Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

If that were to happen it wouldn't affect any of the discs that have already been made. The discs we are currently supporting will continue to work the same.

But anything that happens with digital can affect your existing collection. You've already given the studios and digital providers complete control. If they want to take away your movies, they can. If they want to insert ads into your collection, they can. If they want to charge you to access your collection, they can. None of that is possible with our existing discs.

Exactly, and the things I mentioned WILL be brought in.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Texan26

Again, more scenarios that have not happened. While blu-rays have ten minutes of ads and trailers before the movie that are sometimes not so simple to skip. While on Vudu, the movies I paid for start immediately.

I can make up scenarios also. In the future, new and future discs will only play on your player if you are connected to the internet. Forcing you to watch updated ads and giving the studio control. See how easy it is to make up scenarios.

Let's see.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by Texan26

Again, more scenarios that have not happened. While blu-rays have ten minutes of ads and trailers before the movie that are sometimes not so simple to skip. While on Vudu, the movies I paid for start immediately.

I can make up scenarios also. In the future, new and future discs will only play on your player if you are connected to the internet. Forcing you to watch updated ads and giving the studio control. See how easy it is to make up scenarios.

Digital is pointing directly to those scenarios though. People have already lost access to some titles and a lot of these services are using ads. It may take some time for these scenarios to be fully implemented but it's common sense thinking when we look at studio track records. Your theory about ads before Blu Rays being controlled by the studio is also already a reality. It's also not a stretch to believe that studios will make discs only playable when players are connected to the internet.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

It's also not a stretch to believe that studios will make discs only playable when players are connected to the internet.

Those discs would be just as bad as digital and I wouldn't buy them. But there is no possible way that anyone can add an internet requirement to the discs that have already been made.

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

Digital is pointing directly to those scenarios though. People have already lost access to some titles and a lot of these services are using ads. It may take some time for these scenarios to be fully implemented but it's common sense thinking when we look at studio track records. Your theory about ads before Blu Rays being controlled by the studio is also already a reality. It's also not a stretch to believe that studios will make discs only playable when players are connected to the internet.

Yes, Vudu puts ads on movies that you haven't paid for. If you like the movie, you can buy it without ads. I think that's actually a great idea. It lets you sample a movie you are not sure about. And yes, Hulu puts ads for a cheaper price. Of course, we are not going to get all this content for free. I pay for the ad free Hulu and it's completely worth it. Never going back to cable. Ad free Hulu cost the same or less as the rental price of the HD cable box.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Those discs would be just as bad as digital and I wouldn't buy them. But there is no possible way that anyone can add an internet requirement to the discs that have already been made.

I sympathize with your belief but technology is an ever growing entity. Studios will hit discs with internet verification the same way they are able to control digital. You are correct about your current discs. However newer machines could easily render those same discs unplayable without an internet connection. Hopefully for the sake of collectors and the masses the machines that work without an internet connection remain in circulation forever.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

I sympathize with your belief but technology is an ever growing entity. Studios will hit discs with internet verification the same way they are able to control digital.

I'm sure they'll try. It's just a question of whether or not sales will drop when that happens. In some ways the continued existence of DVDs is a good sign. If the studios can't even get most people to buy Blu-ray how will they convince people buy a physical format with an online requirement.

If a Blu-ray disc comes out with an online requirement then I expect the DVD version (which can't possibly have an online requirement) will far outsell it, that's the one I'll be buying.

Originally Posted by zodwriter

You are correct about your current discs. However newer machines could easily render those same discs unplayable without an internet connection. Hopefully for the sake of collectors the machines that work without an internet connection remain in circulation forever.

Hundreds of millions of Blu-ray players have been manufactured (and many times that for DVD players). I doubt it will ever be hard to find a working Blu-ray player that doesn't require an internet connection.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by Texan26

Yes, Vudu puts ads on movies that you haven't paid for. If you like the movie, you can buy it without ads. I think that's actually a great idea. It lets you sample a movie you are not sure about. And yes, Hulu puts ads for a cheaper price. Of course, we are not going to get all this content for free. I pay for the ad free Hulu and it's completely worth it. Never going back to cable. Ad free Hulu cost the same or less as the rental price of the HD cable box.

You've proved the point with your post. Paying extra to not have to watch commercials is the beginning of paying extra not to have to xyz. Studios are going to do whatever they need to do to increase profit margins. By getting people use to the idea of paying to not see ads, they open the door for people getting comfortable with the idea of paying to maintain their digital collections.

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Hundreds of millions of Blu-ray players have been manufactured (and many times that for DVD players). I doubt it will ever be hard to find a working Blu-ray player that doesn't require an internet connection.

But you're not going to be able to watch Star Wars Episode 12 on that old blu-ray player.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by Texan26

But you're not going to be able to watch Star Wars Episode 12 on that old blu-ray player.

Then I'll skip it. There are no movies or TV shows that can possibly make me support online DRM.

