Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[whipnet]

The movies you can no longer buy on VUDU, but remain in your collection are still annoying as hell. VUDU has no way to search your library, so searching for say "Monty Python's Holy Grail" yields nothing, and Roku search is no help because it doesn't exist to buy on VUDU.

To watch it, I have to scroll through 800+ movies, and on Roku it's a slow pain.

So technically the movie's there, but they don't make it easy to get to.

*

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by flyry

The movies are just sitting there in the cloud.

"The cloud" is thousands of servers all around the world. In order to maintain fast speeds every movie has to be on a large percentage of them. That can get very expensive.

Let's break down the numbers:

I'd estimate about 15,000 new movies/TV episodes per year. 10GB each. Stored on 1000 servers each (spread around the world).
That's about 150,000 terabytes of data. That would cost about $2 Million to store.

Do you really think they'd spend that to upgrade their servers every year rather than just deleting all the movies that aren't selling (and are costing them millions)?

[zodwriter]

Take your Blu Rays digitize your collection and use Plex media server. No need to use VUDU or discs for playback ever again. Granted Hard Drive storage for your home server can get costly if you have a ton of movies. However there is no chance the studios can take the movies away and if you set the server up correctly you will have perfect direct playback with no loss in picture or sound quality. That in my opinion is the smartest alternative to digital because it beats digital at it's own game and is legal and future proof. Not to mention that it preserves your Blu Ray collection.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

Take your Blu Rays digitize your collection and use Plex media server. No need to use VUDU or discs for playback ever again. Granted Hard Drive storage for your home server can get costly if you have a ton of movies. However there is no chance the studios can take the movies away and if you set the server up correctly you will have perfect direct playback with no loss in picture or sound quality. That in my opinion is the smartest alternative to digital because it beats digital at it's own game and is legal and future proof. Not to mention that it preserves your Blu Ray collection.

Sounds good to me. I don't care how you play your movies as long as they are distributed physically.

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

Take your Blu Rays digitize your collection and use Plex media server. No need to use VUDU or discs for playback ever again. Granted Hard Drive storage for your home server can get costly if you have a ton of movies. However there is no chance the studios can take the movies away and if you set the server up correctly you will have perfect direct playback with no loss in picture or sound quality. That in my opinion is the smartest alternative to digital because it beats digital at it's own game and is legal and future proof. Not to mention that it preserves your Blu Ray collection.

No need to use Vudu ever again? How will I watch any of my 1500 movies in a hotel or at a friend or relative's house. One of the great things about Vudu is that I can take my movies everywhere. I travel on business a lot so it's great to just take my Roku and connect it to the hotel tv and wi-fi and watch any of my movies or tv shows. No more carrying a bulky blu-ray player and a handful of discs.

[zodwriter]

As I pointed out with a media server you can stream your Blu Ray collection. No lugging around discs. Plex for example is an app available on a growing list of devices that increases almost weekly. You could easily stream everything wherever you go.

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

As I pointed out with a media server you can stream your Blu Ray collection. No lugging around discs. Plex for example is an app available on a growing list of devices that increases almost weekly. You could easily stream everything wherever you go.

But about 90% of the 1500 movies I own on Vudu, I no longer own or ever owned on blu-ray. I would have to acquire them again and not to mention all the trouble and expenses. Vudu is the more convenient way to go.

[zodwriter]

I am speaking in regards to people who have large Blu Ray collections and don't have any desire to embrace digital streaming in the form of a Studio controlled environment like iTunes or VUDU. It's a best of both worlds solution.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I doubt VUDU and iTunes will continue hosting all the movies that don't make them money anymore either. They are businesses first and foremost. If a product is unprofitable they'll stop offering it.

Originally Posted by flyry

The movies are just sitting there in the cloud.

Videogames are a poor analogy as mentioned since they are system and company specific etc.

Some of you sound like the paranoid people who think their guns are gonna get taken

Exactly, Penguin makes it seem like Streaming Providers are constantly updating these Movies. That's why I keep saying it's all Digital, it's Stored on a Disc or the Server Cloud. Once you own it all they have to do is give you Access to that Digital File. No Smoke and Mirrors, it's a very simple concept.

[alchav21]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Once you own it all they have to do is give you Access to that Digital File. No Smoke and Mirrors, it's a very simple concept.

