Physical & Digital EST: The Future of Home Video Discussion Thread

[Lee A Stewart]

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The line items included in the DEG chart are still valid even if it does not include everything that you would like it to include. Some people would say that video gaming should be included as it, too, is a home entertainment expenditure... and a very huge one at that. The physical media and EST figures still show how badly purchases are doing and that is what most of us here are interested in.

Including those things that you mentioned would just show that MUCH more money is spent on digital distribution methods than on physical distribution and demonstrate that purchased content has an even worse home entertainment spending share than what the DEG chart shows. Including this info would make the digital slice of the home entertainment expenditure pie far larger.

It is interesting to note that EST fell more, year-to-date, than discs did, 24.49% vs. 21.61%, even though EST brought in more revenue.

I wonder what boutique labels are bringing to the table. Guess we will never know.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I wonder what boutique labels are bringing to the table. Guess we will never know.

I don't really want to open that can of worms, but as the titles offered by the boutique labels are also sold by most of the major retailers they would then be included in the (Rentek?) retail purchase tracking system that DEG relies upon.

Also, no one knows conclusively if direct sales by the boutique labels are included in that tracking system or not, but it is probably safe to say that more people that bought the latest Little Rascals compilation did so from the likes of Amazon than directly from ClassicFlix's website.

Recently, I have begun to order directly from the boutique label's own website, but for most of my purchasing history I have bought those boutique titles from a major retailer and I would bet that's where most people purchase theirs. After all, where do the product links on blu-ray.com take us to? Amazon!

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

I don't really want to open that can of worms, but as the titles offered by the boutique labels are also sold by most of the major retailers they would then be included in the (Rentek?) retail purchase tracking system that DEG relies upon.

Also, no one knows conclusively if direct sales by the boutique labels are included in that tracking system or not, but it is probably safe to say that more people that bought the latest Little Rascals compilation did so from the likes of Amazon than directly from ClassicFlix's website.

Recently, I have begun to order directly from the boutique label's own website, but for most of my purchasing history I have bought those boutique titles from a major retailer and I would bet that's where most people purchase theirs. After all, where do the product links on blu-ray com take us to? Amazon!

I frequently order directly from Arrow, BFI, VS, 3DFA etc..

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Vilya

The line items included in the DEG chart are still valid even if it does not include everything that you would like it to include. Some people would say that video gaming should be included as it, too, is a home entertainment expenditure... and a very huge one at that. The physical media and EST figures still show how badly purchases are doing and that is what most of us here are interested in.

Including those things that you mentioned would just show that MUCH more money is spent on digital distribution methods than on physical distribution and demonstrate that purchased content has an even worse home entertainment spending share than what the DEG chart shows. Including this info would make the digital slice of the home entertainment expenditure pie far larger.

It is interesting to note that EST fell more, year-to-date, than discs did, 24.49% vs. 21.61%, even though EST brought in more revenue.

We shouldn’t forget circumstances have pretty much dictated at least half of the year and we also had severe shipping delays.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I frequently order directly from Arrow, BFI, VS, 3DFA etc..

The DEG Reports do not show any sales outside of North America. Once a year the MPA produces the Theatrical Home Entertainment Market Environment (THEME) Report which shows world wide cumulative physical media and digital sales.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Including those things that you mentioned would just show that MUCH more money is spent on digital distribution methods than on physical distribution and demonstrate that purchased content has an even worse home entertainment spending share than what the DEG chart shows. Including this info would make the digital slice of the home entertainment expenditure pie far larger.

If you look at the global chart that I linked you will see purchased content has never been but a small part of total spend since 2012.

Anyway, hope the force in charge of your health will prove to be good to you.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

If you look at the global chart that I linked you will see purchased content has never been but a small part of total spend since 2012.

Anyway, hope the force in charge of your health will prove to be good to you.

Purchased home video content has always been a small part of total home entertainment expenditures, especially when you factor pay TV into it and still smaller if you add in video gaming, but now it is approaching microscopic.

Thank you. I thought I had to be dead before my body was donated to science.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

We shouldn’t forget circumstances have pretty much dictated at least half of the year and we also had severe shipping delays.

