Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by bhampton

Haven't upgraded my blu ray of Almost Famous yet but I like the movie.

Until the 4K disc is readily available, kinda hard to find at the moment, I bought the 4K digital copy of the extended "Bootleg" cut for $7.99 at Vudu. It will do in the meantime AND I can share it with my friends.

[cheez avenger]

So Black Widow dropped hard on its second week and so much for second week PVOD transparency numbers - Disney has not released the numbers for that. It's regular theatrical drop number was something like 67%.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Until the 4K disc is readily available, kinda hard to find at the moment, I bought the 4K digital copy of the extended "Bootleg" cut for $7.99 at Vudu. It will do in the meantime AND I can share it with my friends.

You have me thinking. I pre-ordered it day 1 back in May. estimated for end of the month.

I have the theatrical from an old M2D on Vudu. I can buy the Bootleg in UHD for $7.99 o and also upgrade the theatrical for that price. Or i can buy the theatrical for $9.99 on itunes and it has the bootleg cut in HD as an extra.

love the movie, i never bought the blu-ray because i wanted the theatrical on disc. and if i wait maybe they'll fix the code and it'll redeem both.

either way I am getting sick of this hobby. nothing is ever in stock on release date.

[JohnAV]

Not everyone is happy

Theater Owners Blast Disney for Making ‘Black Widow’ Available Immediately on Streaming - Hollywood Reporter 7/18

The National Association of Theatre Owners says the decision is responsible for the superhero pic's "stunning collapse in its second weekend" at the box office.

Theater owners on Sunday blasted the Walt Disney Co. for making Marvel’s Black Widow available simultaneously in the home and on the big screen, saying the decision has undercut the tentpole’s box office potential and promoted piracy.

A press release from the National Association of Theater Owners didn’t mince words, saying that Black Widow suffered a “stunning collapse in its second weekend in theatrical revenues,” in addition to dropping an unprecedented 41 percent from Friday to Saturday during its opening over the July 9-11 frame.

“Despite assertions that this pandemic-era improvised release strategy was a success for Disney and the simultaneous release model, it demonstrates that an exclusive theatrical release means more revenue for all stakeholders in every cycle of the movie’s life,” NATO said.

Marvel and Disney’s Black Widow fell to No. 2 in its second outing with $26.3 million for the July 16-18 weekend. The superhero pic suffered a steep 67 percent decline, one of the biggest drops ever for a Marvel title, and the worst among the Marvel Cinematic Universe films released by Disney. (Most event films during the pandemic era have likewise suffered huge drop-offs.)

When announcing opening weekend box office results for July 9-11, Disney made pandemic-era history when taking the unusual step of adding Disney+ Premier Access revenue to Black Widow‘s total number. That pushed the film’s total global opening past the $218 million mark thanks to $60 million generated from households choosing to watch the superhero pic — starring Scarlett Johansson — at home for $30.

Behind closed doors, the decision to tack on the $60 million infuriated cinema owners, who have otherwise been willing to abide by day-and-date theatrical/streaming releases because of the COVID-19 crisis and the slow nature of the box office recovery.

This weekend, Disney declined to release updated Premier Access numbers, further muddling the issue for exhibitors.

“The many questions raised by Disney’s limited release of streaming data opening weekend are being rapidly answered by Black Widow’s disappointing and anomalous performance,” NATO said its Sunday missive. “The most important answer is that simultaneous release is a pandemic-era artifact that should be left to history with the pandemic itself.”

Through Sunday, Black Widow’s global box office total was $264 million and more than $324 million including revenue from Disney+ Premier Access.

Black Widow lost the July 16-18 weekend to Warner Bros.’ LeBron James-starrer Space Jam: A New Legacy, which came in ahead of expectations with $31.7 million. In pandemic times, that wouldn’t be considered a great number for a movie that cost $150 million to produce before marketing.

The subdued grosses, and steep second-weekend declines, signal that moviegoing is far from hitting normal levels. Movies have been unusually frontloaded. (F9, which had an exclusive theatrical release, also dipped 67 percent in its second weekend.)

Disney declined to comment on the NATO statement. Insiders, however, say the company is trying to come up with ways to reach all consumers in challenging times. They also note that Black Widow grossed a pandemic-era best $80 million domestically and $158 million globally in box office revenue.

NATO thinks otherwise, saying the standalone superhero offering should have debuted in the $92 million to $100 million range domestically. The trade organization points to cannibalization from Disney+ and piracy as the prime culprits for Black Widow‘s performance.