Originally Posted by hariseldon

Except you don't own it if it's on their cloud. You're often paying the same or more for owning nothing except an online library card

What's ownership anyway, the Movie really belongs to the creator so all we should have is the right to view it. So if we can do that for 99 years most of us should be happy. I still have hundreds of DVD's I never watch, and I "Own" all of them. Now I have 500 HDX Movies and TV Shows that I watch all the time!

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by alchav21

Exactly, Penguin makes it seem like Streaming Providers are constantly updating these Movies. That's why I keep saying it's all Digital, it's Stored on a Disc or the Server Cloud. Once you own it all they have to do is give you Access to that Digital File. No Smoke and Mirrors, it's a very simple concept.

They're not constantly updating their movies. They're constantly adding thousands of additional movies. It would save them millions of dollars to delete the old movies that aren't selling and use that space for the new movies.

Originally Posted by alchav21

What's ownership anyway, the Movie really belongs to the creator so all we should have is the right to view it.

No, we technically don't own the any of our movies. But we do own the discs they are on and those discs grant us access to the movies. No one has the ability nor legal right to take those away. With digital the studios and digital providers have both the ability and legal right to take away access.

With digital providing access is an ongoing cost for the studios and digital providers. With physical from the second that the disc is sold the studios and stores never have to spend another cent. Whether or not titles continue to be available and watchable decades later doesn't rely on the content providers.

Originally Posted by alchav21

So if we can do that for 99 years most of us should be happy. I still have hundreds of DVD's I never watch, and I "Own" all of them. Now I have 500 HDX Movies and TV Shows that I watch all the time!

It's a big leap to assume you'll have access to everything for 99 years just because nothing of yours has been taken away in the last 5 years.

[squatting hen]

Honest question for everyone.....with the amount of new tv shows and movies that are released all of the time, realistically, and honestly, how often do you really go back and watch your collection over and over again? Back when I was buying discs, I had quite a few for years that were still sealed.

There are so many things on my watch list that I don't have time for, that I never watch something I have already seen.

Maybe it's just for the "collection" and the "it's there if I want it", but the only thing that gets more than one viewing with us, is kids movies.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by squatting hen

Honest question.....with the amount of new tv shows and movies that are released all of the time, realistically, and honestly, how often do you really go back and watch your collection over and over again? Back when I was buying discs, I had quite a few for years that were still sealed.

There are so many things on my watch list that I don't have time for, that I never watch something I have already seen.

Maybe it's just for the "collection" and the "it's there if I want it", but the only thing that gets more than one viewing with us, is kids movies.

I have hundreds of movies and TV shows I haven't watched yet but that never stops me from rewatching the movies and TV shows I have seen. It all depends on my mood: there's nothing inherently more appealing about a movie I haven't seen compared to a movie I've seen and know that I like.

[squatting hen]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

I have hundreds of movies and TV shows I haven't watched yet but that never stops me from rewatching the movies and TV shows I have seen. It all depends on my mood: there's nothing inherently more appealing about a movie I haven't seen compared to a movie I've seen and know that I like.

I can get that. I do the opposite though. I will always (okay, always can't be true, so 99%) pick something I haven't seen over something I have. I have so many I want to watch, but just don't have the time. So when I do get a chance, I pick something I haven't seen yet. Which is why, and I don't want this to happen, if I lost movies, it wouldn't be the end of the world. There is always something new coming out.

I had my storage unit broken into between moves. We moved across the country and had quite a bit in storage while we looked for a place, and had a few hundred bluray's and....I know....HDVD's stolen. I was very disappointed and upset. But honestly, it's okay. I don't like it one bit, but we never really watched them over and over. I now have 3 HDDVD players without any movies but oh well. I did have about 50 blu rays with us (Disney, Special Sets, 3D titles) so not everything was lost. Also, thankfully we had a few of them on digital, not all though.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by squatting hen

I had my storage unit broken into between moves. We moved across the country and had quite a bit in storage while we looked for a place, and had a few hundred bluray's and....I know....HDVD's stolen. I was very disappointed and upset. But honestly, it's okay. I don't like it one bit, but we never really watched them.

All of my Blu-rays and DVDs are replaceable. If they were stolen or destroyed I could rebuy every single one of them. It's no big deal if they are out of print, I'd just buy used copies. At worst it's expensive, but nothing would be lost.

But digital movies and TV shows that are removed are not replaceable. If the studios and digital providers stop offering them then they're gone.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by squatting hen

Honest question.....with the amount of new tv shows and movies that are released all of the time, realistically, and honestly, how often do you really go back and watch your collection over and over again? Back when I was buying discs, I had quite a few for years that were still sealed.