None of that should have hurt EST, though, yet it fell even more than discs did. The last two years are definitely atypical years, but what the lasting impact will be in terms of consumer behavior remains to be seen.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Vilya

None of that should have hurt EST, though, yet it fell even more than discs did. The last two years are definitely atypical years, but what the lasting impact will be in terms of consumer behavior remains to be seen.

IMO - 2022 will be the acid test year for theaterical and for content sales. The excuse of "there are no or few Hollywood Blockbusters" will have dissappeared. We will see if consumer lifestyles have permanently changed due to the pandemic.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Vilya

Should I include my electric bill as part of my home entertainment spending? I am not watching anything without it, either.

The figure shown for SVOD is the amount of money people spent for SVOD. It does not, and it should not, include what we are paying for internet service anymore than it should include what we spend for electric service.

What we spend on the internet is a utility expenditure just like with our phone, power, water & sewer utilities.

I was ridiculing DEG definition of home entertainment expenditures when they limit their spreadsheet tabulation to only physical EST, Rental (physical/digital), and Digital (EST/VoD, and SvoD). Ignoring everything else that most people utilize to call Svod 80% of the marketplace.

So yes if one does a complete home entertainment spending workup its does factor in everything you use to allow for some form of home entertainment. You can't watch content using nothing. The marketplace watch needs to be paying attention on how everything functions so they can forecast home entertainment trends with consumers.

[Vilya]

I just want to add that physical therapy is kicking my butt.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

IMO - 2022 will be the acid test year for theaterical and for content sales. The excuse of "there are no or few Hollywood Blockbusters" will have dissappeared. We will see if consumer lifestyles have permanently changed due to the pandemic.

Autumn has been much better for theatrical and Q3 has been better for disc.

We know that films can make money again (theatrical) although budgets may need to be decreased slightly. They will work this all out, they always do.

People will always go to the flicks.

[Lee A Stewart]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Autumn has been much better for theatrical and Q3 has been better for disc.

How do you consider a drop of 21.61% in Q3 2021 disc sales better?

We know that films can make money again (theatrical) although budgets may need to be decreased slightly. They will work this all out, they always do.

People will always go to the flicks.

Two numbers to keep in mind: $42.2B and $11.4B. The first is WW BO for 2019 while the second is Domestic (NA) BO 2019.

[djobitwan7]

Originally Posted by djobitwan7

Just out of curiosity......How did you make a request for another disc that was messed up? Is there a specific phone number or e-mail address that you know or had to dig around to get to where you can get the right people at each distributor/company? I'd love to know for future reference.

As an add-on question......How did you know certain scenes or anything was missing from said movies? I consider myself, knowledge wise, better than the average movie watcher, but by no means do I know if 30 seconds was missing or what-not. My thought process goes, is it just this specific disc that is missing materiel (scenes) and why is it different compared to all other discs sent out to Best Buy, Amazon and all others?

Hmmm....so as an example.....Shout Factory released the original Halloween on UHD and there were scenes when they reshot it for TV. They put those on the regular Blu-ray, but not the UHD one. Is that something they would add to it and I would get a new UHD because I asked for it?

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Digital is perfect for the powers that be. They want to control our lives, what we eat, what we watch, when we watch it, how much we watch it, what we do in our spare time, when we exercise, when we work, when we finish, when we die.

Digital health apps, keep fit apps on TVs and the banning of fast food ads before 9pm is just the start of a dictatorship where digital is the enabler to control all our lives.

Deleting and altering content to suit the current situation is a dream for them.

Their point of entry? Climate carbon points, rations.

This is really complete nonsense. Who are "the powers that be"? Streaming does not control when you watch it, how much you watch it, what you do in your spare time or anything else that you've mentioned. No one is forced to use a digital exercise app and even if one does, the companies it comes from have absolutely nothing to do with government control of our lives.

There may well be dictatorships in our future, but if there is, it has absolutely nothing to do with Disney streaming "The Mandarlorian" or owning all the Marvel movies or Apple TV providing "Fitch" or Netflix running "The Queen's Gambit". Nothing. With the possible exception of people who do nothing but watching dumb TV may be those who are most willing to support such a dictatorship.

