Third Window Films Discussion Thread

[Rutger Lundgren]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

Think the bigger companies who handle titles like The Wailing and Chaser focus on a larger audience who want to pay less to watch films and DVDs provide the option for that. The major distributors are not really aiming at collectors so they can make more money off dvds as the production costs are way way lower. I don't really think people understand how expensive blurays are to make, especially considering how cheaply they're sold for. In order to make money, it's not easy to discount them, but the studios are aiming at titles which can be sold in bulk, at discounted prices.
Though for Korean cinema in general, I think the fact that all korean films were available in brilliant packages with english subtitles for decent prices from korea (through yesasia or the such) it meant that the limited audience who were buying them were just getting them first there and leaving an even smaller audience for a local release. for the major titles like Chaser, Wailing, etc, it goes to the big studios, so the titles small companies like mine would be handling fall into the explanation I gave above. Also, non-super big, but popular titles tend to find distributors all over, so it's very hard to recoup just in the UK.
for japanese films, they're rarely sold with english subtitles in japan, and if so, at super high prices, plus japanese companies are notoriously hard to work with so their films don't make it to many distributors, which allows me to have the only bluray release of a title in the West, cheaper than the Japanese and therefore gives me a little window to work with. Saying that, even the only release in the West of films like Hanagatami, Dangan runner, blue spring, etc etc, barely break even, so that shows you what the market is like anyways

Right, I understand that. Still - and I'm talking in general here, I know that a smaller label like TWF doesn't have that many resources - I would expect that a good deal of those same hard core fans of Korean films would consider re-buying them in domestic bells and whistles editions. The vast majority of Korean releases are English friendly, but only for the main feature, and rarely for any extras. When talking about The Wailing in particular, that has to be one of the biggest Korean films of the past decade, and the US release is pretty poor when it comes to extras. Meanwhile, the Korean release was basically sold out before it even came out, and if I'm not mistaken, only one short extra had English subs. At a glance, even Germany, France, and Italy seem to be getting more current non-Japanese Asian releases than the UK, and I'm slightly puzzled by that.

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by Rutger Lundgren

Right, I understand that. Still - and I'm talking in general here, I know that a smaller label like TWF doesn't have that many resources - I would expect that a good deal of those same hard core fans of Korean films would consider re-buying them in domestic bells and whistles editions. The vast majority of Korean releases are English friendly, but only for the main feature, and rarely for any extras. When talking about The Wailing in particular, that has to be one of the biggest Korean films of the past decade, and the US release is pretty poor when it comes to extras. Meanwhile, the Korean release was basically sold out before it even came out, and if I'm not mistaken, only one short extra had English subs. At a glance, even Germany, France, and Italy seem to be getting more current non-Japanese Asian releases than the UK, and I'm slightly puzzled by that.

Following up the point on Wailing, the studios who aren't aiming for collectors don't really put much time into extras either, as I'm sure (and they are) that the majority of their audience don't watch them and would rather pay less for a barebones. To be honest, I really don't think many people, even collectors, watch extras to a large degree. But having them on disc allows the distributor to keep a high price point on a title and aim at collectors. For example, when GEMINI was released in the US, one of the main extras didn't even have english subtitles and when I was asking about that on message boards nobody at all had picked up on that fact, as I assume that just nobody had even seen it.

Also, I think you may underestimate the size of the UK market. First off, english language rights can be expensive just because of the language having a universal 'reach', yet the UK isn't actually that big a territory, so it's complicated both ways. And that also leads into the fact that those other territories of Europe have an audience who may not understand english (and therefore may not be able to buy the Korean, US or see a pirated release) and need to buy the domestic release which may be cheaper to acquire as the territory's language is not widely spoken worldwide. Also, places like France and Germany can be very good for supporting independent distributors with government funds (from what I hear from similar size distributors to mine), yet the UK is very hard to get support, but also very hard to get films into cinemas (which I've compared same title releases of mine with France and German distributors and they seem to be doing a lot better in getting the film into cinemas).