“One can assume the family-oriented Disney+ household is larger. How much? How much password sharing is there among Disney+ subscribers? Combined with the lost theatrical revenue and forgone traditional PVOD revenue, the answer to these questions will show that simultaneous release costs Disney money in revenue per viewer over the life of the film,” NATO says.

“Piracy no doubt further affected Black Widow’s performance, and will affect its future performance in international markets where it has yet to open,” the release continued. “Pristine digital copies became available within minutes of release on Disney+. Black Widow was the most torrented movie for the week ending July 12. “It is also available on myriad illegal streaming sites all over the Internet.”

NATO says this was also the case for simultaneous HBO Max releases. In a sweeping decree, Warner Media is sending all of its 2021 releases — including Space Jam 2 — to cinemas and to HBO Max at no extra charge. NATO adds, “How much money did everyone lose to simultaneous release piracy?”

Both Disney and WarnerMedia have indicated they will return to a traditional theatrical release when the pandemic subsidies, both in the U.S. and overseas.

Theaters can't have it both ways. Disney doesn't gamble with maximizing revenue. But the last paragraph does state that premiere access is not permanent.

[JohnAV]

Weekend tally

Box Office: ‘Space Jam: A New Legacy’ Benches ‘Black Widow’ With $31.7M Win - Hollywood Reporter 7/18

LeBron James was King of the box office this weekend.

Space Jam: A New Legacy, starring the basketball great, beat holdover Black Widow to top the chart with a better-than-expected domestic debut of $31.7 million from 3,956 theaters.

Marvel and Disney’s Black Widow fell to No. 2 in its second outing with $26.3 million. The superhero pic suffered a steep 67 percent decline, one of the biggest drops ever for a Marvel title, and the worst among the Marvel films released by Disney. The decline underscores that the box office recovery is far from over; also, the tentpole is available in the home via Disney+ Premier Access (piracy is another problem).

Heading into the weekend, Warner Bros. expected Space Jam 2 to open in the $20 million range in North America. That would have been a problematic start for a movie that cost a reported $150 million to make. The film instead was buoyed by an A- CinemaScore and an ethnically diverse audience.

Overseas — where numerous markets are still impacted by the pandemic — the film opened to a tepid $23 million from 64 territories for a global start of $54.7 million.

In North America, Space Jam 2 scored the biggest opening for a family title in the pandemic-era despite poor reviews, growing concerns over the Delta variant and new mask mandates in L.A. County that took effect just before midnight on Saturday. (L.A. is the country’s largest moviegoing market.)

Among ticket buyers, 61 percent were under 25, including 49 percent under 17. The film skewed male overall (54 percent). Caucasians made up 35 percent, followed by Blacks (31 percent), Latinos (27 percent), Asians (4 percent and Native Americans/Other (3 percent). Space Jam over indexed in the East and South, while the West led the charge in pure dollars, according to PostTrak.

The movie’s performance is another win for filmmaker Malcolm D. Lee (Girls Trip).

In Space Jam 2, James encounters a plethora of classic Warner Bros. characters. Michael Jordan starred in the first Space Jam, which debuted to roughly $27 million without adjusting for inflation.

The live-action/animated movie is also available on HBO Max. (Black Widow is likewise playing in the home via Disney+ Premier Access for $30.)

Black Widow, placing second, finished Sunday with a 10-day of domestic total $132 million. Overseas, the Scarlett Johansson-starring superhero pic earned another $29.9 million for a global box office total of $264 million and more than $324 million including revenue from Disney+ Premier Access

Last weekend, Disney revealed that Black Widow generated $60 million from Disney+ (Disney+ customers must pay an additional $30 to watch a Premier title). However, the company on Sunday declined to reveal updated Disney+ numbers for the big-budget tentpole.

In terms of pandemic era event pics, F9 also tumbled 67 percent in its sophomore outing.

Sony’s psychological thriller Escape Room: Champion of Tournaments debuted in third place with an estimated $8.8 million from 2,815 theaters.

The sequel was dismissed by many critics but fared somewhat better with moviegoers, who gave it a B CinemaScore. More than 60 percent of ticket buyers were between ages 18 and 34, not surprising for a genre film. Similar to Space Jam 2, Escape Room 2 likewise played to a diverse audience. The mix was 34 Caucasian, 28 percent Black, 26 percent Latino, 12 percent Asian/Native American/Other.

