Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Each movie on disc doesn't need to continue to be profitable to continue to be available. When a movie is no longer profitable it will go out of print but all the copies that have already been made will still be in circulation.

With digital everything has to be continually profitable to be available. It doesn't matter if a movie sells a million copies in it's first year, if it has very low demand 10 years later then it will become unavailable. The million copies that were already sold can never be redistributed.

I don't follow this line of thinking.

It most likely costs pennies for the movies to be in the cloud

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by flyry

I don't follow this line of thinking.

It most likely costs pennies for the movies to be in the cloud

Then why have thousands of titles already been removed?

https://www.google.com/#q=site:amazo...urchases+of%22

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Then why have thousands of titles already been removed?

https://www.google.com/#q=site:amazo...urchases+of%22

Your link does not work

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by flyry

Your link does not work

Try this instead.

http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=site%3...urchases+of%22

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Try this instead.

http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=site%3...urchases+of%22

Still didn't work. You can be a smartass all you want but that doesn't change the fact that you are fear mongering in regards to digital.

[zodwriter]

I've been following this thread since it began and finally decided to tell my digital horror story. Back in 2007 there was a TV Show on NBC called Journeyman. While that series was airing Amazon was selling the series digitally. I purchased the entire season prior to the end of the series. Later that same year NBC cancelled Journeyman and apparently ordered the series be removed from digital retailers. The show was not only removed in it's entirety from my Amazon digital library but I was not refunded or compensated in anyway for the the loss of content. According to Amazon it was out of their hands because the owners of the content withdrew the distribution rights. For a long time I was really upset. The series has never been released officially on DVD or Blu Ray and to this day never returned to digital either. I realize this happened a long time ago and the digital format was still relatively new but the general concept of studios being able to remove digital movies at will still exists. I have had a VUDU account for many years and have about 284 movies in my library and although I have not lost access to any titles, I've noticed at least one Ninja (2009) that is no-longer being sold on VUDU but I still have access to the title. Perhaps the studios have realized that removing access to people's movies will only hurt their future bottom-line? So they may now have a system implemented that allows people who purchased content to keep it in their personal libraries regardless of if the title or titles are currently available for purchase. Hopefully at some point we get clarification one way or the other. It is because of these concerns that it is prudent for people to still keep a physical collection and or backup their Blu Rays and DVDs to a personal server for assured future streaming ability. Studio controlled digital content is not guaranteed to last our lifetime and until that reliability can be set in stone physical will always be the best option for those who wish to own movies and TV Shows.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by flyry

Still didn't work. You can be a smartass all you want but that doesn't change the fact that you are fear mongering in regards to digital.

I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. You said the link directly to my Google search didn't work so I provided an alternate link.

Just copy and paste this exact phrase into Google:

site:amazon.com "Our agreements with the content provider don’t allow purchases of"

It comes up with thousands of titles that have been removed from Amazon Instant Video.

[Dynamo of Eternia]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

I've been following this thread since it began and finally decided to tell my digital horror story. Back in 2007 there was a TV Show on NBC called Journeyman. While that series was airing Amazon was selling the series digitally. I purchased the entire season prior to the end of the series. Later that same year NBC cancelled Journeyman and apparently ordered the series be removed from digital retailers. The show was not only removed in it's entirety from my Amazon digital library but I was not refunded or compensated in anyway for the the loss of content. According to Amazon it was out of their hands because the owners of the content withdrew the distribution rights. For a long time I was really upset. The series has never been released officially on DVD or Blu Ray and to this day never returned to digital either. I realize this happened a long time ago and the digital format was still relatively new but the general concept of studios being able to remove digital movies at will still exists. I have had a VUDU account for many years and have about 284 movies in my library and although I have not lost access to any titles, I've noticed at least one Ninja (2009) that is no-longer being sold on VUDU but I still have access to the title. Perhaps the studios have realized that removing access to people's movies will only hurt their future bottom-line? So they may now have a system implemented that allows people who purchased content to keep it in their personal libraries regardless of if the title or titles are currently available for purchase. Hopefully at some point we get clarification one way or the other. It is because of these concerns that it is prudent for people to still keep a physical collection and or backup their Blu Rays and DVDs to a personal server for assured future streaming ability. Studio controlled digital content is not guaranteed to last our lifetime and until that reliability can be set in stone physical will always be the best option for those who wish to own movies and TV Shows.

I remember Journeyman. I watched it during it's short run. It was an interesting concept. It's too bad it got canceled.

That REALLY sucks about you losing access to it, especially since it's not something that is easy to come by in another format.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Dynamo of Eternia

I remember Journeyman. I watched it during it's short run. It was an interesting concept. It's too bad it got canceled.

That REALLY sucks about you losing access to it, especially since it's not something that is easy to come by in another format.

Fortunately it's available on DVD in the UK.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B00A3VVJC4/

Physical media to the rescue! No one can take it away!

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. You said the link directly to my Google search didn't work so I provided an alternate link.

Just copy and paste this exact phrase into Google:



It comes up with thousands of titles that have been removed from Amazon Instant Video.

Oh no, what ever will I do without House Hunters 16

My apologies though, I did understand what I was looking at.

Not sure how accurate it is though since one of the first titles listed is the animated Beauty and the Beast and that is clearly still available for purchase and viewing on Amazon.

The other one is The Little Mermaid, which we know what Disney does with their vault.

My point is all this "my titles will disappear" thinking from anti-digital posters is overblown.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by flyry

My point is all this "my titles will disappear" thinking from anti-digital posters is overblown.