There are just so many different factors in place, and Brexit and Covid aren't going to help anything get any better

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Rutger Lundgren

Right, I understand that. Still - and I'm talking in general here, I know that a smaller label like TWF doesn't have that many resources - I would expect that a good deal of those same hard core fans of Korean films would consider re-buying them in domestic bells and whistles editions. The vast majority of Korean releases are English friendly, but only for the main feature, and rarely for any extras. When talking about The Wailing in particular, that has to be one of the biggest Korean films of the past decade, and the US release is pretty poor when it comes to extras. Meanwhile, the Korean release was basically sold out before it even came out, and if I'm not mistaken, only one short extra had English subs. At a glance, even Germany, France, and Italy seem to be getting more current non-Japanese Asian releases than the UK, and I'm slightly puzzled by that.

A 40 minute documentary and commentary are subtitled I believe

And yeah UK cinemas can often suck, quite a few films are released to digital/disc without ever hitting cinemas, and a lot of films especially independents or world cinema will only ever hit 25-100 independent venues. Lots will be shut out of the chains, even when great films are being released. It’s not uncommon for films to only be released for a week either.

[floor pie]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

To be honest, I really don't think many people, even collectors, watch extras to a large degree.

I can attest to this personally. It's either right after watching the film (which isn't ideal really), or then you plan to watch them later, and as time passes by you lose interest and move on to the next one. (Besides my unwatched films pile, I have my unwatched extras pile, but I really just seem to forget about them.)

That being said, I'm probably more likely to watch the extras on an Asian film since the context is often needed or at least very helpful and interesting.

[Rutger Lundgren]

Originally Posted by CelestialAgent

A 40 minute documentary and commentary are subtitled I believe

I checked, and you're right, the one subtitled extra is much longer than I remember it being. I believe I actually watched that at the time, but I completely overlooked or forgot about the commentaries on the first disc (2 out of 3 have English subtitles)! At least now I know what I'll watch next.

Originally Posted by floor pie

I can attest to this personally. It's either right after watching the film (which isn't ideal really), or then you plan to watch them later, and as time passes by you lose interest and move on to the next one. (Besides my unwatched films pile, I have my unwatched extras pile, but I really just seem to forget about them.)

That being said, I'm probably more likely to watch the extras on an Asian film since the context is often needed or at least very helpful and interesting.

True, I often watch films with my girlfriend, and she's rarely interested in watching the extras afterward, so many of them just get added to the pile. I do find the time to watch those that really interest me, however, and they're an important factor in my purchasing decisions.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Rutger Lundgren

True, I often watch films with my girlfriend, and she's rarely interested in watching the extras afterward, so many of them just get added to the pile. I do find the time to watch those that really interest me, however, and they're an important factor in my purchasing decisions.

I have three months worth of discs stacked around the TV because I know I'll get round to the extras SOMETIME, but I want to prioritise watching new films at the moment. The issue is I find it hard to focus on extras for ages so I end up doing other stuff whilst watching them. But then I have to rewind them multiple times because I didn't process anything, so I should just watch them on their own. But it can be exhausting to watch it all in one go, spend 2 hours on the film, 2 hours on the commentary, an hour or so watching video extras, and in some cases half an hour reading a booklet. It's a lot and you could be watching 2 other films in that time.

[Rutger Lundgren]

I find commentaries perfect for washing dishes. Since our dishwasher broke down, the time I spend listening to podcasts and film commentaries has shot up dramatically.

[CelestialAgent]

Originally Posted by Rutger Lundgren

I find commentaries perfect for washing dishes. Since our dishwasher broke down, the time I spend listening to podcasts and film commentaries has shot up dramatically.

Yeah, TV isn't close enough to the sink for me to do that

[EvilAsh77]

Adam, now that you've released nearly everything by Tsukamoto (they're fantastic btw), could you focus more on other Japanese directors, such as Miike? Arrow haven't really mined his back catalogue completely - Izo has no physical release, Over Your Dead Body, Visitor Q, Imprint and so many more are still lacking a UK blu.