At the specialty box office, the new documentary Roadrunner: A Film About Anthony Bourdain scored an impressive $1.9 million in its debut from 927 locations to place No. 8. That’s the top documentary opening of the year, as well as the best for any specialty film (the art house market has been hit particularly hard by the pandemic). Focus Features and CNN Films partnered on the film.

The doc about the famous chef, who died in 2018, sparked a debate over ethical issues last week when Oscar-winning director Morgan Neville (20 Feet from Stardom) revealed he had used artificial intelligence to recreate Bourdain’s voice for 45 seconds.

Roadrunner played best on the coasts, with four of the top 10 runs coming from New York City as art house theaters start to make a comeback.

Elsewhere at the specialty box office, Nicolas Cage-starrer Pig debuted to roughly $1 million from 550 runs for Neon to round out the top 10.

Universal’s F9, meanwhile, approached $600 million at the worldwide box office with a domestic total of $154.8 million and $436.4 million. It is only the second film of the pandemic era after A Quiet Place Part II to cross the $150 million mark in North America.

F9 came in No. 4 domestically with $7.6 million, followed by fellow Universal release The Boss Baby: Family Business, which earned $4.7 million for a North American tally of $44.6 million. Universal also claimed the next spot in the chart with The Forever Purge, which grossed $4.2 million for a domestic total of $35.9 million and $48.4 million globally.

Paramount’s A Quiet Place Part II — which came in seventh domestically with $2.3 million — finished Sunday with an impressive domestic tally of $155 million and more than $286 million worldwide.

[unberechenbar]

Didn't know that LA was the biggest domestic moviegoing market. Also never heard of Cinemascore. Is it like Rotten Tomatoes and Imdb?

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by unberechenbar

Didn't know that LA was the biggest domestic moviegoing market. Also never heard of Cinemascore. Is it like Rotten Tomatoes and Imdb?

https://www.cinemascore.com/

[unberechenbar]

I see. I would have thought Those Who Wish Me Dead would have scored lower. Interesting that no recent releases have scored under B-.

[cheez avenger]

I watched Pig tonight and it's one of the best films of the year. Cage could get an Oscar nomination if the snobs can get past the title.

[bhampton]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

Not everyone is happy

Disney is kind of greedy.

At least they finally released the thing.

Still waiting on Bond.

My kids are marvel crazy like I never was or I would have never agreed to D+. Once in a while I look to see if anything I want is on there. I like Pixar and I'm glad there's shark stuff.... I like Shark Beach and some of the Shark Attack Files look interesting.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

I watched Pig tonight and it's one of the best films of the year. Cage could get an Oscar nomination if the snobs can get past the title.

Will pick this up on disc.

[Ender14]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

So Black Widow dropped hard on its second week and so much for second week PVOD transparency numbers - Disney has not released the numbers for that. It's regular theatrical drop number was something like 67%.

And I doubt they will release the PVOD numbers because I guarantee the drop was greater than the 67% in theaters. As they showed last week, if the numbers are good they have no problem tooting their own horn. But their silence in this case says everything. The big tentpoles will only be successful with theatrical releases.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Ender14

And I doubt they will release the PVOD numbers because I guarantee the drop was greater than the 67% in theaters. As they showed last week, if the numbers are good they have no problem tooting their own horn. But their silence in this case says everything. The big tentpoles will only be successful with theatrical releases.

Yep, you and I have said it all along. The industry NEEDS theatrical. The alternative will be modest budget films like A Quiet Place 2 which carries far less risk and has a good chance of turning a profit. People think subscription streaming can carry on with 100-200 budget films but I can’t see how.

Regardless, Disney will see sense as they love money.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by flyry

You have me thinking. I pre-ordered it day 1 back in May. estimated for end of the month.

I have the theatrical from an old M2D on Vudu. I can buy the Bootleg in UHD for $7.99 o and also upgrade the theatrical for that price. Or i can buy the theatrical for $9.99 on itunes and it has the bootleg cut in HD as an extra.

love the movie, i never bought the blu-ray because i wanted the theatrical on disc. and if i wait maybe they'll fix the code and it'll redeem both.

either way I am getting sick of this hobby. nothing is ever in stock on release date.

Pre-ordering a disc months in advance only to have it delayed is very frustrating and it has gotten worse with the pandemic. I rarely even bother with pre-orders unless it is for a very limited title.

The upside of not pre-ordering is that I get to wait for reviews before buying and the user reviews from our fellow forum members sometimes reveal widespread issues with some discs. For example, Willy Wonka on 4K discc is reported by some of our members to have audio sync issues particularly with my player: the Oppo 203.