The masses have accepted streaming because for most people, it makes far more sense than buying physical media. For the price of 2-3 Blu-rays, one can have a streaming service with hundreds or even thousands of movies and TV shows for a year. The same applies to music streaming services. I still have 1000 CD's and LP's in my living room, but why buy albums when you can stream just about everything every released? And that's what most young people are doing. They think (and probably rightfully so) that we're nuts.

There is no way I would ever consider spending the $$$ to buy any of the series on Netflix or AppleTV. But for $7 a month? Sure.

As of last March, Disney+ had 100 million subscribers, generating about $8.4 billion a year. The market has spoken. Meanwhile, in the U.S., discs were an $11 billion business in 2009 and was less than $2.5 billion in 2020. And 2021 is running 30% behind last year. Blu-ray revenue is 45% behind last year.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

As of last March, Disney+ had 100 million subscribers, generating about $8.4 billion a year. The market has spoken. Meanwhile, in the U.S., discs were an $11 billion business in 2009 and was less than $2.5 billion in 2020. And 2021 is running 30% behind last year. Blu-ray revenue is 45% behind last year.

Can't use 2020 0r 2021 as real trend indicators. Since a lot of people were stuck work at home or not working much, also of lately stores having difficulty getting adequate yields from physical media distributors because of a lack of truck drivers across the USA. There are several titles we all wanted this last year and stores/online were always running out. We experienced several times the only way you get something was to go online and order it. So a good part of 2021 was only certain titles at stores at all. Warner media was constantly selling out of extended versions of Zach Snyders DC film titles as a example.
Where the market really shifted was the end of March 2020 when the last exciting deals was with Target selling all those 4K versions of StarWars titles (buy 2 get one free). Fortunately for us there were some real good content for sale in Late Summer/Fall of 2020 that everyone got.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

This is really complete nonsense. Who are "the powers that be"? Streaming does not control when you watch it, how much you watch it, what you do in your spare time or anything else that you've mentioned. No one is forced to use a digital exercise app and even if one does, the companies it comes from have absolutely nothing to do with government control of our lives.

There may well be dictatorships in our future, but if there is, it has absolutely nothing to do with Disney streaming "The Mandarlorian" or owning all the Marvel movies or Apple TV providing "Fitch" or Netflix running "The Queen's Gambit". Nothing. With the possible exception of people who do nothing but watching dumb TV may be those who are most willing to support such a dictatorship.

The masses have accepted streaming because for most people, it makes far more sense than buying physical media. For the price of 2-3 Blu-rays, one can have a streaming service with hundreds or even thousands of movies and TV shows for a year. The same applies to music streaming services. I still have 1000 CD's and LP's in my living room, but why buy albums when you can stream just about everything every released? And that's what most young people are doing. They think (and probably rightfully so) that we're nuts.

There is no way I would ever consider spending the $$$ to buy any of the series on Netflix or AppleTV. But for $7 a month? Sure.

As of last March, Disney+ had 100 million subscribers, generating about $8.4 billion a year. The market has spoken. Meanwhile, in the U.S., discs were an $11 billion business in 2009 and was less than $2.5 billion in 2020. And 2021 is running 30% behind last year. Blu-ray revenue is 45% behind last year.

It’s Zoett! I thought Blu-ray was meant to be dead by now? Aren’t you the guy who predicted mainstream releases wouldn’t be available For like, seven or eight years running?

Complete nonsense.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

How do you consider a drop of 21.61% in Q3 2021 disc sales better?



Two numbers to keep in mind: $42.2B and $11.4B. The first is WW BO for 2019 while the second is Domestic (NA) BO 2019.

Yeah, a full year of blockbuster releases versus partial releases.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

It’s Zoett!

I find it quite that many post in this thread sound just like post from the days of LaserDisc. Some here are like a defective 33⅓ LP repeating the same phrase over and over. They seem incapable of grasping the fact that enthusiast come here for info about disc that offers the best sound and pictures available for home use.

Blu-ray.COM does have a section for Digital Movies for those that prefer that method of viewing.