Whether or not it happens often it's clear that titles can and do disappear. It's dangerous to put all the control over the availability of each title in the hands of studios.

Just because nothing you care about has been removed (yet) doesn't mean that digital is a safe bet.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Whether or not it happens often it's clear that titles can and do disappear. It's dangerous to put all the control over the availability of each title in the hands of studios.

Just because nothing you care about has been removed (yet) doesn't mean that digital is a safe bet.

I get that, but I disagree with what you said earlier.

I don't see the studios saying in 2027, "No one's bought Spotlight for a long time, let's remove it from all digital providers!"

That just doesn't make sense to me.

[willbfree]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

Back in 2007 there was a TV Show on NBC called Journeyman. Later that same year NBC cancelled Journeyman and apparently ordered the series be removed from digital retailers. … and to this day never returned to digital either.

Holy sht, I didn't realize it wasn't on iTunes. I got the British DVDs for the extras, but had no idea my 720 downloads were the only way to watch the show in (almost) high-def. I'm gonna back them up right now.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by flyry

I get that, but I disagree with what you said earlier.

I don't see the studios saying in 2027, "No one's bought Spotlight for a long time, let's remove it from all digital providers!"

That just doesn't make sense to me.

It wouldn't surprise me, video game companies have been doing that for years. Microsoft looked at all the downloadable content for the original Xbox and said "hardly anyone's using it so let's remove all of it!"

Downloadable movies are relatively new so studios aren't removing titles on a large scale yet; they are still trying to entice buyers. But I see no reason why they wouldn't remove a large number of unprofitable titles to cut costs in the future. Companies don't tend to support products that no longer make them money, why would digital products be any different?

Will all the studios remove a large number of movies? Probably not. But they all can and it's impossible to know who will. That's why it's important to put control over each movie in as many hands as possible.

[willbfree]

If the amount of effort it takes a studio to distribute residuals on a title that earned ten bucks in a year is as much work as to do the same on a title that earned a million, I could see how studios would not want to keep the lower earner available. Too much effort for too little reward.

I don't know how studios pay residuals. Maybe there's some company that keeps track of every artist who ever lived and how to pay them - what their current address or bank account is, or who their current heirs are - but if not, a studio would probably want to focus their efforts on their steady sellers, and only their steady sellers.

[zodwriter]

The incentive for studios to leave people's digital libraries intact is for no other reason to keep the customers happy enough to get them to keep purchasing digital movies. If people know collections are just whim induced studio charity cases (extended rentals) what incentive do customers have to buy them? Movies are different from video games. Your digital collection of films doesn't depend on a console, it depends on account access. In the case of VUDU specifically that app is available for countless platforms and the list of devices keeps growing. The biggest change I could see happening is that if VUDU closes down studios might force you to create a specific account with them to access your collection which would be a hassle because there are so many different studios out there. However, if VUDU continues to grow and can maintain being the digital go-to so to speak that won't be a problem for a while. All this of course is wishful thinking as I would hate to lose my 294+ digital collection. My amazon/Journeyman example will keep me skeptical and always compel me to take the necessary steps to ensure that I never lose anymore of the movies and TV Shows that are most important to me

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

The incentive for studios to leave people's digital libraries intact is for no other reason to keep the customers happy enough to get them to keep purchasing digital movies.

That only goes so far. The backlash would be extremely minor if people start losing a small percentage of the titles in their collections many years after they've bought them. And rightfully so: it would be extremely entitled to say that because you paid $10 for a movie the studio who owns the rights is required to pay to make sure that title remains available for the rest of your life.

No company should have to support their products forever. They should instead make products that don't require their continued support to function (like physical media).

[zodwriter]

I agree PenguinMaster! However an account based digital service should be able to maintain your collection. It should never be up to the studio to maintain the digital content. I'll use VUDU again as an example. VUDU is the go between from studio to customer. The studio releases the digital movie. VUDU sells it and then maintains it in your library for however long you keep that account. Regardless of if the studio is currently selling those movies or not. Once purchased it's there for the account holder to access at anytime. It's not that much of a stretch to see that as the norm. Otherwise the studios should just do away with services like VUDU and itunes and sell the content directly from their studio based platform. I can understand a studio being able to remove a title from being sold if they so choose. I was nervous when Ninja (2009) was no-longer available for sale because I feared I might have another loss. That was not the case and I can still watch Ninja (2009) as often as I like. If it was being maintained by the studio I probably would have lost the digital rights to the film when it was not for sale anymore. It's been longer than two years as well, so I am deducing that it probably is VUDU maintaining my account in combination with the UV locker.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

I agree PenguinMaster! However an account based digital service should be able to maintain your collection. It should never be up to the studio to maintain the digital content. I'll use VUDU again as an example. VUDU is the go between from studio to customer. The studio releases the digital movie. VUDU sells it and then maintains it in your library for however long you keep that account. Regardless of if the studio is currently selling those movies or not. Once purchased it's there for the account holder to access at anytime. It's not that much of a stretch to see that as the norm. Otherwise the studios should just do away with services like VUDU and itunes and sell the content directly from their studio based platform.

I doubt VUDU and iTunes will continue hosting all the movies that don't make them money anymore either. They are businesses first and foremost. If a product is unprofitable they'll stop offering it.

[flyry]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I doubt VUDU and iTunes will continue hosting all the movies that don't make them money anymore either. They are businesses first and foremost. If a product is unprofitable they'll stop offering it.

The movies are just sitting there in the cloud.

Videogames are a poor analogy as mentioned since they are system and company specific etc.

Some of you sound like the paranoid people who think their guns are gonna get taken