2021 Sony Master Series A90J (55", 65" and 83") [Owners' & Discussion Thread]

[NeilZ]

Sam you have no idea what you're talking about. The difference between gradient preferred vs brightness preferred is roughly within 100 nits range. Color temperature changes make a much more significant difference. When you put everything bright in inaccurate mode the tv hits 1400 almost.

Early on D-nice did comparisons between gradient and brightness back when he only hit 780 in gradient. The brightness setting I don't remember the exact number but was around the 870 range, but definitely under 900. With custom expert setup you do not get 1060 nits in dolby bright.

Also no you can't really take those small measurements on test patterns. Jrref explained it at some point during the livestream a few weeks ago.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

Sam you have no idea what you're talking about. The difference between gradient preferred vs brightness preferred is roughly within 100 nits range. Color temperature changes make a much more significant difference. When you put everything bright in inaccurate mode the tv hits 1400 almost.

Early on D-nice did comparisons between gradient and brightness back when he only hit 780 in gradient. The brightness setting I don't remember the exact number but was around the 870 range, but definitely under 900. With custom expert setup you do not get 1060 nits in dolby bright.

Also no you can't really take those small measurements on test patterns. Jrref explained it at some point during the livestream a few weeks ago.

Wow. It’s amazing how good you are at ignoring facts:

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/pict...eak-brightness

Lol. Now you really have no idea what you’re talking about. Even Jrref is saying is this post here that 2% pattern readings are possible:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/202...184217/page-12

Here’s Dnice measuring 2, 5, and 10% patterns:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/202.../post-60552387

DoVi Bright is its own picture mode. Custom expert is a separate one for HDR10 content. You can’t have DoVi custom expert as a picture mode, it doesn’t exist. Also those 1060 nits were measured after six hours of use. Hardly a good indicative on how the TV will perform on the long run. Hence why they always recommend a break-in period before measuring and calibrating it. This you can’t use that to make conclusions on how the TV will behave or perform.

Everything you post now is nonsense lol.

[NeilZ]

You sure know how to behave like a fop. Yes Dolby bright/dark replaces custom, but expert is still applicable. I made an error in my message, but the point stands that 1060nits is abnormally high and not reachable in test patterns. This is in line with actual content delivering higher readings on specular highlights.

I know ratings does it. Jrref had explained the complications of getting a proper reading on tiny windows in the live stream. Otherwise he would have done it too. Dnice says he ran 2% to 10% but same results which shows the challenge of getting 2% accurately, how ratings does it is beyond me, but they do get it right.

All your blabbering trying to get childish gotcha moments all for what? Show me a test pattern reading of Dolby bright that goes even over 900 nits. 6 hours means break in hadn’t even occurred which just says post break in he might even reach 1100 in bright mode in actual content. This conflicts with your goal of trying to knock down the capabilities of this display.

[ray0414]

Anyone that is interested in the new A90J that isn't a 100% stickler for accuracy... My buddy finally put his meter on his A90J. For daytime boosts, this ol
ed does have quite a bit of untapped horsepower under the hood for when the situation arises. A good example is having friends over the in the daytime and need that brightness.

CUSTOM PRO 1 MODE:

brightness preferred: 850 nits
+ ACE on Medium: 950 nits
+ACE on high: 1000 nits.

1 glorious thing about this tv, is since it does not use a white subpixel trick that would wash out the colors, you get extremely vibrant/rich colors when using the daytime boosters.

[NeilZ]

I agree. This tv is a bright beast. Oled used to struggle on this front, not anymore.

[ray0414]

I have a rental 55A90J coming from Amazon between now and Wednesday. Bezos got insanely rich during the pandemic so I have no issue renting this unit directly from Amazon.

Anywho. I'm throwing the A90J into a cage with my 55C8. Expecting a blood bath and it's all going on my YouTube channel. I have no plans to get rid of the C8 it's a fine TV and does well. But my 82Q90R is already on the block with an 83A90J destined to replace it. Can't wait to get my paws on that A90J.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

You sure know how to behave like a fop. Yes Dolby bright/dark replaces custom, but expert is still applicable. I made an error in my message, but the point stands that 1060nits is abnormally high and not reachable in test patterns. This is in line with actual content delivering higher readings on specular highlights.

I know ratings does it. Jrref had explained the complications of getting a proper reading on tiny windows in the live stream. Otherwise he would have done it too. Dnice says he ran 2% to 10% but same results which shows the challenge of getting 2% accurately, how ratings does it is beyond me, but they do get it right.

All your blabbering trying to get childish gotcha moments all for what? Show me a test pattern reading of Dolby bright that goes even over 900 nits. 6 hours means break in hadn’t even occurred which just says post break in he might even reach 1100 in bright mode in actual content. This conflicts with your goal of trying to knock down the capabilities of this display.