The other advantage to waiting is that when I do order I know if the disc is actually in stock. If it isn't, I wait until it is. I hate having a bunch of open pending orders.

Hopefully, pre-orders will be less annoying after the pandemic...how ever far off that is. For Almost Famous "Bootleg" cut my 4K digital copy will do just fine until the disc is actually in stock somewhere; $7.99 is a very low price to be able to scratch that "I want it now" itch.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by cheez avenger

I watched Pig tonight and it's one of the best films of the year. Cage could get an Oscar nomination if the snobs can get past the title.

Nicolas Cage is consistently entertaining. I will have to acquire this sometime along with Mandy.

[cheez avenger]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Will pick this up on disc.

Me too. I hope it gets a 4K disc release. Worst case it'll get a digital 4K edition.

[veritas]

How elastic is your guys demand for movies and tv shows?

Mine is pretty price elastic I am willing to wait months and sometimes years for a price drop. I used to buy 3d films from europe but they tripled shipping costs and added vat so I probably wont ever buy them again (8 dollar order now costs like 30 or 40). When 4k came out it didint increase the price I was willing to pay for movies it lowered the price I was willing to pay for blu rays. When steel books went from 20 dollars day one to 35 dollars day one i stopped buying them day one and started buying films at clearance or when the reg edition went to 5 or 10.

Basically before I see the price of a film or tv show i have an acceptable price in my head and if the price is above that price i wont buy it. The price i am willing to pay also drops over time so the more greedy a company is, the less I support them.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by veritas

How elastic is your guys demand for movies and tv shows?

[Show spoiler]Mine is pretty price elastic I am willing to wait months and sometimes years for a price drop. I used to buy 3d films from europe but they tripled shipping costs and added vat so I probably wont ever buy them again (8 dollar order now costs like 30 or 40). When 4k came out it didint increase the price I was willing to pay for movies it lowered the price I was willing to pay for blu rays. When steel books went from 20 dollars day one to 35 dollars day one i stopped buying them day one and started buying films at clearance or when the reg edition went to 5 or 10.

Basically before I see the price of a film or tv show i have an acceptable price in my head and if the price is above that price i wont buy it. The price i am willing to pay also drops over time so the more greedy a company is, the less I support them.

If I want something strongly, I buy it right away. A person can grow old waiting for bargains and I'm already there. They can also go out of print. At this point, I value time more than I do money.

I very much want A Quiet Place Part II on 4K disc when it is released next week and I will buy it at whatever its release day price happens to be. I don't wanna wait; I wants it now.

For titles that are of a more casual interest, and for some that are just format upgrades of something that I already own, I am willing to wait for a sale. Some movies I have bought over and over again as the formats have progressed and the more this happens the more I want a good price for the next upgrade, but not always. I love The Lord Of The Rings trilogy and I will buy every upgraded edition that comes along until the day I die no matter the cost.

All businesses need to make a profit and I do not see this need as their necessarily being "greedy." The more profit the studios make selling physical media, the more releases we will get. If everyone were to wait for discs to wind up in the $5 bin at Walmart, the death of physical media would be hastened if not even assured. I will keep buying discs, and often at release day prices, because I want to both satisfy my desires immediately and I also want to encourage still more releases. I will also gladly reward a company with more of my business if they offer a quality product. Receiving a high quality product means much more to me than getting a deal.

Lastly, as someone who purchased laserdiscs for many years during their reign as the best home video format, and paid their much higher prices, pretty much everything released today is automatically a bargain in comparison.

[rui no onna]

Originally Posted by veritas

How elastic is your guys demand for movies and tv shows?

Not very. I buy very few movies. Most, I'm fine just streaming on Netflix or not watching at all. However, I'm willing to pay a pretty penny for the ones I do buy.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by veritas

How elastic is your guys demand for movies and tv shows?

Mine is pretty price elastic I am willing to wait months and sometimes years for a price drop. I used to buy 3d films from europe but they tripled shipping costs and added vat so I probably wont ever buy them again (8 dollar order now costs like 30 or 40). When 4k came out it didint increase the price I was willing to pay for movies it lowered the price I was willing to pay for blu rays. When steel books went from 20 dollars day one to 35 dollars day one i stopped buying them day one and started buying films at clearance or when the reg edition went to 5 or 10.

Basically before I see the price of a film or tv show i have an acceptable price in my head and if the price is above that price i wont buy it. The price i am willing to pay also drops over time so the more greedy a company is, the less I support them.

Price is not a issue. I don’t drink or smoke, I have no kids.