Please consider some odder horrors, such as Hiruko the Goblin, Uzumaki and Portrait of Hell. In fact, just lot at the releases history of something like Premier Asia.

Finally, any likelihood of Sono, such as Why Don't You Play in Hell, Suicide Club or Noriko's Dinner Table (those two could go as a boxset maybe?)?

Thanks for all the hard work. I have a growing collection of TWF releases, even if I griped about OCOTD... I think my top release is probably Gemini; great film, transfer and the slip is gorgeous.

[fatboyslim142]

Originally Posted by EvilAsh77

Adam, now that you've released nearly everything by Tsukamoto (they're fantastic btw), could you focus more on other Japanese directors, such as Miike? Arrow haven't really mined his back catalogue completely - Izo has no physical release, Over Your Dead Body, Visitor Q, Imprint and so many more are still lacking a UK blu.

Please consider some odder horrors, such as Hiruko the Goblin, Uzumaki and Portrait of Hell. In fact, just lot at the releases history of something like Premier Asia.

Finally, any likelihood of Sono, such as Why Don't You Play in Hell, Suicide Club or Noriko's Dinner Table (those two could go as a boxset maybe?)?

Thanks for all the hard work. I have a growing collection of TWF releases, even if I griped about OCOTD... I think my top release is probably Gemini; great film, transfer and the slip is gorgeous.

Visitor Q should ONLY be released in a boxset containing the COMPLETE Love Cinema series of which the Miike film is the final one of the series.

Love Cinema series:

1) Tokyo Trash Baby (Ryuichi Hiroki, 2000)
2) Amen, Somen and Rugger Men! (Mitsuhiro Mihara, 2000)
3) Enclosed Pain (Isao Yukisada, 2000)
4) Stake Out (Tetsuo Shinohara, 2001)
5) Gips (Akihiko Shiota, 2001)
6) Visitor Q (Takashi Miike, 2001)

[repulsed]

I'd like to see some Naoko Ogigami on BD in the UK or US. They are so hard to see.

Also, just picked up Hanagatami, Dangan Runner, A Taste of Tea and The Weird and Wonderful World of Ujicha! Third Window puts out such cool stuff!

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by EvilAsh77

Adam, now that you've released nearly everything by Tsukamoto (they're fantastic btw), could you focus more on other Japanese directors, such as Miike? Arrow haven't really mined his back catalogue completely - Izo has no physical release, Over Your Dead Body, Visitor Q, Imprint and so many more are still lacking a UK blu.

Please consider some odder horrors, such as Hiruko the Goblin, Uzumaki and Portrait of Hell. In fact, just lot at the releases history of something like Premier Asia.

Finally, any likelihood of Sono, such as Why Don't You Play in Hell, Suicide Club or Noriko's Dinner Table (those two could go as a boxset maybe?)?

Thanks for all the hard work. I have a growing collection of TWF releases, even if I griped about OCOTD... I think my top release is probably Gemini; great film, transfer and the slip is gorgeous.

Hiruko has been remastered and we're in talks with it.

Uzumaki, we were in talks with Toei about it, and it seems to have made them decide to make a new master, but only after raising funds from international sales and I don't think my offer was enough for them. though for sure it'll get released by various companies within the next year or two

Over your dead body - UK rights still held by Yume pictures as they released it on DVD only 5 year ago.

I'm sure Visitor Q and the other Miike titles will at some point get released by Arrow or someone like that.