But considering current movies and TV shows continue to be released on a format that is over 20 years old (DVD) and they continue to outsell the later formats, I doubt any of the biggest blockbusters in the next few decades will come exclusively to formats with online DRM.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

Then I'll skip it. There are no movies or TV shows that can possibly make me support online DRM.

But considering current movies and TV shows continue to be released on a format that is over 20 years old (DVD) and they continue to outsell the later formats, I doubt any of the biggest blockbusters in the next few decades will come exclusively to formats with online DRM.

That's the trick isn't it? Studios will eventually force us into adopting some form of DRM to enjoy content. If new Blu Ray players force you to have an internet connection to watch they can do the same thing with new DVD players or at that point discontinue DVDs entirely. Disc and Digital will both be at the mercy of studios.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

That's the trick isn't it? Studios will eventually force us into adopting some form of DRM to enjoy content. If new Blu Ray players force you to have an internet connection to watch they can do the same thing with new DVD players or at that point discontinue DVDs entirely. Disc and Digital will both be at the mercy of studios.

Which would force me to rent.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

That's the trick isn't it? Studios will eventually force us into adopting some form of DRM to enjoy content. If new Blu Ray players force you to have an internet connection to watch they can do the same thing with new DVD players or at that point discontinue DVDs entirely. Disc and Digital will both be at the mercy of studios.

But all the studios aren't going to try to implement DRM in their discs simultaneously. If one studio tries it then then they will have lower sales. Other studios will see that and they won't follow suit. Any company can institute complete control over their products but if that doesn't make them more money then they won't do it.

I think there are far more people that wouldn't buy discs with online requirements than you think. Most of those people just aren't talking about it online.

[zodwriter]

This is why I feel like disc vs digital isn't really an argument anymore. Studios control both and can do whatever they want to maximize profits and keep the most control. It's easy to say well then I just won't buy movies anymore. The twist to it all is that our current collections we think we own are just extended leases. Haha! My Blu Ray player is connected to the internet and I notice every-time I watch a movie I see new trailers for movies that weren't around when the disc came out. It's proof that studios can alter existing discs as long as their is an internet connection.

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

But all the studios aren't going to try to implement DRM in their discs simultaneously. If one studio tries it then then they will have lower sales. Other studios will see that and they won't follow suit. Any company can institute complete control over their products but if that doesn't make them more money then they won't do it.

I think there are far more people that wouldn't buy discs with online requirements than you think. Most of those people just aren't talking about it online.

Just like people will stop buying less digital titles if they force ads on movies they have bought. So it's not going to happen.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by PenguinMaster

But all the studios aren't going to try to implement DRM in their discs simultaneously. If one studio tries it then then they will have lower sales. Other studios will see that and they won't follow suit. Any company can institute complete control over their products but if that doesn't make them more money then they won't do it.

I think there are far more people that wouldn't buy discs with online requirements than you think. Most of those people just aren't talking about it online.

That's just it though we are already being conditioned as a society to connect everything to the internet. Millions of people watch their Blu Rays and DVDs through video game systems and all of those are connected to the internet. Theoretically studios can make an internet connection mandatory for disc playback without even making it really well known because in-order to update firmware and stuff the players themselves tell you they need an internet connection.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by Texan26

Just like people will stop buying less digital titles if they force ads on movies they have bought. So it's not going to happen.

No people will just pay the fee to remove ads like they already are with HULU.

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

No people will just pay the fee to remove ads like they already are with HULU.

Hulu is a subscription service. Completely different. I don't pay to own the tv shows and movies on there. When hulu started is was with ads only. Then they added the ad free service later.

[zodwriter]

Originally Posted by Texan26

Hulu is a subscription service. Completely different. I don't pay to own the tv shows and movies on there.

That's not the point. Currently VUDU does not charge you a fee to maintain your collection or watch movies without ads. Subscription services are proving to be very successful digital platforms. With VUDU and other digital retailers this is something that will likely happen when studios decide they can make more money off of people with existing libraries. Especially if people have a bunch of movies in their collections that are no-longer being sold in the storefront. As it's been pointed out in this thread many times nobody is going to maintain your collections forever without some kind of cost to the account holder.

[Texan26]

Originally Posted by zodwriter

That's not the point. Currently VUDU does not charge you a fee to maintain your collection or watch movies without ads. Subscription services are proving to be very successful digital platforms. With VUDU and other digital retailers this is something that will likely happen when studios decide they can make more money off of people with existing libraries. Especially if people have a bunch of movies in their collections that are no-longer being sold in the storefront. As it's been pointed out in this thread many times nobody is going to maintain your collections forever without some kind of cost to the account holder.

Part of the revenue they make on current movie sales helps pay to maintain my collection and improve the Vudu site. Just like when Best Buy remodels or maintains their store, they're not going to charge me a fee to enter the store to help maintain and remodel the store. They get that money off the revenue they are currently making.