There are so many things on my watch list that I don't have time for, that I never watch something I have already seen.

Maybe it's just for the "collection" and the "it's there if I want it", but the only thing that gets more than one viewing with us, is kids movies.

Not directed at me but quite often actually. I watched Leon again last month and my horrors always get a run out in October. Also, if there is a new franchise film out (MI for example) I tend to watch the last one to refresh my memory and get me in the mood. I also have movie marathons in the holidays.

I buy all my new movies blind and I find that the best way of doing things. My research means I very rarely buy a dud.

[zodwriter]

I lost a bunch of Blu Rays and DVDs before I moved from my old place after a basement flood. I sympathize. A lot of people tend to forget that although studios cannot takeaway your Blu Rays and DVDs they can still be lost. I had around 100 titles and although they can be repurchased sometimes it's not economical to do so.

[squatting hen]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

All of my Blu-rays and DVDs are replaceable. If they were stolen or destroyed I could rebuy every single one of them. It's no big deal if they are out of print, I'd just buy used copies. At worst it's expensive, but nothing would be lost.

But digital movies and TV shows that are removed are not replaceable. If the studios and digital providers stop offering them then they're gone.

...but would you rebuy every single one? I know you could find them, but I am sure you have some that you might not need/want to rebuy.

I knew they could be replaced. I couldn't do that financially, but I realized I didn't really need to. I liked my collection, but once they were gone and I moved past the disappointment, I realized I didn't need to replace them.

Part of me feels that if they studio takes a movie away, it is their loss, the directors loss, and a loss everyone involved in making the film. They shouldn't want to do that, but if they do, it is out of my control and if I wanted it, they just won't get my money. I would get something else.

I am sure we can all agree that the cost of a digital movie on the buy/sale thread is a bargain. When you can "own" a title for the cost of the rental, that is a pretty good deal. Now, I realize that those prices were re not intended to be that way by the studio, and something can change at anytime. But your signature line, "Streaming and downloads are the death of preservation of the arts" I am not sure I agree with. I understand how it applies in your situation, and what you believe, but without the current pricing on codes, I wouldn't be able to enjoy most of the films I do today. Thus, as someone who enjoys the art of film, without the current digital market, I would not be able to enjoy as much film as I am able to.

[squatting hen]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Not directed at me but quite often actually. I watched Leon again last month and my horrors always get a run out in October. Also, if there is a new franchise film out (MI for example) I tend to watch the last one to refresh my memory and get me in the mood. I also have movie marathons in the holidays.

I buy all my new movies blind and I find that the best way of doing things. My research means I very rarely buy a dud.

The question was for anyone and everyone. I was just curious how may people actually go back and watch their collection. Now if you have 500 movies, I am sure there are quite a few that have only been viewed once.

My point being, I realized I didn't need to own movies. I owned hundreds at one point, but after a loss, I didn't replace them. As I mentioned, my backlog of titles is extensive, thus I wouldn't pick to watch something I have already seen over something I haven't.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by squatting hen

...but would you rebuy every single one? I know you could find them, but I am sure you have some that you might not need/want to rebuy.

I wouldn't replace them all. But I can be certain that all the ones I would want to replace would still be available.

Originally Posted by squatting hen

I am sure we can all agree that the cost of a digital movie on the buy/sale thread is a bargain. When you can "own" a title for the cost of the rental, that is a pretty good deal. Now, I realize that those prices were re not intended to be that way by the studio, and something can change at anytime. But your signature line, "Streaming and downloads are the death of preservation of the arts" I am not sure I agree with. I understand how it applies in your situation, and what you believe, but without the current pricing on codes, I wouldn't be able to enjoy most of the films I do today. Thus, as someone who enjoys the art of film, without the current digital market, I would not be able to enjoy as much film as I am able to.

I have bought plenty of titles on Blu-ray for the cost of a rental. Plus if you're only interested in watching movies once then the absolute cheapest option for most movies is to rent a Blu-ray or DVD. With a subscription to DVD.com you can rent 93,000 movies for less than $1 each.

Also for any prices to be "not what the studio intended" there has to be a secondary market. The only way that any digital copies have that market is if they're included with physical copies. You therefore can't ever buy any movies or TV shows at those prices if they aren't available on physical media and you should be very grateful to all of us that are buying physical copies.