Geez, it only took me repeating the same thing three times before you accepted it.

I’m not trying to get any gotcha moments, lol. I’m just trying to show that anyone that cares about accuracy will not be able to basically get anything significant over 800 nits. It is true that user got 1060 nits, but he got it using a non-calibrated, non-broken-in unit in DoVi Bright with Brightness preferred. So the measurement is not even relevant in the first place.

Also, that was one person. Can others replicate that after the break-in period and calibration? Some people got a bit more brightness after the break-in period, but that was using gradient preferred in an HDR10 pic mode, not DoVi in Brightness preferred. And either way, they lost brightness after calibrating it. And one tone-mapping mode will behave very differently than the other one, so you can’t just assume the same thing will happen with the other tone mapping options. Also, other users (like Dnice) did not get 900 nits in DoVi Brightness preferred, but he had done the break-in period, and he had calibrated it as well. So, can the 1060 nits be replicated after calibration and the break-in period? Seems like the answer is no.

And what is the actual measurement of real-world content in accurate settings (in gradient preferred which is what matters for accuracy)? We’re still waiting for that.

You’re basically just speculating about readings in accurate settings using that single measurement that has nothing to do with the accurate settings at all. I will admit there is the possibility the panel might be brighter with real-world content vs test patterns, but until then, you can’t say for certain that the TV will reach high 800s / low 900s in accurate settings like you were saying, much less after calibration. Saying that is basically untrue until someone verifies it, and no one has verified it, again, unlike you said they had.

You should really verify and check your sources before you post any statements here. You contradicted yourself about the 2% patterns, first citing Rtings measurements on a 2% window (post), then saying that readings with 2% patterns are not possible (post), then admitting that they are possible (post). Do you even pay attention to what you write?

You simply saw one random measurement in a completely different, non-accurate, tone mapping option, in a non-accurate picture mode, without any calibration, and no break-in period at all, and you took that and said the TV can reach ~900 nits in accurate settings when no one has even done any such measurements. And you simply used it because it fits the narrative you’re trying so hard to push, that the TV is brighter than it actually is as far accuracy goes. It’s pure speculation (at best) and borderline lying.

We’re still waiting for those actual results, and you keep posting random, non-accurate statements about the TV, and providing nonsensical excuses (and sometimes completely inaccurate ones as well) when someone challenges such statements. All that does is confuse and misinform other users who might be interested in the TV and come here for information.

[NeilZ]

Rarely have I seen so many words written to basically say so little. You're right on one thing, the 1060 nits is not fully accurate, but the point still stands that that was abnormally high. Dnice had done measurements in both brightness proffered and gradient preferred, and dolby bright and dolby dark, and the numbers at 10% windows don't come anywhere close to that.

Those measurements alone support the theory by jrref, that this tv displays specular highlights brighter in actual content.

I actually have the tv, and based on that, I have the opinion that the regular users who did their own measurements appeared credible (including 1060 nits in dolby bright). You make it seem impossible for this tv to outdo 825 nits in fully accurate modes because you haven't seen it for yourself.

Why don't you just see the tv for yourself and then you'll have an opinion that's actually based on experience with the set.

Alternatively just wait for Rtings to do their breakdown, it will almost certainly reflect what everyone else already knows, and that is that the 2% window is much brighter than 825 nits.

[samlop10]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

Rarely have I seen so many words written to basically say so little. You're right on one thing, the 1060 nits is not fully accurate, but the point still stands that that was abnormally high. Dnice had done measurements in both brightness proffered and gradient preferred, and dolby bright and dolby dark, and the numbers at 10% windows don't come anywhere close to that.

Those measurements alone support the theory by jrref, that this tv displays specular highlights brighter in actual content.

I actually have the tv, and based on that, I have the opinion that the regular users who did their own measurements appeared credible (including 1060 nits in dolby bright). You make it seem impossible for this tv to outdo 825 nits in fully accurate modes because you haven't seen it for yourself.

Why don't you just see the tv for yourself and then you'll have an opinion that's actually based on experience with the set.

Alternatively just wait for Rtings to do their breakdown, it will almost certainly reflect what everyone else already knows, and that is that the 2% window is much brighter than 825 nits.

Again, Dnice got those numbers after calibration and break-in period. Nowhere near the same circumstances as what that guy got when he measured the 1060nits (not to mention they’re not even using the same equipment to take measurements). So, so far that behavior of the TV is still just that, a theory.