For Sono, we tried to acquire WDYPIH years ago, but were quoted ludicrous price so couldn't afford it. Suicide and Norikos don't have HD masters

Japan is very behind the times with everything, and it's very hard to get decent materials on older titles. In the West, VOD has been a starting point for many studios to remaster their back catalogues, but since VOD has not taken off in Japan it's kept them from remastering a lot. Plus the way Japanese films are made (film committee system) can make it complicated for the rights of older films and because of that it's even harder to get things digitized. Also, there aren't really many places that do digitizations in Japan, and they're a LOT more expensive than overseas, yet the Japanese companies won't also allow their prints to go overseas to be scanned, so it's a bit of a catch 22.
The Tsukamoto films are a very rare case in which he owns the license for the majority of his titles, so easy to deal with working together with just 1 person to remaster and release, but the majority of japanese films are super complex and if not, then super expensive!

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by repulsed

I'd like to see some Naoko Ogigami on BD in the UK or US. They are so hard to see.

Also, just picked up Hanagatami, Dangan Runner, A Taste of Tea and The Weird and Wonderful World of Ujicha! Third Window puts out such cool stuff!

Tried to work on Yoshino's Barber Shop years ago as I love that film, but no HD materials were available unfortunately.
Her titles are really made for a DVD market. Blurays are expensive to put out, but can't see many people wanting to spend the £15+ on small, japanese, slice of life comedy/dramas. They just don't work on the format to even break even. Films like Dangan runner, taste of tea, etc take years and years to break even on all the costs involved, yet they're much easier to 'sell' than Ogigami films.

[Nielsb90]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

There are just so many different factors in place, and Brexit and Covid aren't going to help anything get any better

I know getting my hands your releases has become difficult. If I import from the UK I have to pay 25% of the value in taxes and an additional fee of £18 for each parcel with a value above £9. There are a few local sites that sell some UK boutique releases at a high price but they are few and far between.

For some reason it looks like amazon.es have a lot of UK releases in stock. I'm guessing they ship from Spain so I think I'll give them a try,

[thirdwindowfilms]

Originally Posted by Nielsb90

I know getting my hands your releases has become difficult. If I import from the UK I have to pay 25% of the value in taxes and an additional fee of £18 for each parcel with a value above £9. There are a few local sites that sell some UK boutique releases at a high price but they are few and far between.

For some reason it looks like amazon.es have a lot of UK releases in stock. I'm guessing they ship from Spain so I think I'll give them a try,

and remember we're only getting 50% from any sale as well, so it's not easy for us to get them out there and not easy for others to pick them up, so it's pretty hard all around

[Nielsb90]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

and remember we're only getting 50% from any sale as well, so it's not easy for us to get them out there and not easy for others to pick them up, so it's pretty hard all around

I can imagine

[repulsed]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

Tried to work on Yoshino's Barber Shop years ago as I love that film, but no HD materials were available unfortunately.
Her titles are really made for a DVD market. Blurays are expensive to put out, but can't see many people wanting to spend the £15+ on small, japanese, slice of life comedy/dramas. They just don't work on the format to even break even. Films like Dangan runner, taste of tea, etc take years and years to break even on all the costs involved, yet they're much easier to 'sell' than Ogigami films.

Unfortunate to hear but not exactly surprising. Honestly, DVD would not stop me from buying them. I guess for now I'll hope they show up on Criterion channel or something.

[gap]

Originally Posted by thirdwindowfilms

and remember we're only getting 50% from any sale as well, so it's not easy for us to get them out there and not easy for others to pick them up, so it's pretty hard all around

With which distributor do you get the biggest cut, Adam? If you are at liberty to say, that is.

I know I don't mind paying a little more if it means you get a larger slice of the take.

[gwailosforever]

Originally Posted by gap

With which distributor do you get the biggest cut, Adam? If you are at liberty to say, that is.

I know I don't mind paying a little more if it means you get a larger slice of the take.

I second that. Adam please let us know the best place to order your titles. I want to make sure you're getting as much of my money as possible.

[Vidov]

Really doesn´t matter if it is TWF, Arrow, Eureka, the Anime distributors, etc. who ever has to deal with japanese companies, a big THANK YOU.

Whoever visited Japan for a longer period knows it can get complicated.