimdude

I have Die Hard 4K UHD and a Denon receiver and for a test, I'm going to select the 2.0 soundtrack just to see what my receiver decoded as.
Generally whenever I watch my 4K movies I always select either Dolby Atmos, DTS:X or 5.1 whichever the disc is encoded with. I'll be back.

Dude, it doesn't matter what your receiver defaults to. If you wish to hear the original Dolby Stereo LCRS theatrical mix of Die Hard, play the 2.0 mix on the disc and enable your receiver play it back in DPL.