It wouldn’t make sense to watch some HDR content and just think that it must reach a certain brightness because it looks bright. There’s a reason why calibration isn’t done with the naked eye. It’s not accurate. And I already told you I’ve already checked out the TV. But you’ve decided to ignore that as well, just like you’ve ignored most of the facts posted here.

Bolded part doesn’t even make sense at all if that theory about the TVs behavior is correct in the first place like you claim it is (2% window is still a pattern), nor would it align with the results others have gotten when they’ve measured 2, 5, and 10% window patterns (just like almost everything that you’ve posted so far doesn’t make sense either). You just keep contradicting yourself.

I’m definitely waiting for Rtings review. But I’m done wasting my time trying to discuss this with you. You contradict yourself, you post wrong and/or nonsensical information, and you ignore most of the facts posted here. I feel like I’m arguing with a parrot. Hopefully people will be smart enough to not believe what you post here since almost nothing of what you have posted here is true or correct. But I’m done wasting my time with you. Your account is not even two months old. That should have given me a clue that perhaps it was pointless trying to have a sensible discussion with you.

[NeilZ]

Sam another mountain of blabber all to make a personal statement against me instead of arguing on the original point of whether this tv provides more brightness than the initial readings.

If your eye is trained you can see the difference in brightness from a certain point, in apl and specular highlights. We already know the apl has been very much boosted as that's in the current readings, but specular highlights would indicate that the boost is more moderate, but that's the point that I'm arguing is wrong. I'm mainly an lcd user, so I always found oled's too dim. Oled's made up for the lack of brightness with incredible contrast thanks to the pure blacks. You'd get a very nice hdr experience in the dark, but the perceived brightness didn't feel outstanding the way the A90J is able to display hdr.

Oled's had lots of other issues, abl, poor near black performance, tinting, motion handling, moderate burn in risk over time etc. All of this is either fully or near fully resolved on the A90J, but the brightness boost is frankly the most spectacular aspect in this new tv. You chose to harp on the initial readings indicating the tv does 800 range peaks in calibrated despite users including jrref telling us that doesn't paint the whole picture.

The specular highlights on this set are like laser beams, and this happens despite the apl being so noticeably brighter too, you can see it on any side by side comparison to previous year oleds. The only trick you can do to fake better specular highlights is what Panasonic did with the white subpixel, but Sony isn't doing that, and we're still getting punchier specular highlights.

Wait for Rtings and it will be settled since I know they do have a method of measuring 2% properly. You will find the results to be exactly as pointed out, upper 800's to 900's. In all likely even up to the mid 900's.

[tama]

Vincent Teoh put out his in depth review for LGs G1. But in the comment section he responded to users that due to likely Brexit and other reasons we may not.see his thoughts on the A90J for a while.

I did read Rtgs is working currently on there A90J review. I didn't see or read on timeliness for that review though.

[samlop10]

The drama continues:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/202.../post-60616267

Since the dummy YouTuber wants to add himself to a situation that has/had nothing to do with him, there will be no info until after he posts his A90J review and comparision to whatever 2021 unit he decides on. Sorry folks, he is now the holdup.

[tama]

I just dont get it. They're not in direct competition with each other. Ones a technical reviewer of A/V hardware in the U.K. and on youtube. The other is a skilled informative calibrator in the U.S. that will help calibrate your hardware.

And one can't say it's all D-Nice as Vincent engages and eggs it on as well. It would be nice it both would be professional and let it go. Both are well respected.

[samlop10]

Yeah idk... I don’t take it too seriously since it’s like nerds throwing shade at each other lol (fyi, I consider myself a nerd too).

I do find it funny that D-nice is basically saying Vincent is plagiarizing even though that’s not even a thing with calibrations.

[NeilZ]

It’s real petty of dnice in my opinion. Not sure why he’d care so much, they don’t even have the same audience.

[tcripe]

Are we really talking about youtuber drama right now?

[lgans316]

Don't give a toss about test patterns to measure peak brightness. As long as the TV does it right on real world contents I am more than happy with that. Even a small amount of nits could come out well on an OLED.

Thankfully I haven't visited the A90J thread @ AVS for a while as day by day it was going downhill.

[NeilZ]

Yeah a couple guys got lemons and the threads kind of got derailed into a panic.

[ThulsaMike88]

Originally Posted by samlop10

The drama continues:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/202.../post-60616267

D-Nice's posts are starting to reek of sour grapes... and why? Vincent didn't even mention his name in his video, it was like a general statement. Silly.

[dontpokethebear3893]

Originally Posted by samlop10

The drama continues:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/202.../post-60616267

I would spread this as little as possible IMO. I respect the work of both of them and drama like this hurts the community. I try to ignore it and wouldn't share it on other sites. It hurts both of their reputations and thus hurts all of us considering how valuable they both are to informing us on our favorite subject.